Drive much?
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I think Chris has a point, and besides, how ELSE are we going to pay to keep our roads around? I was in florida for a while (I live in CA) and their Toll system is absolutely infuriating, but you can't get anywhere without it! (at a reasonable speed, anyway)
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Well, if they must, then why not erect a billion toll booths? Lots of new jobs, much cheaper to do, no socialist big brother. But then, that just might defeat the real purpose. ;)
Visit BoneSoft.com for code generation tools (XML & XSD -> C#, VB, etc...) and some free developer tools as well.
BoneSoft wrote:
billion toll booths
Funny, you should mention that. The highway that surrounds a local city here has these things that look like light poles with a solar panel near the top, about half way down the pole is a small box about the size of a usb hard drive pointed at an angle towards the road. Poles are about a quarter mile apart. I asked our state senator, "what's up with these polls", he said that they are for a future fare collection system for this city's beltway.
MrPlankton
The Second Amendment, the Reset Button on the Constitution -
Well it seems that the hefty federal gas taxes in the good ole US of A aren't enough.[^] So, you allowed social engineering (high tax per gallon) to push you into a smaller or greener vehicle and thought you were doing yourself a favor: more pricey vehicle, but gosh you get better mileage and we all ultimately save. Right? Well thank you very much, now we'll have to tax you on the basis of miles driven. and just think of the vehicle tracking possibilities! big brother would probably have ever so many opportunities to save you from yourself. pitchforks, the investment opportunity of 2009 and beyond.
Mike - typical white guy. The USA does have universal healthcare, but you have to pay for it. D'oh. Thomas Mann - "Tolerance becomes a crime when applied to evil." The NYT - my leftist brochure. Calling an illegal alien an “undocumented immigrant” is like calling a drug dealer an “unlicensed pharmacist”. God doesn't believe in atheists, therefore they don't exist.
Mike Gaskey wrote:
Well it seems that the hefty federal gas taxes in the good ole US of A aren't enough.[^] So, you allowed social engineering (high tax per gallon) to push you into a smaller or greener vehicle and thought you were doing yourself a favor: more pricey vehicle, but gosh you get better mileage and we all ultimately save. Right? Well thank you very much, now we'll have to tax you on the basis of miles driven.
You post a link to an article saying the Obama Administration will not be imposing a mileage tax!!! You really are desperate to complain about something aren't you.
John Carson
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Mike Gaskey wrote:
Well it seems that the hefty federal gas taxes in the good ole US of A aren't enough.[^] So, you allowed social engineering (high tax per gallon) to push you into a smaller or greener vehicle and thought you were doing yourself a favor: more pricey vehicle, but gosh you get better mileage and we all ultimately save. Right? Well thank you very much, now we'll have to tax you on the basis of miles driven.
You post a link to an article saying the Obama Administration will not be imposing a mileage tax!!! You really are desperate to complain about something aren't you.
John Carson
John Carson wrote:
You post a link to an article saying the Obama Administration will not be imposing a mileage tax!!!
Not being the expert on Australia you offer yourself up to be on the US, I must ask: over there, do you find that politicians usually tell the truth? I've noticed that very few folks holding office, or running for it, on this side of the big puddle tell us what they are actually planning on doing. For instance, LBJ was elected as the peace candidate, Nixon was the arch conservative totally opposed to dealing with China, etc. Usually, it appears to me, folks in Washington tell us that they are opposed to doing something that no-one thought they were going to do, as a trial balloon before initiating a plan to do exactly that. Now I recognize that according to the Harris Poll, Obama is more popular than Jesus and I suspect that means there are likely some folks who think he can walk on water, feed the multitudes with 5 loves and 3 fishes, and would never lie, but I didn't think you were the sort went to that church - are you?
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Algoraphobia: An exaggerated fear of the outside world rooted in the belief that one might spontaneously combust due to global warming.
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Mike Gaskey wrote:
Well it seems that the hefty federal gas taxes in the good ole US of A aren't enough.[^] So, you allowed social engineering (high tax per gallon) to push you into a smaller or greener vehicle and thought you were doing yourself a favor: more pricey vehicle, but gosh you get better mileage and we all ultimately save. Right? Well thank you very much, now we'll have to tax you on the basis of miles driven.
You post a link to an article saying the Obama Administration will not be imposing a mileage tax!!! You really are desperate to complain about something aren't you.
John Carson
John Carson wrote:
You post a link to an article saying the Obama Administration will not be imposing a mileage tax!!! You really are desperate to complain about something aren't you.
John, do you not understand the concept of a trial balloon?
Mike - typical white guy. The USA does have universal healthcare, but you have to pay for it. D'oh. Thomas Mann - "Tolerance becomes a crime when applied to evil." The NYT - my leftist brochure. Calling an illegal alien an “undocumented immigrant” is like calling a drug dealer an “unlicensed pharmacist”. God doesn't believe in atheists, therefore they don't exist.
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John Carson wrote:
You post a link to an article saying the Obama Administration will not be imposing a mileage tax!!!
Not being the expert on Australia you offer yourself up to be on the US, I must ask: over there, do you find that politicians usually tell the truth? I've noticed that very few folks holding office, or running for it, on this side of the big puddle tell us what they are actually planning on doing. For instance, LBJ was elected as the peace candidate, Nixon was the arch conservative totally opposed to dealing with China, etc. Usually, it appears to me, folks in Washington tell us that they are opposed to doing something that no-one thought they were going to do, as a trial balloon before initiating a plan to do exactly that. Now I recognize that according to the Harris Poll, Obama is more popular than Jesus and I suspect that means there are likely some folks who think he can walk on water, feed the multitudes with 5 loves and 3 fishes, and would never lie, but I didn't think you were the sort went to that church - are you?
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Algoraphobia: An exaggerated fear of the outside world rooted in the belief that one might spontaneously combust due to global warming.
Oakman wrote:
Not being the expert on Australia you offer yourself up to be on the US, I must ask: over there, do you find that politicians usually tell the truth? I've noticed that very few folks holding office, or running for it, on this side of the big puddle tell us what they are actually planning on doing. For instance, LBJ was elected as the peace candidate, Nixon was the arch conservative totally opposed to dealing with China, etc. Usually, it appears to me, folks in Washington tell us that they are opposed to doing something that no-one thought they were going to do, as a trial balloon before initiating a plan to do exactly that.
Politicians often mislead, but it is rarely gratuitous. It is a way of handling difficult political pressures and/or coping with unforeseen events. The political logic behind this particular proposal is so dubious that the proposal certainly isn't worth the political cost of being seen to have been dishonest. A mileage tax would be technically difficult to implement and the obvious solutions raise politically problematic privacy concerns. While there is some economic logic to a mileage tax (as a reflection of road usage costs), it is politically a much tougher sell than fuel economy initiatives and somewhat confuses the political message with regard to the latter. All this and the White House denial are enough to tell me that the proposal isn't going to happen. The "trial balloon" on this occasion was floated by Ray LaHood, one of the two Republican Secretaries in the Adminstration. I think it is far more likely that he is out of the loop in terms of White House thinking than that he is acting as a scout for a secret White House plan. <edit> It seems to me that we are getting an endless succession of scare mongering stories regarding the Obama administration, few of which, if any, are ever going to amount to anything. </edit>
John Carson
modified on Friday, February 20, 2009 8:10 PM
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John Carson wrote:
You post a link to an article saying the Obama Administration will not be imposing a mileage tax!!! You really are desperate to complain about something aren't you.
John, do you not understand the concept of a trial balloon?
Mike - typical white guy. The USA does have universal healthcare, but you have to pay for it. D'oh. Thomas Mann - "Tolerance becomes a crime when applied to evil." The NYT - my leftist brochure. Calling an illegal alien an “undocumented immigrant” is like calling a drug dealer an “unlicensed pharmacist”. God doesn't believe in atheists, therefore they don't exist.
Mike Gaskey wrote:
John, do you not understand the concept of a trial balloon?
If that is what this was, then it has been shot down. As I remark elsewhere, LaHood is one of only two Republican Secretaries in the Administration and I think it more likely that he was out of touch with White House thinking than that he is acting as a scout for a secret White House plan.
John Carson
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Oakman wrote:
Not being the expert on Australia you offer yourself up to be on the US, I must ask: over there, do you find that politicians usually tell the truth? I've noticed that very few folks holding office, or running for it, on this side of the big puddle tell us what they are actually planning on doing. For instance, LBJ was elected as the peace candidate, Nixon was the arch conservative totally opposed to dealing with China, etc. Usually, it appears to me, folks in Washington tell us that they are opposed to doing something that no-one thought they were going to do, as a trial balloon before initiating a plan to do exactly that.
Politicians often mislead, but it is rarely gratuitous. It is a way of handling difficult political pressures and/or coping with unforeseen events. The political logic behind this particular proposal is so dubious that the proposal certainly isn't worth the political cost of being seen to have been dishonest. A mileage tax would be technically difficult to implement and the obvious solutions raise politically problematic privacy concerns. While there is some economic logic to a mileage tax (as a reflection of road usage costs), it is politically a much tougher sell than fuel economy initiatives and somewhat confuses the political message with regard to the latter. All this and the White House denial are enough to tell me that the proposal isn't going to happen. The "trial balloon" on this occasion was floated by Ray LaHood, one of the two Republican Secretaries in the Adminstration. I think it is far more likely that he is out of the loop in terms of White House thinking than that he is acting as a scout for a secret White House plan. <edit> It seems to me that we are getting an endless succession of scare mongering stories regarding the Obama administration, few of which, if any, are ever going to amount to anything. </edit>
John Carson
modified on Friday, February 20, 2009 8:10 PM
John Carson wrote:
Politicians often mislead, but it is rarely gratuitous. It is a way of handling difficult political pressures and/or coping with unforeseen events. The political logic behind this particular proposal is so dubious that the proposal certainly isn't worth the political cost of being seen to have been dishonest.
You may be right - since such a change would take ten years, even you might have trouble suggesting that we spend the money needed to make it happen as part of our next stimulus package. And getting everyone steamed up over the idea would allow Congress to impose a 50% increase in the gas tax as a way of avoiding the mileage tax. They could sell themselves as heroes.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Algoraphobia: An exaggerated fear of the outside world rooted in the belief that one might spontaneously combust due to global warming.
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Mike Gaskey wrote:
John, do you not understand the concept of a trial balloon?
If that is what this was, then it has been shot down. As I remark elsewhere, LaHood is one of only two Republican Secretaries in the Administration and I think it more likely that he was out of touch with White House thinking than that he is acting as a scout for a secret White House plan.
John Carson
John Carson wrote:
As I remark elsewhere, LaHood is one of only two Republican Secretaries in the Administration and I think it more likely that he was out of touch with White House thinking
So Obama just put him in there as a placeholder? No real power, responsibility, or input?
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Algoraphobia: An exaggerated fear of the outside world rooted in the belief that one might spontaneously combust due to global warming.
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John Carson wrote:
As I remark elsewhere, LaHood is one of only two Republican Secretaries in the Administration and I think it more likely that he was out of touch with White House thinking
So Obama just put him in there as a placeholder? No real power, responsibility, or input?
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Algoraphobia: An exaggerated fear of the outside world rooted in the belief that one might spontaneously combust due to global warming.
Oakman wrote:
So Obama just put him in there as a placeholder? No real power, responsibility, or input?
I think he is new in the job. I seem to recall that Obama himself said that he would be setting the agenda. "The change comes from me", not from his cabinet secretaries. Of course LaHood will have power, responsibility and input, but 1. It is not reasonable at this early stage to assume that he speaks for the White House, 2. On any big policy questions, it will ultimately be Obama's call.
John Carson
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Chris Austin wrote:
I'd prefer usage tax versus income tax to fund road and highways.
Any reason to assume that we won't end up with both?
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Algoraphobia: An exaggerated fear of the outside world rooted in the belief that one might spontaneously combust due to global warming.
Not really. I wouldn't expect any state or the federal government to repeal cash-cows like that.
Sovereign ingredient for a happy marriage: Pay cash or do without. Interest charges not only eat up a household budget; awareness of debt eats up domestic felicity. --Lazarus Long Avoid the crowd. Do your own thinking independently. Be the chess player, not the chess piece. --?
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BoneSoft wrote:
billion toll booths
Funny, you should mention that. The highway that surrounds a local city here has these things that look like light poles with a solar panel near the top, about half way down the pole is a small box about the size of a usb hard drive pointed at an angle towards the road. Poles are about a quarter mile apart. I asked our state senator, "what's up with these polls", he said that they are for a future fare collection system for this city's beltway.
MrPlankton
The Second Amendment, the Reset Button on the ConstitutionActually, I noticed something similar here in town. At an intersection that already has a camera mounted on it. I've only seen one, but I haven't been looking for them. I'm kinda starting to wonder if this is still my country...
Visit BoneSoft.com for code generation tools (XML & XSD -> C#, VB, etc...) and some free developer tools as well.
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Oakman wrote:
So Obama just put him in there as a placeholder? No real power, responsibility, or input?
I think he is new in the job. I seem to recall that Obama himself said that he would be setting the agenda. "The change comes from me", not from his cabinet secretaries. Of course LaHood will have power, responsibility and input, but 1. It is not reasonable at this early stage to assume that he speaks for the White House, 2. On any big policy questions, it will ultimately be Obama's call.
John Carson
John Carson wrote:
1. It is not reasonable at this early stage to assume that he speaks for the White House, 2. On any big policy questions, it will ultimately be Obama's call.
Which probably explain why Geitner showed up in Congress, looking like an idiot. Imagine. People actually expected him to have started to deal with the problems! Obviously, it's "Obama's call" and he hasn't thought about it much yet.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Algoraphobia: An exaggerated fear of the outside world rooted in the belief that one might spontaneously combust due to global warming.
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John Carson wrote:
1. It is not reasonable at this early stage to assume that he speaks for the White House, 2. On any big policy questions, it will ultimately be Obama's call.
Which probably explain why Geitner showed up in Congress, looking like an idiot. Imagine. People actually expected him to have started to deal with the problems! Obviously, it's "Obama's call" and he hasn't thought about it much yet.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Algoraphobia: An exaggerated fear of the outside world rooted in the belief that one might spontaneously combust due to global warming.
Oakman wrote:
Which probably explain why Geitner showed up in Congress, looking like an idiot. Imagine. People actually expected him to have started to deal with the problems! Obviously, it's "Obama's call" and he hasn't thought about it much yet.
I'm sure he has thought about it, but difficult problems can take more than a week or two's thought.
John Carson
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Well it seems that the hefty federal gas taxes in the good ole US of A aren't enough.[^] So, you allowed social engineering (high tax per gallon) to push you into a smaller or greener vehicle and thought you were doing yourself a favor: more pricey vehicle, but gosh you get better mileage and we all ultimately save. Right? Well thank you very much, now we'll have to tax you on the basis of miles driven. and just think of the vehicle tracking possibilities! big brother would probably have ever so many opportunities to save you from yourself. pitchforks, the investment opportunity of 2009 and beyond.
Mike - typical white guy. The USA does have universal healthcare, but you have to pay for it. D'oh. Thomas Mann - "Tolerance becomes a crime when applied to evil." The NYT - my leftist brochure. Calling an illegal alien an “undocumented immigrant” is like calling a drug dealer an “unlicensed pharmacist”. God doesn't believe in atheists, therefore they don't exist.
That seriously will not work and there will be serious opposition to it. You will never see me installing one of these devices in my vehicle and its laughable to think I'm going to pay any type of tax associated with this.
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Dude. I was giving an opinion on a set of proposals that are in an early state. We can't come up with something that will make everyone happy. But, if I was asked I'd take the one that favors my situation the most.
Sovereign ingredient for a happy marriage: Pay cash or do without. Interest charges not only eat up a household budget; awareness of debt eats up domestic felicity. --Lazarus Long Avoid the crowd. Do your own thinking independently. Be the chess player, not the chess piece. --?
Use your brain moron!
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Oakman wrote:
Which probably explain why Geitner showed up in Congress, looking like an idiot. Imagine. People actually expected him to have started to deal with the problems! Obviously, it's "Obama's call" and he hasn't thought about it much yet.
I'm sure he has thought about it, but difficult problems can take more than a week or two's thought.
John Carson
John Carson wrote:
I'm sure he has thought about it, but difficult problems can take more than a week or two's thought.
I was sure someone had told him he was elected almost sixteen weeks ago. Maybe he should have spent some time thinking about this problem instead of vacationing in Hawaii. It is rather important, you know - probably more important than getting the whores off the street in Louisianna - something which he has taken action on.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Algoraphobia: An exaggerated fear of the outside world rooted in the belief that one might spontaneously combust due to global warming.
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That seriously will not work and there will be serious opposition to it. You will never see me installing one of these devices in my vehicle and its laughable to think I'm going to pay any type of tax associated with this.
CSS_Shadow(); wrote:
You will never see me installing one of these devices in my vehicle
No of course not. You would have to own a vehicle first.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Algoraphobia: An exaggerated fear of the outside world rooted in the belief that one might spontaneously combust due to global warming.
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John Carson wrote:
I'm sure he has thought about it, but difficult problems can take more than a week or two's thought.
I was sure someone had told him he was elected almost sixteen weeks ago. Maybe he should have spent some time thinking about this problem instead of vacationing in Hawaii. It is rather important, you know - probably more important than getting the whores off the street in Louisianna - something which he has taken action on.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Algoraphobia: An exaggerated fear of the outside world rooted in the belief that one might spontaneously combust due to global warming.
Oakman wrote:
I was sure someone had told him he was elected almost sixteen weeks ago. Maybe he should have spent some time thinking about this problem instead of vacationing in Hawaii. It is rather important, you know - probably more important than getting the whores off the street in Louisianna - something which he has taken action on.
I misunderstood your previous comment. I thought "he" referred to Geitner. Plainly it is up to the professional economists to come up with detailed plans. Obama gets to choose from a menu of plans (or perhaps a menu of future plans that are sketched in outline); Obama doesn't design the plan.
John Carson
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Oakman wrote:
I was sure someone had told him he was elected almost sixteen weeks ago. Maybe he should have spent some time thinking about this problem instead of vacationing in Hawaii. It is rather important, you know - probably more important than getting the whores off the street in Louisianna - something which he has taken action on.
I misunderstood your previous comment. I thought "he" referred to Geitner. Plainly it is up to the professional economists to come up with detailed plans. Obama gets to choose from a menu of plans (or perhaps a menu of future plans that are sketched in outline); Obama doesn't design the plan.
John Carson
John Carson wrote:
Plainly it is up to the professional economists to come up with detailed plans. Obama gets to choose from a menu of plans (or perhaps a menu of future plans that are sketched in outline); Obama doesn't design the plan.
I assumed that's how it worked, too. Presumably that's why Larry Summers, and perhaps some others who were entitled economic advisors, were talking about what needed to be done as long ago as last summer. I find it curious indeed, that Obama hasn't been offered that menu of choices and even more curious, almost frightening, that Geitner explains that he (who as Chairman of the FR Bank of New York has been intimately involved with all of the attempts to jump start the economy) has only been thinking about the problem "for a couple of weeks." It really was quite clear that the Bush administration leaned over backwards to make the transition as smooth as possible (a little surprising, when you remember that the Clinton administration did everything they could, including sabotaging the keyboards of white house computers, to give Bush a rough start) so I would have assumed that the Obama senior staff might have started working on the problems they faced before the second Monday in November. Apparently I was wrong. :-O btw: I've balanced your unavoter. Your answers are clear, precise and not ad hominem. That I, or someone, doesn't agree with you doesn't mean that your views should be grayed out. (imho)
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Algoraphobia: An exaggerated fear of the outside world rooted in the belief that one might spontaneously combust due to global warming.