Windows Vista 32-bit vs 64-bit
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CleaKO wrote:
Does VM cost money
Depends on what host you go for. Virtual PC doesn't VM does. I've only got experience with VMWare but it's just released a feature called Unity where the VM windows appear on your main desktop (with a small icon to show they're virtualised.
CleaKO wrote:
version of XP that I install?
Legally you're meant to have a license for whatever OS you install inside it. You'd also get all the perks of VM development (just based on CG's experience back up stuff), such as snapshots etc.
I doubt it. If it isn't intuitive then we need to fix it. - Chris Maunder
Ed.Poore wrote:
I've only got experience with VMWare but it's just released a feature called Unity where the VM windows appear on your main desktop (with a small icon to show they're virtualised.
Is this VMware for Macs you're talking about, or'd they finally port it to the PC version?
Today's lesson is brought to you by the word "niggardly". Remember kids, don't attribute to racism what can be explained by Scandinavian language roots. -- Robert Royall
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Do you play games and do all of the standard home user things like use Office, Quicken, photo editing etc.?
CleaKO
"Now, a man would have opened both gates, driven through and not bothered to close either gate." - Marc Clifton (The Lounge)
I do all of those things on a 64 bit version and have not had any problems for more than a year. They are NOT issues.
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All I do is work (no games) and I've found that 64-bit Vista is like a totally different OS than 32-bit. I really love it. My only complaint is that there's not support for Visual Studio 6.0 and some of the older applications. There may be hacks for that and if so I hope someone shares them here. I gotta say though that in case of XP and Vista I love 64 over 32 and I can tell a big difference.
"there's not support for Visual Studio 6.0 and some of the older applications" That's not true. There is a compatibility mode that you can choose to work with in Vista. It allows you to run any application in it's native environment, all the way back to Windows 95. I haven't found ANYTHING that I cannot run yet in the Vista 64 bit environment.
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My work wont even allow a 64-bit VPN install/connection so I dont get the benefit of experiencing strange connection issues. I am torn here, if I decide to go with a 64-bit desktop then I will have to do all of my login from home work on the laptop. I guess I can then get a docking station and that would alleviate most of those issues :).
CleaKO
"Now, a man would have opened both gates, driven through and not bothered to close either gate." - Marc Clifton (The Lounge)
Seems silly to not allow installation on 64 bit machine. I can't think of a single security issue that is created by moving to a broader word length. Does the idiot who made the rule have a reason? Can you challenge it?
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It really depeneds on what you want, on my home pc I like to develop\ play games and do almost everthing, When I upgraded my PC I thought "Hey, why dont I just use 64bit XP", the first few weeks were good, but then I found that some of those little apps you have just dont want to work, ok, well lets see if there is a 64bit version, on dear there is not. I then came to install itunes, itunes would not install on 64bit XP. I just came to furstrated and ended up putting on 32bit XP, problems solved, and virtual pc installed. Maybe vista is different, but to be honest I would not touch vista with a 10FT pole, to many bad exp.
"itunes would not install on 64bit XP. hmmm. Runs fine on my Vista x64.
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I noticed that 64-bit Video Card drivers sometimes get a delayed released compared to 32-bit ones. So if gaming is your deal, I wouldn't recommend it as you might not benefit from the most current video drivers. Aside from that, I haven't seen any issues with my XP 64-bit, Also didn't notice any real performance improvement.
"I noticed that 64-bit Video Card drivers sometimes get a delayed released compared to 32-bit ones. So if gaming is your deal, I wouldn't recommend it as you might not benefit from the most current video drivers." Maybe if you have a card from an obscure vendor. Both Nvidia and ATI release 64 bit drivers at the same time as the 32 bit driversw. NO exceptions.
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VPN is the one thing I've really heard of problems with on 64-bit. Some older devices may have problems, but practically any major brand device built since Vista launch will have both 32-bit and 64-bit drivers. If you need it for work, you are probably stuck with 32-bit for support, though. (Put your old 32-bit XP image w/VPN in a VM?)
kloder wrote:
VPN is the one thing I've really heard of problems with on 64-bit. Some older devices may have problems
Agreed. Some older firewalls may not support a 64 bit VPN client. Only becuase the vendor won't spend the money to write them, not because the OS in not capable. That's exactly why any decent IT department spends the extra dollars on the good brand name equipment, such as Sonicwall. They will go back and write new drivers for older hardware. Your Aguard or Truewall device (made up names) most certainly wont and you got what you paid for, not future support. Might have saved a few hundred up front, but now you have to spend the money all over again to make it work again.
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Been running it for about a year. It's OK. No real problems to speak of. But I don't really see any speed improvement. (4 gig RAM). In fact, I think VS2008 runs kind of slow - but I have only run this version ov VS on my 64 bit system so I have nothing to compare it to. Back when I was using 32 bit Vista I had VS2003. So who knows? Maybe VS2008 is just slow for everybody. There is not a lot of applications out there that actually take advantage of the 64 bit OS (at least, not that I use). My biggest gripe: there is no Adobe Flash for 64 bit Internet Explorer. So when using 64 bit IE, many web sites do not display properly (e.g. Yahoo mail). "No problem", says I, "I'll just use 32 bit IE" (it's included in the OS). I mean, there is no speed difference that I can detect between the 2 versions when surfing or downloading. So who cares? Well....Vista cares. I have found no way to change the default internet app from 64 bit to 32 bit IE. So yes, when I want to surf the web I can click my shortcut to 32 bit IE and there are no problems. But anytime Vista opens a default web browser it always opens 64 bit IE. This is not a major gripe. I'd say I curse this problem only maybe a once a week. I would not reccomend upgrading just for the sake of upgrading. From what I've read, you'll be better off just waiting a few months and going Windows 7. But if your only choice is Vista 64 - don't be afraid of it. It's just as good and just as bad as it's 32 bit cousin.
Figmo2 wrote:
My biggest gripe: there is no Adobe Flash for 64 bit Internet Explorer.
I have to agree. I am starting to think that Adobe is just being a jerk and refusing to play. They seem to be the only holdout that I can find. I am however seeing a lot of sites switching to Silverlight and you DO have x64 support there.
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Ed.Poore wrote:
I've only got experience with VMWare but it's just released a feature called Unity where the VM windows appear on your main desktop (with a small icon to show they're virtualised.
Is this VMware for Macs you're talking about, or'd they finally port it to the PC version?
Today's lesson is brought to you by the word "niggardly". Remember kids, don't attribute to racism what can be explained by Scandinavian language roots. -- Robert Royall
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Seems silly to not allow installation on 64 bit machine. I can't think of a single security issue that is created by moving to a broader word length. Does the idiot who made the rule have a reason? Can you challenge it?
I might just be a licensing issue, I have no idea honestly why or who made that decision.
CleaKO
"Now, a man would have opened both gates, driven through and not bothered to close either gate." - Marc Clifton (The Lounge)
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Been running it for about a year. It's OK. No real problems to speak of. But I don't really see any speed improvement. (4 gig RAM). In fact, I think VS2008 runs kind of slow - but I have only run this version ov VS on my 64 bit system so I have nothing to compare it to. Back when I was using 32 bit Vista I had VS2003. So who knows? Maybe VS2008 is just slow for everybody. There is not a lot of applications out there that actually take advantage of the 64 bit OS (at least, not that I use). My biggest gripe: there is no Adobe Flash for 64 bit Internet Explorer. So when using 64 bit IE, many web sites do not display properly (e.g. Yahoo mail). "No problem", says I, "I'll just use 32 bit IE" (it's included in the OS). I mean, there is no speed difference that I can detect between the 2 versions when surfing or downloading. So who cares? Well....Vista cares. I have found no way to change the default internet app from 64 bit to 32 bit IE. So yes, when I want to surf the web I can click my shortcut to 32 bit IE and there are no problems. But anytime Vista opens a default web browser it always opens 64 bit IE. This is not a major gripe. I'd say I curse this problem only maybe a once a week. I would not reccomend upgrading just for the sake of upgrading. From what I've read, you'll be better off just waiting a few months and going Windows 7. But if your only choice is Vista 64 - don't be afraid of it. It's just as good and just as bad as it's 32 bit cousin.
I dont think much will change hardware wise from Vista to Windows 7 so I dont know if there is any reason not to go ahead and make the leap other than the fact that I will need to buy the Windows 7 OS when it comes out rather than just getting the OEM version on the machine. I will need to upgrade my laptop anyway to Windows 7 to hopefully fix the few bugs I have had issues with so far in Vista.
CleaKO
"Now, a man would have opened both gates, driven through and not bothered to close either gate." - Marc Clifton (The Lounge)
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My work wont even allow a 64-bit VPN install/connection so I dont get the benefit of experiencing strange connection issues. I am torn here, if I decide to go with a 64-bit desktop then I will have to do all of my login from home work on the laptop. I guess I can then get a docking station and that would alleviate most of those issues :).
CleaKO
"Now, a man would have opened both gates, driven through and not bothered to close either gate." - Marc Clifton (The Lounge)
We use the old Cisco VPN Client, and Cisco refuses to offer a 64-bit version for Windows (they do have one for Linux). If your employer uses Cisco VPN, then maybe they don't allow it because it isn't an option. Would love to have 64-bit Vista at home. It seems silly to me to have 64-bit processors and not be able to take advantage of them. But since I often work from home through VPN, I did't install V64 at home when I had the chance. I have it on my machine here at work and have no problems at all, even with VB6.
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Figmo2 wrote:
My biggest gripe: there is no Adobe Flash for 64 bit Internet Explorer.
I have to agree. I am starting to think that Adobe is just being a jerk and refusing to play. They seem to be the only holdout that I can find. I am however seeing a lot of sites switching to Silverlight and you DO have x64 support there.
I did see a press release a couple of months ago saying that Adobe was starting work on 64 bit flash. But who knows how long it will take, and even if that division will survive any shrinkage due to the global economy. I get the impression that it's just on their "one of these days" TODO list.
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"I noticed that 64-bit Video Card drivers sometimes get a delayed released compared to 32-bit ones. So if gaming is your deal, I wouldn't recommend it as you might not benefit from the most current video drivers." Maybe if you have a card from an obscure vendor. Both Nvidia and ATI release 64 bit drivers at the same time as the 32 bit driversw. NO exceptions.
Last year I had this issue with Nvidia drivers. The latest releases have been published together but last year they didn't. Until recently in Nvidia site the Windows XP 64 drivers were not up to date. Or maybe I just missed something.
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I did see a press release a couple of months ago saying that Adobe was starting work on 64 bit flash. But who knows how long it will take, and even if that division will survive any shrinkage due to the global economy. I get the impression that it's just on their "one of these days" TODO list.
I do believe there is a alpha/beta version they have recently posted. It was a failure for me however. I was unable to get it to work properly with the 64 bit browser. http://labs.adobe.com/technologies/flashplayer10/[^]
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Last year I had this issue with Nvidia drivers. The latest releases have been published together but last year they didn't. Until recently in Nvidia site the Windows XP 64 drivers were not up to date. Or maybe I just missed something.
hmm, interesting. Perhaps you had an older card? I purchased a gforce8800 GT when they first shipped and have had it in a 64 bit gaming system since then. They have always released the 64 bit drivers concurrently with the 32 bit drivers, even well into last year. Perhaps lesser models have some lag?
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I just had a crappy experience at Best Buy. I choose to just buy a computer out of the box rather than mess with building one. I went to the store to see what was available for a new desktop and I could not find any 32-bit Vista machines by HP. I asked one of the sales people about it and he proceeded to let me know that I was silly for wanting 32-bit (he apparently has 2 64-bit systems at home) and that there are no compatibility issues to worry about and that they are awesome. Well I know for a fact that my employer will not allow 64-bit VPN software to be installed on a 64-bit system so that is a good reason not to go there. Will you please let me know what you think of the 2 systems and other than the obvious potential benefits over time is it work buying a 64-bit system now, today?
CleaKO
"Now, a man would have opened both gates, driven through and not bothered to close either gate." - Marc Clifton (The Lounge)
Go to http://www.microsoft.com/windowsvista/1033/ordermedia/default.mspx[^] for an alternate CD (if it's Vista Ultimate, you'll get 32bit + 64bit discs. For anything else, you'll only get the one you ask for (ie 32bit)). You only pay P&P.
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All I do is work (no games) and I've found that 64-bit Vista is like a totally different OS than 32-bit. I really love it. My only complaint is that there's not support for Visual Studio 6.0 and some of the older applications. There may be hacks for that and if so I hope someone shares them here. I gotta say though that in case of XP and Vista I love 64 over 32 and I can tell a big difference.
I've installed Vista 64 on my work computer and I don't have any major problems except for VPN. I have a Cisco VPN that will not install on my 64-bit machine. I have to run it in a VM. In there the connection is a bit flakey. I use VB6 everyday. There are some odd issues, but in general, I don't have a problem with it. - When you open a VBP that has a new control or a new version of a control, you get errors. Just close the VBP without saving and open it again. No problems after that. - If you open a VBP from a write-protected area, it will sometimes not let you "save project as...". - You get a "path not found" when double-clicking a VBP from a mapped drive if VB6 is set to "Run as Administrator". Just click open within VB and it'll work fine. - Run VB6 as administrator to compile DLL's and debug web pages. I think Microsoft screwed up with the syswow64 directory structure, but otherwise I'm happy with 64-bit. Fred.
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Since you mention 64-bit Vista and VPN, I have been having problems with this combination. I was earlier using 32-bit Vista on my laptop and had installed VPN to connect to my client network. No problems there. After I upgraded to 64-bit Vista, I've been having a lot of problems with VPN connectivity. So now, I'm using another box for the VPN software. It's probably something to do with me, but I couldn't fix it so far. So you can either do this or reinstall the computer with a 32 bit OS if your employer has a license for it. Otherwise 64-bit systems are great. You will not be able to run 16-bit programs though.
«_Superman_»
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hmm, interesting. Perhaps you had an older card? I purchased a gforce8800 GT when they first shipped and have had it in a 64 bit gaming system since then. They have always released the 64 bit drivers concurrently with the 32 bit drivers, even well into last year. Perhaps lesser models have some lag?
I don't know if lesser models have a lag but mine is not that old, it is a 7900GTX. I don't know if it is the XP 64 that had a lag... or if it was for my model in particular. I know I had this issue. Now it is not an issue anymore, latest 64 bit release is up to date (Jan 22).