TV: LCD or Plasma?
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Want burn-in? Get plasma. Seriously. I've yet to see one that doesn't have the tv-guide grid burned in to some degree. Or big rectangles on either side a different shade of dark grey than the middle (from watching lots of standard format video). It's too bad because plasma produces a richer picture than LCD can. That said, the latest LCD's put on a pretty fine show. I'd get one of the new Sharp 65" Limited Edition XS1 LCD's in a second if they didn't run $6500 CAD. Cheers, Drew.
Have to agree. I work for a company that makes software used in public space signage. Burn-in was the biggest problem with plasmas. We've managed to burn LCD screens in testing, too - leave an image on over a long weekend and you get burn-in. If you watch a lot of the same TV stations, you can even start to get hints of the little "bug logo" in the corners. A lot of stations have started bouncing that around now to prevent this, I think. I bought an LCD for home. Wouldn't touch a plasma. I find plasmas are really hot, too - put your hand in front of the white areas on a plasma screen and feel how warm it is. We had a test room with a couple of plasma screens in, and we never had to have the heat on in there in the winter. And it could get a tad unbearable at times in the summer.
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I recently bought a Samsung 46" LCD. Many of the typical arguments against LCD screens (viewing angle, contrast, etc) have been improved to the point where they may not even bother you. After comparing many LCD screens to plasmas, I decided that I preferred the LCD picture in most cases, as it was sharper. My only dislike, after having it for about a month, is the motion blurring. After going back to the store and comparing it with the other plasmas again, I perceived the same blurring in the plasmas (even though the online reviews led me to believe that plasmas did not have this problem). Overall, I am very happy with my choice.
viewing angle's probably the most variable one. There're 3 types of LCD panels with very different performance levels in that factor. The cheapest TN is what's used in laptop displays, cheap LCD tvs, and mass market LCD monitors. Everyone knows how badly they suck on viewing angles (The 160/170* claimed in the specsheet is where it falls to a 5:1 contrast ratio :wtf: ). The only thing good iabout them is the cost and power consumption. Sub5ms response times are also a giveway but since 60hz video is 16ms anything faster is useless. The second PVA/MVA (the difference only is relevant if you're a patent lawyer) has much better viewing angles and the highest contrast ratios. The problem they have is that when viewed from dead on (as opposed to an angle) the first 5-10% of the greyscale is all shown the same shade of black(black crush). They also have a bit of gamma shift that differs depending on if you're looking from the left or right. Unless you're doing something color critical like photo editing you're unlikely to notice this effect. These generally are marked as having 176* viewing angles, and actually look good at sharp angles. The third is IPS. These have the best viewing angles (178*). They need two transistors per pixel instead of one like the other types. This makes them the most expensive and means they have the lowest contrast ratios. They're the only type that can have their color calibrated to be perfect. Dead pixels on IPS are black instead of white which tends to be less noticable. They don't have black crush so you can often ID them this way. Older panels tinted black areas purple at sharp viewing angles, newer ones don't. Less expensive new IPS panels instead have black areas glow white at sharp angles. More expensive panels eliminate the glow with a "True White" polarizing filter.
Today's lesson is brought to you by the word "niggardly". Remember kids, don't attribute to racism what can be explained by Scandinavian language roots. -- Robert Royall
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Want burn-in? Get plasma. Seriously. I've yet to see one that doesn't have the tv-guide grid burned in to some degree. Or big rectangles on either side a different shade of dark grey than the middle (from watching lots of standard format video). It's too bad because plasma produces a richer picture than LCD can. That said, the latest LCD's put on a pretty fine show. I'd get one of the new Sharp 65" Limited Edition XS1 LCD's in a second if they didn't run $6500 CAD. Cheers, Drew.
Yeah they do burn in but mainly when they are new so you have to be careful not to leave something on pause for a long time, as they get older they still burn in but it's washed away pretty quickly by something else. There are a lot of people out there under the misapprehension that plasmas no longer burn in as if it was something fixed that was a problem in early models only, that's simply not true, but if you are aware of it and take steps to avoid it in the first few weeks of owning a plasma it's not that big of a deal.
"It's so simple to be wise. Just think of something stupid to say and then don't say it." -Sam Levenson
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Have to agree. I work for a company that makes software used in public space signage. Burn-in was the biggest problem with plasmas. We've managed to burn LCD screens in testing, too - leave an image on over a long weekend and you get burn-in. If you watch a lot of the same TV stations, you can even start to get hints of the little "bug logo" in the corners. A lot of stations have started bouncing that around now to prevent this, I think. I bought an LCD for home. Wouldn't touch a plasma. I find plasmas are really hot, too - put your hand in front of the white areas on a plasma screen and feel how warm it is. We had a test room with a couple of plasma screens in, and we never had to have the heat on in there in the winter. And it could get a tad unbearable at times in the summer.
GuyWithDogs wrote:
We've managed to burn LCD screens in testing, too - leave an image on over a long weekend and you get burn-in.
The LCD equivalent to burning shouldn't be permanent; to speed it going away play a video instead of a different static image.
Today's lesson is brought to you by the word "niggardly". Remember kids, don't attribute to racism what can be explained by Scandinavian language roots. -- Robert Royall
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What you guys from CP choose? and why?
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.(John 3:16) :badger:
Chose LCD -- Sony Bravia strain. Strong tuner and slow to boot, but heck, firmware source is supposedly available (if the GNU license flyer is to be believed) :) Do you have digital signals into your house? Right about now people may be panicing or thinking they'll get benefits if they go digital, but if you have cable and you don't pay for the digital channels, you'll get no benefit other than the larger screen (with the same old 480i signals displayed on it). To pick the TV, go to Best Buy where you can look at a wall of TVs and compare their pictures side by side. Pick the one that looks the best. Pay attention to how bright the whites are, how dark the blacks are, and how much detail you can see in the lightest and darkest areas. Watch them for a long while and look for wierdness in fast changing motion (excessive blockiness, skipped frames, etc.). TVs vary widely, you are picking the best specific model in the size you want, not a technology or brand -- even two brand-X models side-by-side will show marked differences in these areas. BTW, bring the wife and kids if you can -- let them do the aestetic assessment while you examine the specs and interpret them for them (don't be suprised if they couldn't care less about specs.. that what you want them to do). Does it have enoguh inputs of the types you'll need? Are thay all independent or did they combbine some (like the old compositie video and S-video inputs -- you got both connectors, but could only use one or the other per input). Talk to the sales people about their installation and tweaking service -- we chose not because it looked to me like they had dumbed down the gamma, giving everything a gray cast. Probably all that could be done with the demo TVs to get the best tonality range. If you're doing free air, try your existing antenna first before buying anything. A lot of them seem to work fine with the new digital TV signals. Do you have an upconverting DVD player or a blue-ray player yet? If not, you should consider one at some point if you watch many movies. How about the VCR or DVR? Have a digital-tuner one yet? I've been having fun trying to find a DVR recently. Prefer HDMI interconnects over component video if you can afford to -- digital vs. analog through the cable is slightly better picture, and tons more convenient (1 vs. 5 cables to connect) but not enough to compell the expenditure. Will you want a component/HDMI cable for the game console? Wii with component cable is awesome on a 42" widescreen :) Again
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Oh, they are, they are. But I've not seen an LCD or Plasma that gives a better picture. Like DD I'll get a LCD when my CRT dies.
Henry Minute Do not read medical books! You could die of a misprint. - Mark Twain Girl: (staring) "Why do you need an icy cucumber?" “I want to report a fraud. The government is lying to us all.”
Panasonic are launching broadcast grade plasmas that give a very good colour match to CRT phosphors, I just hope that's what Pioneer are going to be using in using in the new G10s.
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What you guys from CP choose? and why?
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.(John 3:16) :badger:
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If CRTs could handle HD I'd much rather have one.
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HD? I only got digital 2 weeks ago.
Henry Minute Do not read medical books! You could die of a misprint. - Mark Twain Girl: (staring) "Why do you need an icy cucumber?" “I want to report a fraud. The government is lying to us all.”
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I totally agree. Today's Samsung LCD is as good or better than plasma. There may be some people out there that can tell a difference. That's why you should always look at all choices and see what looks best to you. For my $1500 the Samsung LCD wins on all fronts. (I moved up from a 36" HD CRT...the LCD can't touch that picture quality, but plasma can't either). stevev
The Samsung A950 series is hot. No burn in. 120Hz refresh rate. LED backlighting (really cool). 1,000,000:1 contrast ratio. Very nice. Also very expensive. MAC
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The Samsung A950 series is hot. No burn in. 120Hz refresh rate. LED backlighting (really cool). 1,000,000:1 contrast ratio. Very nice. Also very expensive. MAC
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The million to one contrast ratio is a bit of a fib, it's based on switching off sections of the backlighting which you can do with LEDs.
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Trollslayer wrote:
The million to one contrast ratio is a bit of a fib
I'd put that much more strongly. Dynamic contrast ratios fall just below vertical viewing angles for TN panels in the Lies, Damn Lies, and LCD Panel Specifications pantheon.
Today's lesson is brought to you by the word "niggardly". Remember kids, don't attribute to racism what can be explained by Scandinavian language roots. -- Robert Royall
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Trollslayer wrote:
The million to one contrast ratio is a bit of a fib
I'd put that much more strongly. Dynamic contrast ratios fall just below vertical viewing angles for TN panels in the Lies, Damn Lies, and LCD Panel Specifications pantheon.
Today's lesson is brought to you by the word "niggardly". Remember kids, don't attribute to racism what can be explained by Scandinavian language roots. -- Robert Royall
I don't know about the reality of the numbers but on the A950, black is black, not gray. In a dark room my brother in-laws A650 (50,000:1 ratio) is grey when showing black. The A950 is just black. However, I do wonder how much of a gap there is between say, a 50% gray and black vs. a 50% gray and white. The black is created by turning the backlight off. I believe I read something that the backlight is done in a 16x16 pixel block. It can't turn off individual pixels in the backlight. Anyway, with the backlight on, you still have a maximum light blocking capability of the LCD crystals. So if you want a shade somewhere between the maximum block and backlight off, you are SOL. I wonder how big that gap is? In the end, all I can say is it looks REALLY good. They review very well, too. I didn't mention the price though, did I? 3000USD+ depending upon screen size. MAC
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I don't know about the reality of the numbers but on the A950, black is black, not gray. In a dark room my brother in-laws A650 (50,000:1 ratio) is grey when showing black. The A950 is just black. However, I do wonder how much of a gap there is between say, a 50% gray and black vs. a 50% gray and white. The black is created by turning the backlight off. I believe I read something that the backlight is done in a 16x16 pixel block. It can't turn off individual pixels in the backlight. Anyway, with the backlight on, you still have a maximum light blocking capability of the LCD crystals. So if you want a shade somewhere between the maximum block and backlight off, you are SOL. I wonder how big that gap is? In the end, all I can say is it looks REALLY good. They review very well, too. I didn't mention the price though, did I? 3000USD+ depending upon screen size. MAC
Oh. And my brother in-law is very happy with the A650, too. MAC
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What you guys from CP choose? and why?
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.(John 3:16) :badger:
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I don't know about the reality of the numbers but on the A950, black is black, not gray. In a dark room my brother in-laws A650 (50,000:1 ratio) is grey when showing black. The A950 is just black. However, I do wonder how much of a gap there is between say, a 50% gray and black vs. a 50% gray and white. The black is created by turning the backlight off. I believe I read something that the backlight is done in a 16x16 pixel block. It can't turn off individual pixels in the backlight. Anyway, with the backlight on, you still have a maximum light blocking capability of the LCD crystals. So if you want a shade somewhere between the maximum block and backlight off, you are SOL. I wonder how big that gap is? In the end, all I can say is it looks REALLY good. They review very well, too. I didn't mention the price though, did I? 3000USD+ depending upon screen size. MAC
Dunno. If they've got the block down to 16x16 in size it's probably not something you'd be able to spot without close inspection and a test pattern, at the much closer viewing distance of a PC display I'm still rather dubious about it. A mix of black and white lines with varying gaps through a DVI-HDMI adapter would probably work.
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For PQ plasma, as it has much better black levels, and hence a properly high contrast ratio (without needing the annoyingly useless dynamic contrast) However there is a large price premium, and they can be noisy. Also for the majority any decent modern LCD will suite them fine, as they won't notice the difference. For Plasma, the Pioneer Kuro Reference Panel (KRP600A) is probly one of the best displays you can get your hands on at the mo. If your in the states, then the Mitsubishi Laser RPT has had outstanding reviews, but its not super thin like lcd/plasma. Oh and if your going for a decent set, don't bother if your not going to be feeding it a decent HD source like Blu-Ray.
I went with the LCD as they are much better at handling ambient light screen reflection. (Sunlight through the door / windows)The glass on the plasma is much more reflective and would make viewing a real pane.... If i had a darkened "cinema room" - i would have gone the plasma.
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If CRTs could handle HD I'd much rather have one.
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Yep, CRT dont play HD formats. And if you buy a LCD or Plasma. Pay atention if they are Full HD ( 1080p ) to play Blu-Ray quality. There are also HD ( 720p ) out there. :)))))))))) 1 - Buy your full HD tv 2 - Connect your PC HDMI cable on it 3 - Configure your Vista Media Center (optional - to see the tv and play with the PC at the same time) 4 - Buy a Remote Controller to Media Center (optional) 5 - Find some movies to see (Buy it, dont do illegal downloads please) 5 - Enjoi 1080p n 720p! ;)
"Go for it!"