Change

Christian Graus

Stan Shannon wrote:

The only agent of change we have had in a long time was from George W. Bush

You really think so ?

Stan Shannon wrote:

Obama is not an agent of change, he is simply a socialist

You're saying that's not a change from Bush ? I mean, change, in this case, means a change from how things ran under Bush, right ?

Stan Shannon wrote:

There is nothing different or unique about anything he has proposed or suggested that you could not find in dozens of failed states around the world.

Define 'failed' ?

Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista.

Mike Gaskey

Bassam Saoud wrote:

If not of the geographical seperation of West Bank and Gaza, Hamas and Fatah would fight to the last breath.

I suggest we build a bridge.

Mike - typical white guy. The USA does have universal healthcare, but you have to pay for it. D'oh. Thomas Mann - "Tolerance becomes a crime when applied to evil." The NYT - my leftist brochure. Calling an illegal alien an “undocumented immigrant” is like calling a drug dealer an “unlicensed pharmacist”. God doesn't believe in atheists, therefore they don't exist.

Christian Graus

Bassam Saoud wrote:

Universal healthcare as an example is good change

Stan doesn't think so. Stand by for ridiculous theories about how universal healthcare means the government not letting you see a doctor when you need one, or choose your own doctor.

Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista.

Bassam Saoud

Christian Graus wrote:

choose your own doctor.

I believe that's how it works in UK. Basially each person is appointed a doctor which you see first and based on your case will be redirected to specialist. This is info I got from a friend in UK so not sure how acurate the info is. But in France and Germany it works different.

Bassam Saoud

Mike Gaskey wrote:

Bassam Saoud wrote: If not of the geographical seperation of West Bank and Gaza, Hamas and Fatah would fight to the last breath. I suggest we build a bridge.

What a terrible thing to say. I have seen a reportage about the last war. What a mess. Not sure how Israel or hamas can justify what they did. If any good thing came up out of that war is the stance the arab leauge took espicially Egypt.

Bassam Saoud

If I may answer one of your question:

Christian Graus wrote:

Stan Shannon wrote: The only agent of change we have had in a long time was from George W. Bush You really think so ?

I can testify to this in Foriegn policy. Iran/Syria - Relief to Africa. Kosovo/Albania/ Russia. Anti terror poilicies - Homeland security and intellegence corporation between different countries.

Stan Shannon

Bassam Saoud wrote:

Universal healthcare as an example is good change.

Universal health care will be the death of America. Healthcare should be an exchange between two free people - the patient and the doctor unencumbered by any sort of government intervention at all. Being an American is not about being taken care of, it is about being able to take care of yourself. That is what defines us and makes us distinct from other cultures. Anyone who doesn't like that should go somewhere else.

Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.

Bassam Saoud

What if you dont have money? Why do you pay taxes for?

Stan Shannon

Christian Graus wrote:

You really think so ?

Absolutely.

Christian Graus wrote:

You're saying that's not a change from Bush ? I mean, change, in this case, means a change from how things ran under Bush, right ?

And apparently back to the way they were ran under Clinton (best case) and FDR (worst case).

Christian Graus wrote:

Define 'failed' ?

Cuba, the USSR, Europe, Canada, Communist China, etc, etc, etc,

Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.

Stan Shannon

Bassam Saoud wrote:

What if you dont have money?

Thats what christian charity is for.

Bassam Saoud wrote:

Why do you pay taxes for?

The general welfare.

Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.

BoneSoft

Interesting to know, thanks for the insight. I wish I could count on US media to point of the things we actually do right. I hope Obama listens to Mitchell, and at this point I have no reason to think he won't. But like I said, he could sprout wings and fly away and it wouldn't surprise me. However, if he could get through an interview without saying "uh" and "yaknow" 400,000 times, that actually would surprise me.

Visit BoneSoft.com for code generation tools (XML & XSD -> C#, VB, etc...) and some free developer tools as well.

Mike Gaskey

Bassam Saoud wrote:

Not sure how Israel or hamas can justify what they did.

I agree, as far as Hamas is concerned - animals. Israel had no choice and my only criticism s that they waited far too long. My apologies if it sounds as though I have no sympathy for the Palestinians themselves, I do but.

Mike - typical white guy. The USA does have universal healthcare, but you have to pay for it. D'oh. Thomas Mann - "Tolerance becomes a crime when applied to evil." The NYT - my leftist brochure. Calling an illegal alien an “undocumented immigrant” is like calling a drug dealer an “unlicensed pharmacist”. God doesn't believe in atheists, therefore they don't exist.

Oakman

Bassam Saoud wrote:

I understand your point of view but the world is very inter connected. You have american workers working in Foriegn countries that may be affected by such a change of policy. The answer in my humble opinion is to monitor the policy instead of shutting down the borders.

More than 11 million Americans are looking for work. Yet our government allows more than 1.5 million foreign workers a year to legally enter the U.S. for jobs. That doesn't include millions of illegal foreign workers. Since H1bs can stay in this country legally for six years, 9 million jobs would open up if we sent 'em all home. The entire justification for the H1B program was because there weren't enough trained Americans to fill those jobs. It was less than the truth then and it is a total lie, now. Most countries have very stringent and very stringently enforced laws about hiring foreigners. And most employers are allowed to discriminate against anyone who does not speak like a native. Why the hell should we be any different???

Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Algoraphobia: An exaggerated fear of the outside world rooted in the belief that one might spontaneously combust due to global warming.

Oakman

Mike Gaskey wrote:

I do but

How politically incorrect of you. We may have to throw you out of the Jummy Carter fan club.

Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Algoraphobia: An exaggerated fear of the outside world rooted in the belief that one might spontaneously combust due to global warming.

Tim Craig

BoneSoft wrote:

However, if he could get through an interview without saying "uh" and "yaknow" 400,000 times, that actually would surprise me.

Yeah, I bet your really miss that divinely inspired oratory of Dub. :laugh:

"Republicans are the party that says government doesn't work and then they get elected and prove it." -- P.J. O'Rourke

Lost User

Stan Shannon wrote:

Canada

Yeah, we're really failed all right. My God, the sheer horror of our lives up here defies imagination. :rolleyes:

- F

Oakman

Stan Shannon wrote:

The only agent of change we have had in a long time was from George W. Bush.

See Boney, I told you the right wing was trying to set up their own little regimnented heaven. Even Stan says so,

Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Algoraphobia: An exaggerated fear of the outside world rooted in the belief that one might spontaneously combust due to global warming.

Christian Graus

Stan Shannon wrote:

Cuba

Cuba's biggest issue is the USA How has Canada failed ? How has China ? I mean, they kind of own you nowadays.

Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista.

Oakman

Bassam Saoud wrote:

Basially each person is appointed a doctor which you see first and based on your case will be redirected to specialist

Sounds like most HMOs in this country.

Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Algoraphobia: An exaggerated fear of the outside world rooted in the belief that one might spontaneously combust due to global warming.

Oakman

Stan Shannon wrote:

Healthcare should be an exchange between two free people - the patient and the doctor unencumbered

Would that include the insurance company and/or the employer?

Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Algoraphobia: An exaggerated fear of the outside world rooted in the belief that one might spontaneously combust due to global warming.