Do you use version control (and related horror stories)
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Recently, I interviewed as a contractor for a "educational" game company in CT. Every programmer and graphic artist said "we'd love to use version control, but nobody knows how to set it up". More recently, I was talking to the network admin for a company in Rhode Island that does telemarketing via fax, and he was asking me if I thought version control would be useful, because there's about 8 programmers on the project. Good grief. I used to work for a game company in San Diego (Software Sorcery, now defunct) that used version control, but they tied it in to the build process for each programmer. The batch file automatically checked out any latest code before building. Talk about instability! And my best story is this: An "integrating" company in San Diego had one team using a bootleg copy of Source Safe. Why? Because the senior management didn't want to spend $600 per seat for PVCS or SourceSafe. Instead... they thought the programmers could WRITE THEIR OWN, and then SELL it as a product. Hahahahahaha. Marc
I worked on one project where the form of "version control" was a text file that you were supposed to edit in order to "check out" a file .. ie open the file in notepad, search for the file name and if nobody else had their name by it you simply added your name and off you went .. of course this doesnt provide any "versioning" capability .. but surprising it did enable the coordination of a team of 5 developers .. Of course now where ever I go I insist on the use of CVS if the project is too strapped to pay for anything else.
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Marc Clifton wrote: he was asking me if I thought version control would be useful, because there's about 8 programmers on the project. Good grief. Unbelievable! We have been using CVS here for over 10 years! The mind truly boggles.
Faith. Believing in something you *know* isn't true.
Version control is essential with ONE person on a project!! Davy www.latedecember.com
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Recently, I interviewed as a contractor for a "educational" game company in CT. Every programmer and graphic artist said "we'd love to use version control, but nobody knows how to set it up". More recently, I was talking to the network admin for a company in Rhode Island that does telemarketing via fax, and he was asking me if I thought version control would be useful, because there's about 8 programmers on the project. Good grief. I used to work for a game company in San Diego (Software Sorcery, now defunct) that used version control, but they tied it in to the build process for each programmer. The batch file automatically checked out any latest code before building. Talk about instability! And my best story is this: An "integrating" company in San Diego had one team using a bootleg copy of Source Safe. Why? Because the senior management didn't want to spend $600 per seat for PVCS or SourceSafe. Instead... they thought the programmers could WRITE THEIR OWN, and then SELL it as a product. Hahahahahaha. Marc
If you're just now getting into programming professionally, or if you're still studying and haven't made the jump yet, take what Marc is saying very seriously. You can learn it the hard way if you like, but I can't imagine why anyone would want to put themselves through it. I even use Source Safe for all my coding projects at home. It's not a rocket science system, but for my projects, there's no need for aviation fuel anyway. Even book chapters get checked in! In other words, if you've never used a version control product, buy a copy as soon as you can. The sanity you save may be your own... Chistopher Duncan Author - The Career Programmer: Guerilla Tactics for an Imperfect World (Apress)
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We've got a development team of eight, working on a project that includes two device drivers, four services, two applications, and twenty-plus COM objects. We have a predecessor product (with two development paths) of similar complexity. Of course we use version control. SourceSafe isn't the greatest. We've had to roll some of our own maintenance applications (VB and OLE Automation, X|), and it can be a PITA when the data base gets bunged up, but it's sure as heck a lot easier than managing it manually. If I worked on significant (read: paying) projects at home, I'd use SourceSafe there too, if only for the versioning capabilities. Roll your own version control? How can that possibly we worth it? I don't know where they tried to buy SourceSafe, but it's not $600/seat. Even at that, in most shops I know of, $600 barely buys you four or five hours of programmer time.
"Think of it as evolution in action." - 'Oath of Fealty' by Larry Niven and Jerry Pournelle
Gary Wheeler wrote: Roll your own version control? How can that possibly we worth it? And how you gonna manage the source code while you're doing it? :-) Chistopher Duncan Author - The Career Programmer: Guerilla Tactics for an Imperfect World (Apress)
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Recently, I interviewed as a contractor for a "educational" game company in CT. Every programmer and graphic artist said "we'd love to use version control, but nobody knows how to set it up". More recently, I was talking to the network admin for a company in Rhode Island that does telemarketing via fax, and he was asking me if I thought version control would be useful, because there's about 8 programmers on the project. Good grief. I used to work for a game company in San Diego (Software Sorcery, now defunct) that used version control, but they tied it in to the build process for each programmer. The batch file automatically checked out any latest code before building. Talk about instability! And my best story is this: An "integrating" company in San Diego had one team using a bootleg copy of Source Safe. Why? Because the senior management didn't want to spend $600 per seat for PVCS or SourceSafe. Instead... they thought the programmers could WRITE THEIR OWN, and then SELL it as a product. Hahahahahaha. Marc
I've been lucky that every team I've worked on has had version control. But in my first programming job, we were using a command-line based PVCS, which, for the newbie programmer, was not fun. Single-person check out (not good for big teams), and when you checked a file in, PVCS wrote any comments you provided at the top of the file :wtf: Use SourceSafe at home (since it came with DevStudio), and Perforce at work (much faster than the previously used SourceSafe). :-D But my mind hurts at the concept of NOT using version-control. Even if it is just a bunch of zipfiles! :-D
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Version control is essential with ONE person on a project!! Davy www.latedecember.com
Damn straight. I solo and I religiously use VSS. Tim Smith "Programmers are always surrounded by complexity; we can not avoid it... If our basic tool, the language in which we design and code our programs, is also complicated, the language itself becomes part of the problem rather that part of the solution." Hoare - 1980 ACM Turing Award Lecture
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Recently, I interviewed as a contractor for a "educational" game company in CT. Every programmer and graphic artist said "we'd love to use version control, but nobody knows how to set it up". More recently, I was talking to the network admin for a company in Rhode Island that does telemarketing via fax, and he was asking me if I thought version control would be useful, because there's about 8 programmers on the project. Good grief. I used to work for a game company in San Diego (Software Sorcery, now defunct) that used version control, but they tied it in to the build process for each programmer. The batch file automatically checked out any latest code before building. Talk about instability! And my best story is this: An "integrating" company in San Diego had one team using a bootleg copy of Source Safe. Why? Because the senior management didn't want to spend $600 per seat for PVCS or SourceSafe. Instead... they thought the programmers could WRITE THEIR OWN, and then SELL it as a product. Hahahahahaha. Marc
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Marc Clifton wrote: Instead... they thought the programmers could WRITE THEIR OWN, and then SELL it as a product. That's good one :) Tomasz Sowinski -- http://www.shooltz.com
** Putt knot yore thrust inn spel chequers. **
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why not? It's just some copying files around! :cool:
One day I might find it quite amusing how touching tongues make life so confusing Anne Clark again [sighist]
peterchen wrote: It's just some copying files around! Of course it is. But I meant the 'sell' part ;) Tomasz Sowinski -- http://www.shooltz.com
** Putt knot yore thrust inn spel chequers. **
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Recently, I interviewed as a contractor for a "educational" game company in CT. Every programmer and graphic artist said "we'd love to use version control, but nobody knows how to set it up". More recently, I was talking to the network admin for a company in Rhode Island that does telemarketing via fax, and he was asking me if I thought version control would be useful, because there's about 8 programmers on the project. Good grief. I used to work for a game company in San Diego (Software Sorcery, now defunct) that used version control, but they tied it in to the build process for each programmer. The batch file automatically checked out any latest code before building. Talk about instability! And my best story is this: An "integrating" company in San Diego had one team using a bootleg copy of Source Safe. Why? Because the senior management didn't want to spend $600 per seat for PVCS or SourceSafe. Instead... they thought the programmers could WRITE THEIR OWN, and then SELL it as a product. Hahahahahaha. Marc
How about having a VSS database setup for a team of developers, but only one person has check-out/in rights. It took a few "collisions", but now all of the developers finally can check in and out. Like many others, I can't imagine not using at least some form of basic source code control, even on my own projects.
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Recently, I interviewed as a contractor for a "educational" game company in CT. Every programmer and graphic artist said "we'd love to use version control, but nobody knows how to set it up". More recently, I was talking to the network admin for a company in Rhode Island that does telemarketing via fax, and he was asking me if I thought version control would be useful, because there's about 8 programmers on the project. Good grief. I used to work for a game company in San Diego (Software Sorcery, now defunct) that used version control, but they tied it in to the build process for each programmer. The batch file automatically checked out any latest code before building. Talk about instability! And my best story is this: An "integrating" company in San Diego had one team using a bootleg copy of Source Safe. Why? Because the senior management didn't want to spend $600 per seat for PVCS or SourceSafe. Instead... they thought the programmers could WRITE THEIR OWN, and then SELL it as a product. Hahahahahaha. Marc
I've been charged with getting the company rolling on PVCS. A VB project and Interdev project have been set up with minor headaches, but no big deal yet. I'm "rolling my own" Assembler editor with PVCS functionality, and have been using PVCS for that project with no problems. This is my first experience with source control of any kind, and so far so good. BW {insert witty/thought-provoking saying here}
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Recently, I interviewed as a contractor for a "educational" game company in CT. Every programmer and graphic artist said "we'd love to use version control, but nobody knows how to set it up". More recently, I was talking to the network admin for a company in Rhode Island that does telemarketing via fax, and he was asking me if I thought version control would be useful, because there's about 8 programmers on the project. Good grief. I used to work for a game company in San Diego (Software Sorcery, now defunct) that used version control, but they tied it in to the build process for each programmer. The batch file automatically checked out any latest code before building. Talk about instability! And my best story is this: An "integrating" company in San Diego had one team using a bootleg copy of Source Safe. Why? Because the senior management didn't want to spend $600 per seat for PVCS or SourceSafe. Instead... they thought the programmers could WRITE THEIR OWN, and then SELL it as a product. Hahahahahaha. Marc
Not only is version control critical, so is the release build process. But having version control doesn't do much good if the developers abuse it by checking in garbage. (And by this, I do mean garbage; like a developer deleting all but one function in a file, changing it, then checking it in so he doesn't forget "his idea". Or a developer changing a header and then checking it in without compiling the project AND all the associated projects.) How about those sites where nobody labels builds? Best story, though, is my last company which had two sites. When I arrived I fixed the source safe and build process for the first site, but nobody had ever done a repair on the source safe at the second site. When I finally got a copy of the second site's source safe, it was extremely corrupted and some files were permanently lost. Several other files were only on a single workstation at the second facility.
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Marc Clifton wrote: he was asking me if I thought version control would be useful, because there's about 8 programmers on the project. Good grief. Unbelievable! We have been using CVS here for over 10 years! The mind truly boggles.
Faith. Believing in something you *know* isn't true.
That's impressive, considering that CVS is only about 7 years old. ;P -- Where are we going? And why am I in this handbasket?