beheading in buffalo
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Christian Graus wrote:
It's just like Stan's brilliant social justice program. The people who are too poor, obviously are lazy. The people who die, were obviously guilty. The winners write the rules, and write history. everyone wins, except people who don't matter.
As, of course, compared to your own - implement ineffective and unworkable collectivist, centrally planned, social programs for the purpose of making sure that everyone is poor and starving.
Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.
Stan Shannon wrote:
ineffective and unworkable
Plainly not
Stan Shannon wrote:
collectivist
Obviously not
Stan Shannon wrote:
centrally planned
As opposed to not planned at all, ad hoc and arbitrary ?
Stan Shannon wrote:
social programs for the purpose of making sure that everyone is poor and starving.
Yes, because if we were to help people in need, we'd all starve. The money/food/etc would just evaporate, right ?
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista.
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*grin* I'm sure you don't. Do you shave with it tho ?
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista.
Took some hair off my arm to demonstrate just how sharp it is... other than that, no, too unwieldy!! Besides, one slip could change my religion!!
Knowledge is knowing that the tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is not putting it in fruit salad!! Booger Mobile - Camp Quality esCarpade 2010
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Gary Kirkham wrote:
I don't guess that's working out too well for him.
Well, he didn't stone her to death. I suppose that is some kind of positive change.
Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.
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Took some hair off my arm to demonstrate just how sharp it is... other than that, no, too unwieldy!! Besides, one slip could change my religion!!
Knowledge is knowing that the tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is not putting it in fruit salad!! Booger Mobile - Camp Quality esCarpade 2010
My wife threatens to change my religion from time to time. And she doesn't have that sharp a knife to do it with.....
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista.
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Stan Shannon wrote:
Well, he didn't stone her to death. I suppose that is some kind of positive change.
That's more a community project. Perhaps he merely didn't have the time to organize it.
Or it means he couldn't find anyone to help out.
Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.
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Stan Shannon wrote:
ineffective and unworkable
Plainly not
Stan Shannon wrote:
collectivist
Obviously not
Stan Shannon wrote:
centrally planned
As opposed to not planned at all, ad hoc and arbitrary ?
Stan Shannon wrote:
social programs for the purpose of making sure that everyone is poor and starving.
Yes, because if we were to help people in need, we'd all starve. The money/food/etc would just evaporate, right ?
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista.
My description of your attitude is as accurate, fair, and valid as is your's of mine.
Christian Graus wrote:
The money/food/etc would just evaporate, right ?
Economic efficiency feeds more people than does economic inefficiency. At some point, any economy must err on the side of efficiency if it is to survive regardless of the demands that efficiency must place on those at the bottom. My opinion is that it is best to err on the side of expecting every able bodied person to be as productive as they possibly can be, and to rely upon the good will of the society itself to provide for everyone else rather than relying upon a political bureaucracy to manage wealth in a way they feel appropriate by means of forced confiscation of wealth. When I reach into my own pocket to help the less fortunant, it is an honorable, noble, laudable act. When you reach into my pocket for exactly the same purpose, it is nothing but theft.
Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.
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Murdering someone is "having issues"?
Visit http://www.notreadytogiveup.com/[^] and do something special today.
Trollslayer wrote:
Murdering someone is "having issues"?
One could say that they are having major issues. :wtf:
Simply Elegant Designs JimmyRopes Designs
Think inside the box! ProActive Secure Systems
I'm on-line therefore I am. JimmyRopes -
My description of your attitude is as accurate, fair, and valid as is your's of mine.
Christian Graus wrote:
The money/food/etc would just evaporate, right ?
Economic efficiency feeds more people than does economic inefficiency. At some point, any economy must err on the side of efficiency if it is to survive regardless of the demands that efficiency must place on those at the bottom. My opinion is that it is best to err on the side of expecting every able bodied person to be as productive as they possibly can be, and to rely upon the good will of the society itself to provide for everyone else rather than relying upon a political bureaucracy to manage wealth in a way they feel appropriate by means of forced confiscation of wealth. When I reach into my own pocket to help the less fortunant, it is an honorable, noble, laudable act. When you reach into my pocket for exactly the same purpose, it is nothing but theft.
Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.
Stan Shannon wrote:
Economic efficiency feeds more people than does economic inefficiency
It will produce more, creating the POTENTIAL to feed more people. So long as the food ends up with the people.
Stan Shannon wrote:
My opinion is that it is best to err on the side of expecting every able bodied person to be as productive as they possibly can be
I agree
Stan Shannon wrote:
and to rely upon the good will of the society itself
Well, this is precisely where your plan falls down.
Stan Shannon wrote:
When I reach into my own pocket to help the less fortunant, it is an honorable, noble, laudable act. When you reach into my pocket for exactly the same purpose, it is nothing but theft
No, not if the government is reaching into your pocket, and in doing so, is reflecting the will of the people. If you do it, it's random and cannot be expected to occur. You invite a world where how good a mood you're in, decides if others live or die.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista.
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RichardM1 wrote:
You seem to have a one sided view of guns.
What, I think they are for shooting things ? What else are they for ?
RichardM1 wrote:
I don't see you calling for the banning of swords, bow and arrows, etc.
Yeah, there's a real issue with bow and arrow deaths, robberys done with swords, etc. I think ownership of such things should be equally restricted, but it sure as hell isn't as much of a problem.
RichardM1 wrote:
When someone points out there bad uses, you put them down.
No-one has brought up swords and bows and arrows. So far, the list is knives, and cars. Cars kill more people than guns, therefore guns should not be banned until cars are. THAT is the definition of retarded.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista.
Christian Graus wrote:
What, I think they are for shooting things ? What else are they for ?
Do you think knives are for more than cutting things? But you see utility in that. I see utility in shooting. I enjoy it, not for killing things, which I have done and found I don't enjoy. But should I have to kill someone to protect my family, I hope I will be able to. In the mean time, I enjoy putting holes in paper, at a distance. Personally, I go a different route, I believe that guns are in the 2nd amendment because they were the 'superweapon' of the era. If it was written now, it would probably be more specific - the citizens would be allowed to have any weapon the government was allowed to have. Remember, this was written by people who saw the utility in the citizens being able to rise up and overthrow the government. Not that I advocate that for any reason other than for the protection of the constitution.
Silver member by constant and unflinching longevity.
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RichardM1 wrote:
Luckily, the police were right there to stop her husband, or she might have died.
Exactly my point. The current system plainly cannot stop EVERY murder, but arming the populace, plainly can. I do think the US needs to do background checks before deciding which immigrants are given a gun on entry to the country, I mean, we don't want to go overboard.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista.
Haha, I get it - sarcasm. But in your sarcasm, you blow off the real issue - this woman had followed every step the government required of her, for the government to defend her, and it did no. Oh, hey, suck it up, the government wasn't there to protect you - that is clearly a better situation that her being able to defend herself. People have the right to self defense. You would take away that right. No no, I would just take away guns, so everyone would be safer. The woman had her head chopped off, she wasn't shot.
Silver member by constant and unflinching longevity.
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My description of your attitude is as accurate, fair, and valid as is your's of mine.
Christian Graus wrote:
The money/food/etc would just evaporate, right ?
Economic efficiency feeds more people than does economic inefficiency. At some point, any economy must err on the side of efficiency if it is to survive regardless of the demands that efficiency must place on those at the bottom. My opinion is that it is best to err on the side of expecting every able bodied person to be as productive as they possibly can be, and to rely upon the good will of the society itself to provide for everyone else rather than relying upon a political bureaucracy to manage wealth in a way they feel appropriate by means of forced confiscation of wealth. When I reach into my own pocket to help the less fortunant, it is an honorable, noble, laudable act. When you reach into my pocket for exactly the same purpose, it is nothing but theft.
Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.
Stan Shannon wrote:
When I reach into my own pocket to help the less fortunant, it is an honorable, noble, laudable act. When you reach into my pocket for exactly the same purpose, it is nothing but theft.
When I feed the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the poor are hungry, they call me a communist. ~ Mother Teresa
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Algoraphobia: An exaggerated fear of the outside world rooted in the belief that one might spontaneously combust due to global warming.
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Christian Graus wrote:
What, I think they are for shooting things ? What else are they for ?
Do you think knives are for more than cutting things? But you see utility in that. I see utility in shooting. I enjoy it, not for killing things, which I have done and found I don't enjoy. But should I have to kill someone to protect my family, I hope I will be able to. In the mean time, I enjoy putting holes in paper, at a distance. Personally, I go a different route, I believe that guns are in the 2nd amendment because they were the 'superweapon' of the era. If it was written now, it would probably be more specific - the citizens would be allowed to have any weapon the government was allowed to have. Remember, this was written by people who saw the utility in the citizens being able to rise up and overthrow the government. Not that I advocate that for any reason other than for the protection of the constitution.
Silver member by constant and unflinching longevity.
RichardM1 wrote:
Do you think knives are for more than cutting things?
All of their uses revolve around cutting things, yes. Just like all the uses of a hammer, are hitting things ( unless it's a claw hammer ). But, you can have a real need to cut things that don't involve causing anyone any harm.
RichardM1 wrote:
I see utility in shooting. I enjoy it, not for killing things, which I have done and found I don't enjoy.
Well, you're talking about a hobby now, shooting at targets. The only reason people pursue such a hobby, is so they can be good at using a gun to hurt people.
RichardM1 wrote:
But should I have to kill someone to protect my family, I hope I will be able to.
See what I mean ?
RichardM1 wrote:
n the mean time, I enjoy putting holes in paper, at a distance.
OK, good for you. I mean, that's fine. BUT, given the inherent danger in the activity, surely you're not suggesting that you should be able to have a gun at home and set up targets in your backyard ?
RichardM1 wrote:
I believe that guns are in the 2nd amendment because they were the 'superweapon' of the era.
Correct, and that's why the suggestion that gun ownership keeps your government honest, is really pathetic.
RichardM1 wrote:
If it was written now, it would probably be more specific - the citizens would be allowed to have any weapon the government was allowed to have.
Assuming the citizens could afford to buy them.
RichardM1 wrote:
Remember, this was written by people who saw the utility in the citizens being able to rise up and overthrow the government
And I'm sure there was a time when this could have been done. Not anymore.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista.
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Haha, I get it - sarcasm. But in your sarcasm, you blow off the real issue - this woman had followed every step the government required of her, for the government to defend her, and it did no. Oh, hey, suck it up, the government wasn't there to protect you - that is clearly a better situation that her being able to defend herself. People have the right to self defense. You would take away that right. No no, I would just take away guns, so everyone would be safer. The woman had her head chopped off, she wasn't shot.
Silver member by constant and unflinching longevity.
RichardM1 wrote:
this woman had followed every step the government required of her, for the government to defend her, and it did no.
This woman appears to me to be a moron. The government isn't going to protect you in that situation, at least not easily. Owning a gun is not the answer, what she should have done, if she had any real idea of the danger she was in, was got out of dodge. It's a tragedy, but if she had a gun, she'd still be dead, I have no doubt of that. And if she wasn't, for every woman saved, 3 innocent guys would be shot dead by a scared woman walking the same path home late at night.
RichardM1 wrote:
that is clearly a better situation that her being able to defend herself.
The argument is BS. Simple as that. What I am trying to point out, is that arming all the citizens does not create a law abiding society. It creates anarchy, where might is right and the weak die.
RichardM1 wrote:
. You would take away that right.
Well, no, that's a pile of crap.
RichardM1 wrote:
No no, I would just take away guns, so everyone would be safer.
Yes, exactly. Arming everyone would not make everyone safe at all.
RichardM1 wrote:
The woman had her head chopped off, she wasn't shot.
And if he had reason to believe she was armed, he may have shot her instead. Your core point appears to be that because one woman who was not armed, died, that proves that people not having guns and relying on police protection won't stop all murders. So, I assume you're claiming that if everyone was armed, no murders would take place. Otherwise, you've got nothing. Is that your position ?
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista.
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RichardM1 wrote:
Do you think knives are for more than cutting things?
All of their uses revolve around cutting things, yes. Just like all the uses of a hammer, are hitting things ( unless it's a claw hammer ). But, you can have a real need to cut things that don't involve causing anyone any harm.
RichardM1 wrote:
I see utility in shooting. I enjoy it, not for killing things, which I have done and found I don't enjoy.
Well, you're talking about a hobby now, shooting at targets. The only reason people pursue such a hobby, is so they can be good at using a gun to hurt people.
RichardM1 wrote:
But should I have to kill someone to protect my family, I hope I will be able to.
See what I mean ?
RichardM1 wrote:
n the mean time, I enjoy putting holes in paper, at a distance.
OK, good for you. I mean, that's fine. BUT, given the inherent danger in the activity, surely you're not suggesting that you should be able to have a gun at home and set up targets in your backyard ?
RichardM1 wrote:
I believe that guns are in the 2nd amendment because they were the 'superweapon' of the era.
Correct, and that's why the suggestion that gun ownership keeps your government honest, is really pathetic.
RichardM1 wrote:
If it was written now, it would probably be more specific - the citizens would be allowed to have any weapon the government was allowed to have.
Assuming the citizens could afford to buy them.
RichardM1 wrote:
Remember, this was written by people who saw the utility in the citizens being able to rise up and overthrow the government
And I'm sure there was a time when this could have been done. Not anymore.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista.
Christian Graus wrote:
The only reason people pursue such a hobby, is so they can be good at using a gun to hurt people.
You have no idea why I enjoy it. You think you can just say it and it's true? I sharpen knives because I like to, sometimes. I throw knives, sometimes. Not because I can use them in self defense, but because I like to. If it is the only thing I have to protect myself, I will run someone over, hit them with a baseball bat, whatever. That does not make that the primary use of the thing, any more than it makes killing people the primary reason i own guns. Whether you will admit it or not, guns are an interesting hobby, for other reasons than killing people. You seem to be really fixated on them. Did you have a bad experience with them? Someone close hurt or killed? I'm not being sarcastic, I'm curious.
Silver member by constant and unflinching longevity.
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RichardM1 wrote:
Do you think knives are for more than cutting things?
All of their uses revolve around cutting things, yes. Just like all the uses of a hammer, are hitting things ( unless it's a claw hammer ). But, you can have a real need to cut things that don't involve causing anyone any harm.
RichardM1 wrote:
I see utility in shooting. I enjoy it, not for killing things, which I have done and found I don't enjoy.
Well, you're talking about a hobby now, shooting at targets. The only reason people pursue such a hobby, is so they can be good at using a gun to hurt people.
RichardM1 wrote:
But should I have to kill someone to protect my family, I hope I will be able to.
See what I mean ?
RichardM1 wrote:
n the mean time, I enjoy putting holes in paper, at a distance.
OK, good for you. I mean, that's fine. BUT, given the inherent danger in the activity, surely you're not suggesting that you should be able to have a gun at home and set up targets in your backyard ?
RichardM1 wrote:
I believe that guns are in the 2nd amendment because they were the 'superweapon' of the era.
Correct, and that's why the suggestion that gun ownership keeps your government honest, is really pathetic.
RichardM1 wrote:
If it was written now, it would probably be more specific - the citizens would be allowed to have any weapon the government was allowed to have.
Assuming the citizens could afford to buy them.
RichardM1 wrote:
Remember, this was written by people who saw the utility in the citizens being able to rise up and overthrow the government
And I'm sure there was a time when this could have been done. Not anymore.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista.
Christian Graus wrote:
OK, good for you. I mean, that's fine. BUT, given the inherent danger in the activity, surely you're not suggesting that you should be able to have a gun at home and set up targets in your backyard ?
No. For it to be interesting, I would have to shoot through my neighbor's house. But that is just because I live in a town house. But If I wanted to set up a range in my basement, with a backstop appropriate to the caliber used, tell me again why you should care anymore than you should care that I use my car safely?
Silver member by constant and unflinching longevity.
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RichardM1 wrote:
Do you think knives are for more than cutting things?
All of their uses revolve around cutting things, yes. Just like all the uses of a hammer, are hitting things ( unless it's a claw hammer ). But, you can have a real need to cut things that don't involve causing anyone any harm.
RichardM1 wrote:
I see utility in shooting. I enjoy it, not for killing things, which I have done and found I don't enjoy.
Well, you're talking about a hobby now, shooting at targets. The only reason people pursue such a hobby, is so they can be good at using a gun to hurt people.
RichardM1 wrote:
But should I have to kill someone to protect my family, I hope I will be able to.
See what I mean ?
RichardM1 wrote:
n the mean time, I enjoy putting holes in paper, at a distance.
OK, good for you. I mean, that's fine. BUT, given the inherent danger in the activity, surely you're not suggesting that you should be able to have a gun at home and set up targets in your backyard ?
RichardM1 wrote:
I believe that guns are in the 2nd amendment because they were the 'superweapon' of the era.
Correct, and that's why the suggestion that gun ownership keeps your government honest, is really pathetic.
RichardM1 wrote:
If it was written now, it would probably be more specific - the citizens would be allowed to have any weapon the government was allowed to have.
Assuming the citizens could afford to buy them.
RichardM1 wrote:
Remember, this was written by people who saw the utility in the citizens being able to rise up and overthrow the government
And I'm sure there was a time when this could have been done. Not anymore.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista.
Christian Graus wrote:
And I'm sure there was a time when this could have been done. Not anymore.
See what giving exclusive ownership of high power weapons to the government has done? We are no longer is a position to throw off the tyranny of the government if it gets out of control. It is not just an exercise in reasoning. It is how the US started.
Silver member by constant and unflinching longevity.
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Christian Graus wrote:
The only reason people pursue such a hobby, is so they can be good at using a gun to hurt people.
You have no idea why I enjoy it. You think you can just say it and it's true? I sharpen knives because I like to, sometimes. I throw knives, sometimes. Not because I can use them in self defense, but because I like to. If it is the only thing I have to protect myself, I will run someone over, hit them with a baseball bat, whatever. That does not make that the primary use of the thing, any more than it makes killing people the primary reason i own guns. Whether you will admit it or not, guns are an interesting hobby, for other reasons than killing people. You seem to be really fixated on them. Did you have a bad experience with them? Someone close hurt or killed? I'm not being sarcastic, I'm curious.
Silver member by constant and unflinching longevity.
RichardM1 wrote:
You have no idea why I enjoy it. You think you can just say it and it's true?
The only usefulness of such a hobby, is to get better at shooting a gun, the purpose of which is.....
RichardM1 wrote:
You seem to be really fixated on them. Did you have a bad experience with them? Someone close hurt or killed? I'm not being sarcastic, I'm curious.
No, just fascinated by the stream of idiocy I've encountered online in defense of gun ownership from people who I'd generally regard as intelligent. I live in Australia, where the odds of such a thing happening are far lower than in the US.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista.
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Christian Graus wrote:
OK, good for you. I mean, that's fine. BUT, given the inherent danger in the activity, surely you're not suggesting that you should be able to have a gun at home and set up targets in your backyard ?
No. For it to be interesting, I would have to shoot through my neighbor's house. But that is just because I live in a town house. But If I wanted to set up a range in my basement, with a backstop appropriate to the caliber used, tell me again why you should care anymore than you should care that I use my car safely?
Silver member by constant and unflinching longevity.
RichardM1 wrote:
But If I wanted to set up a range in my basement, with a backstop appropriate to the caliber used, tell me again why you should care anymore than you should care that I use my car safely?
So long as you do it safely and responsibly, my concern would not be with you specifically, more with the general society that would allow you to have guns in your house, and ( going back to your original statement ) would encourage people to carry guns for protection.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista.
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Christian Graus wrote:
And I'm sure there was a time when this could have been done. Not anymore.
See what giving exclusive ownership of high power weapons to the government has done? We are no longer is a position to throw off the tyranny of the government if it gets out of control. It is not just an exercise in reasoning. It is how the US started.
Silver member by constant and unflinching longevity.
RichardM1 wrote:
See what giving exclusive ownership of high power weapons to the government has done?
Won two world wars ? Are you saying the government should not have been allowed to develop battleships or nukes until the market was able to produce them at affordable prices ?
RichardM1 wrote:
We are no longer is a position to throw off the tyranny of the government if it gets out of control.
You have not been for a long, long time, and the main reason is that most people don't care. Government IS out of control.
RichardM1 wrote:
It is not just an exercise in reasoning. It is how the US started.
In theory. Australia started as a prison, that doesn't mean that things can't change over time.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista.