I want...
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Holy cow! What body organs do I have to sell to get one? Where's the devil, he called me up about my soul once...
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Cool, you're goingto sell body parts to buy me a car? :laugh:
Visit http://www.notreadytogiveup.com/[^] and do something special today.
Ah Elaine, but you forgot to ask who's body parts ;p
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...enough money to be able to afford this: Shelby's amazing Aero EV: 0 to 60 in 2.5 seconds, 10 minute recharge[^]
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Nice but electric cars powered by batteries are a dead end technology. The future is most definitely hydrogen powered electric cars unless there is a radical new invention in the area of electricity storage.
"It's so simple to be wise. Just think of something stupid to say and then don't say it." -Sam Levenson
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How in the world do they charge it in 10min....? :wtf: My RC car takes 30min with a runtime of 15 min...
A dogged, arrogant belief in self and the childlike idealism that comes with not knowing my limits. This is my greatest blessing, my priceless attribute.
Massively parallel battery design or an experimental battery chemistry with much higher charge rates (at the cost of somewhat less capacity), combined with a very large DC power supply and a high amperage power circuit.
Today's lesson is brought to you by the word "niggardly". Remember kids, don't attribute to racism what can be explained by Scandinavian language roots. -- Robert Royall
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Nice but electric cars powered by batteries are a dead end technology. The future is most definitely hydrogen powered electric cars unless there is a radical new invention in the area of electricity storage.
"It's so simple to be wise. Just think of something stupid to say and then don't say it." -Sam Levenson
We already have a cheap, mature, reliable technology to store hydrogen atoms in a high density, non cryonic, form that doesn't leak out into the atmosphere no matter what you do, that's widely available today. It involves short chain hydrocarbons. Hydrogen gas is nothing more than a battery that requires zillions of dollars in new infrastructure for distribution and generation. Conventional batteries can piggyback on the existing electrical system. :doh:
Today's lesson is brought to you by the word "niggardly". Remember kids, don't attribute to racism what can be explained by Scandinavian language roots. -- Robert Royall
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Repost! :) Seriously their claims seem to be a little off. Some of the folks here did some math regarding the 10 minute recharge claim. http://www.codeproject.com/Lounge.aspx?fid=1159&select=2895291&fr=1465#xx0xx[^]
¡El diablo está en mis pantalones! ¡Mire, mire! SELECT * FROM User WHERE Clue > 0 0 rows returned Save an Orange - Use the VCF! VCF Blog Laugh: Dercas si Mreps Yreve
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We already have a cheap, mature, reliable technology to store hydrogen atoms in a high density, non cryonic, form that doesn't leak out into the atmosphere no matter what you do, that's widely available today. It involves short chain hydrocarbons. Hydrogen gas is nothing more than a battery that requires zillions of dollars in new infrastructure for distribution and generation. Conventional batteries can piggyback on the existing electrical system. :doh:
Today's lesson is brought to you by the word "niggardly". Remember kids, don't attribute to racism what can be explained by Scandinavian language roots. -- Robert Royall
dan neely wrote:
zillions of dollars in new infrastructure for distribution and generation.
Partly. Something that rarely gets mentioned, though, is the serious increase in electricity generation capacity and new infrastructure to deliver it. People tend to assume that having an electric car means charging from home. That may be the case for those that can wait for overnight charging, but ultimately people are going to demand the 10 minute recharge like the car in this thread says it can handle (a requirement for longer trips). That means charging stations where we now have gas stations. Hydrogen can be transported. Electricity has to be delivered through infrastructure. I'm not so sure the costs for electricity generation, delivery and the infrastructure requried are going to be that much different that what hydrogen will require when it's all said and done. Cheers, Drew.
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Holy cow! What body organs do I have to sell to get one? Where's the devil, he called me up about my soul once...
Mustafa Ismail Mustafa wrote:
Where's the devil, he called me up about my soul once...
"Welcome to Hell, thank you for your call, your call is important to us. To sell you soul, press 1 .. Due to the current economic crisis there is a 3 month backlog in souls. Please try again later." *click*
Bar fomos edo pariyart gedeem, agreo eo dranem abal edyero eyrem kalm kareore
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dan neely wrote:
zillions of dollars in new infrastructure for distribution and generation.
Partly. Something that rarely gets mentioned, though, is the serious increase in electricity generation capacity and new infrastructure to deliver it. People tend to assume that having an electric car means charging from home. That may be the case for those that can wait for overnight charging, but ultimately people are going to demand the 10 minute recharge like the car in this thread says it can handle (a requirement for longer trips). That means charging stations where we now have gas stations. Hydrogen can be transported. Electricity has to be delivered through infrastructure. I'm not so sure the costs for electricity generation, delivery and the infrastructure requried are going to be that much different that what hydrogen will require when it's all said and done. Cheers, Drew.
I am really surprised that no one has come out with a car that supplements its batteries with an air driven generator. The cars have the fancy air intakes, lets put a rotor behind them and use the air flow to help supplement the cars electronics. [edit] I know that it will cause drag (you don't get anything for free) but in the world of electric powered cars it seems to me that any little bit will help. [\edit]
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dan neely wrote:
zillions of dollars in new infrastructure for distribution and generation.
Partly. Something that rarely gets mentioned, though, is the serious increase in electricity generation capacity and new infrastructure to deliver it. People tend to assume that having an electric car means charging from home. That may be the case for those that can wait for overnight charging, but ultimately people are going to demand the 10 minute recharge like the car in this thread says it can handle (a requirement for longer trips). That means charging stations where we now have gas stations. Hydrogen can be transported. Electricity has to be delivered through infrastructure. I'm not so sure the costs for electricity generation, delivery and the infrastructure requried are going to be that much different that what hydrogen will require when it's all said and done. Cheers, Drew.
Hydrogen gas has to be produced though. The energy to do so needs to come from one of the same sources that are used to produce electricity, with the catch that electric motors are more energy efficient than the combination of hydrogen gas production + fuel cell. (both the method using hot steam and a catalyst and electrolysis are very energy intensive). Most of the power needed for an electric car society could be delivered without any increase in the current infrastructure (~90% of miles driven in the US consist of trips totalling <40mi/day) by using overnight chargers when normal grid demands are at the lowest. Hydrogen would require a completely new set of pipelines.
Today's lesson is brought to you by the word "niggardly". Remember kids, don't attribute to racism what can be explained by Scandinavian language roots. -- Robert Royall
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I am really surprised that no one has come out with a car that supplements its batteries with an air driven generator. The cars have the fancy air intakes, lets put a rotor behind them and use the air flow to help supplement the cars electronics. [edit] I know that it will cause drag (you don't get anything for free) but in the world of electric powered cars it seems to me that any little bit will help. [\edit]
Nope. Thermodynamics strikes again. Getting more power from the increased drag than is needed to overcome the effects of the increased deceleration force caused by the drag would be a violation of the conservation of energy principle. In theory it could be of some benefit in a regenerative breaking system, but only if it's more mass/volume efficient than the existing regenerative breaking system. Electirc regenerative breaking currently is only installed on the two wheels that do the bulk of the breaking, because the mass penalty of doing it on all 4 would exceed the additional energy saved.
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Nope. Thermodynamics strikes again. Getting more power from the increased drag than is needed to overcome the effects of the increased deceleration force caused by the drag would be a violation of the conservation of energy principle. In theory it could be of some benefit in a regenerative breaking system, but only if it's more mass/volume efficient than the existing regenerative breaking system. Electirc regenerative breaking currently is only installed on the two wheels that do the bulk of the breaking, because the mass penalty of doing it on all 4 would exceed the additional energy saved.
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Nice but electric cars powered by batteries are a dead end technology. The future is most definitely hydrogen powered electric cars unless there is a radical new invention in the area of electricity storage.
"It's so simple to be wise. Just think of something stupid to say and then don't say it." -Sam Levenson
Hydrogen is a false promise. The most efficient commercial process for producing hydrogen uses 40% more energy than you get back from burning the hydrogen. And uses petroleum products as a source. Forget using water as a source, it takes even more energy to separate hydrogen from water. Hydrogen will never be a large scale solution unless we find a way to produce electricity for free. In which case electric cars might be a good idea after all.
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First time I ever heard that song was back in the day when I had first got my drivers license, we drove to the nearest city and I bought the cassette, we were smoking a few "herbal" cigarettes at the time and on the way back I had that tape cranked and it came to the part with the sirens and I still to this day remember the panic I felt for a split second looking in my rear view mirror and mentally running down a checklist of things to toss out the window / eat. :)
"It's so simple to be wise. Just think of something stupid to say and then don't say it." -Sam Levenson
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Hydrogen is a false promise. The most efficient commercial process for producing hydrogen uses 40% more energy than you get back from burning the hydrogen. And uses petroleum products as a source. Forget using water as a source, it takes even more energy to separate hydrogen from water. Hydrogen will never be a large scale solution unless we find a way to produce electricity for free. In which case electric cars might be a good idea after all.
I'll lay money on the future for more efficient hydrogen production than on practical electric car electricity storage. No one's really had a reason to provide hydrogen on the scale of petrochemicals (really not much required but a ramp up, perhaps some more experimentation with gene splicing to create bacteria that can crack hydrogen out of something else would be ideal) but there has been a huge need for more efficient batteries for decades and despite the best efforts of industry we're still no where near there.
"It's so simple to be wise. Just think of something stupid to say and then don't say it." -Sam Levenson
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I'll lay money on the future for more efficient hydrogen production than on practical electric car electricity storage. No one's really had a reason to provide hydrogen on the scale of petrochemicals (really not much required but a ramp up, perhaps some more experimentation with gene splicing to create bacteria that can crack hydrogen out of something else would be ideal) but there has been a huge need for more efficient batteries for decades and despite the best efforts of industry we're still no where near there.
"It's so simple to be wise. Just think of something stupid to say and then don't say it." -Sam Levenson
John C wrote:
create bacteria that can crack hydrogen out of something else
Yes! I believe that there are already bacteria that produce methane, which I think some of the lap-top fuel cell prototypes use. Surely the Methane could replace the petroleum based feed-stocks mentioned earlier?
Henry Minute Do not read medical books! You could die of a misprint. - Mark Twain Girl: (staring) "Why do you need an icy cucumber?"
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Nice but electric cars powered by batteries are a dead end technology. The future is most definitely hydrogen powered electric cars unless there is a radical new invention in the area of electricity storage.
"It's so simple to be wise. Just think of something stupid to say and then don't say it." -Sam Levenson
Hydrogen power is also a dead end in the foreseeable future, mainly because of the costs involved in creating the hydrogen. It's just a to inefficient process. I believe that the Fischer Tropsch[^] process, to create oil from any hydrocarbons (such as wood or farming byproducts) is the way to go. The efficiency here is also less than 50% but the residual heat can be used in electric powerplants. And it's tested. It's been used in South Africa for many years.
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I'll lay money on the future for more efficient hydrogen production than on practical electric car electricity storage. No one's really had a reason to provide hydrogen on the scale of petrochemicals (really not much required but a ramp up, perhaps some more experimentation with gene splicing to create bacteria that can crack hydrogen out of something else would be ideal) but there has been a huge need for more efficient batteries for decades and despite the best efforts of industry we're still no where near there.
"It's so simple to be wise. Just think of something stupid to say and then don't say it." -Sam Levenson
John, Cracking Hydrogen is simple physics. You have to overcome the binding force between the hydrogen and what it is mixed with, i.e. oxygen, etc. The bond between H and O is one of the strongest, which is why there is so much water around. A calculation of the energy required to crack hydrogen vs the energy returned says hydrogen can never be a positive return. There is no microbe or secret catalyst that changes the energy balance that mother nature gave us. Which is not to say hydrogen can't be useful. If we have a massive amount of cheap electricity to waste, we could use it to make hydrogen as an automotive fuel. But if we have that much electricity, we may as well use electric cars.
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John, Cracking Hydrogen is simple physics. You have to overcome the binding force between the hydrogen and what it is mixed with, i.e. oxygen, etc. The bond between H and O is one of the strongest, which is why there is so much water around. A calculation of the energy required to crack hydrogen vs the energy returned says hydrogen can never be a positive return. There is no microbe or secret catalyst that changes the energy balance that mother nature gave us. Which is not to say hydrogen can't be useful. If we have a massive amount of cheap electricity to waste, we could use it to make hydrogen as an automotive fuel. But if we have that much electricity, we may as well use electric cars.
http://live.psu.edu/story/11709[^] http://www.nanowerk.com/spotlight/spotid=8590.php[^] There are dozens of other examples. I think it's clear that hydrogen powered electric vehicles solve all the problems of battery powered electric vehicles and it's clear that there just hasn't been enough investment in the research because there are all kinds of promising approaches. Battery powered electric vehicles are just not a substitute for what we have now they are too limited in too many ways and the battery itself despite untold amounts of money and time has not improved substantially in decades.
"It's so simple to be wise. Just think of something stupid to say and then don't say it." -Sam Levenson