Drive much?
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Chris Austin wrote:
Mike has his own opinion and I have mine
ain't it grand? but on this same issue, I seriously doubt that fuel taxes are aggregated then targeted to road maintenance and development. the net effect of a mileage tax would be to simply put more money into the hands of fools who'll use it to get re-elected by building a statue or builidng dedicated to someone or other.
Mike - typical white guy. The USA does have universal healthcare, but you have to pay for it. D'oh. Thomas Mann - "Tolerance becomes a crime when applied to evil." The NYT - my leftist brochure. Calling an illegal alien an “undocumented immigrant” is like calling a drug dealer an “unlicensed pharmacist”. God doesn't believe in atheists, therefore they don't exist.
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Chris Austin wrote:
Mike has his own opinion and I have mine
ain't it grand? but on this same issue, I seriously doubt that fuel taxes are aggregated then targeted to road maintenance and development. the net effect of a mileage tax would be to simply put more money into the hands of fools who'll use it to get re-elected by building a statue or builidng dedicated to someone or other.
Mike - typical white guy. The USA does have universal healthcare, but you have to pay for it. D'oh. Thomas Mann - "Tolerance becomes a crime when applied to evil." The NYT - my leftist brochure. Calling an illegal alien an “undocumented immigrant” is like calling a drug dealer an “unlicensed pharmacist”. God doesn't believe in atheists, therefore they don't exist.
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Mike Gaskey wrote:
by building a statue or builidng dedicated to someone or other.
Yeah, but what if it was dedicated to you? ;P
led mike wrote:
what if it was dedicated to you?
then the restuarant better serve some of this[^] and this[^] and this[^].
Mike - typical white guy. The USA does have universal healthcare, but you have to pay for it. D'oh. Thomas Mann - "Tolerance becomes a crime when applied to evil." The NYT - my leftist brochure. Calling an illegal alien an “undocumented immigrant” is like calling a drug dealer an “unlicensed pharmacist”. God doesn't believe in atheists, therefore they don't exist.
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Well, if they must, then why not erect a billion toll booths? Lots of new jobs, much cheaper to do, no socialist big brother. But then, that just might defeat the real purpose. ;)
Visit BoneSoft.com for code generation tools (XML & XSD -> C#, VB, etc...) and some free developer tools as well.
BoneSoft wrote:
why not erect a billion toll booths?
far too logical.
Mike - typical white guy. The USA does have universal healthcare, but you have to pay for it. D'oh. Thomas Mann - "Tolerance becomes a crime when applied to evil." The NYT - my leftist brochure. Calling an illegal alien an “undocumented immigrant” is like calling a drug dealer an “unlicensed pharmacist”. God doesn't believe in atheists, therefore they don't exist.
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Chris Austin wrote:
Mike has his own opinion and I have mine
ain't it grand? but on this same issue, I seriously doubt that fuel taxes are aggregated then targeted to road maintenance and development. the net effect of a mileage tax would be to simply put more money into the hands of fools who'll use it to get re-elected by building a statue or builidng dedicated to someone or other.
Mike - typical white guy. The USA does have universal healthcare, but you have to pay for it. D'oh. Thomas Mann - "Tolerance becomes a crime when applied to evil." The NYT - my leftist brochure. Calling an illegal alien an “undocumented immigrant” is like calling a drug dealer an “unlicensed pharmacist”. God doesn't believe in atheists, therefore they don't exist.
Mike Gaskey wrote:
I seriously doubt that fuel taxes are aggregated then targeted to road maintenance
Actually, the Federal taxes are largely dedicated[^] (a small percentage goes to mass transit). State gasoline taxes[^] on the other hand, are often still abused for general fund use, and can be the bigger portion.
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Chris Austin wrote:
Mike has his own opinion and I have mine.
If they change from a gas tax to a mileage tax, that changes the usage tax distribution between vehicles which vary in consumption. Isn't that a fact and not an opinion? :confused:
Dude. I was giving an opinion on a set of proposals that are in an early state. We can't come up with something that will make everyone happy. But, if I was asked I'd take the one that favors my situation the most.
Sovereign ingredient for a happy marriage: Pay cash or do without. Interest charges not only eat up a household budget; awareness of debt eats up domestic felicity. --Lazarus Long Avoid the crowd. Do your own thinking independently. Be the chess player, not the chess piece. --?
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led mike wrote:
what if it was dedicated to you?
then the restuarant better serve some of this[^] and this[^] and this[^].
Mike - typical white guy. The USA does have universal healthcare, but you have to pay for it. D'oh. Thomas Mann - "Tolerance becomes a crime when applied to evil." The NYT - my leftist brochure. Calling an illegal alien an “undocumented immigrant” is like calling a drug dealer an “unlicensed pharmacist”. God doesn't believe in atheists, therefore they don't exist.
mmmmmmm I was in New York City for my first time this past year. I was actually there the week the first financial collapse events took place. Anyway I had the best sausage I've ever tasted in a plate of Bangers and Mash at a little pub one block off of of Times Square. link[^] if you are ever there.
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Dude. I was giving an opinion on a set of proposals that are in an early state. We can't come up with something that will make everyone happy. But, if I was asked I'd take the one that favors my situation the most.
Sovereign ingredient for a happy marriage: Pay cash or do without. Interest charges not only eat up a household budget; awareness of debt eats up domestic felicity. --Lazarus Long Avoid the crowd. Do your own thinking independently. Be the chess player, not the chess piece. --?
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Ignoring the tracking possibilities; I'd prefer usage tax versus income tax to fund road and highways. In the end, I don't know if it would be any better than the tax per gallon which is in essence a de-facto usage tax.
Sovereign ingredient for a happy marriage: Pay cash or do without. Interest charges not only eat up a household budget; awareness of debt eats up domestic felicity. --Lazarus Long Avoid the crowd. Do your own thinking independently. Be the chess player, not the chess piece. --?
Chris Austin wrote:
I'd prefer usage tax versus income tax to fund road and highways.
Any reason to assume that we won't end up with both?
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Algoraphobia: An exaggerated fear of the outside world rooted in the belief that one might spontaneously combust due to global warming.
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I think Chris has a point, and besides, how ELSE are we going to pay to keep our roads around? I was in florida for a while (I live in CA) and their Toll system is absolutely infuriating, but you can't get anywhere without it! (at a reasonable speed, anyway)
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Well, if they must, then why not erect a billion toll booths? Lots of new jobs, much cheaper to do, no socialist big brother. But then, that just might defeat the real purpose. ;)
Visit BoneSoft.com for code generation tools (XML & XSD -> C#, VB, etc...) and some free developer tools as well.
BoneSoft wrote:
billion toll booths
Funny, you should mention that. The highway that surrounds a local city here has these things that look like light poles with a solar panel near the top, about half way down the pole is a small box about the size of a usb hard drive pointed at an angle towards the road. Poles are about a quarter mile apart. I asked our state senator, "what's up with these polls", he said that they are for a future fare collection system for this city's beltway.
MrPlankton
The Second Amendment, the Reset Button on the Constitution -
Well it seems that the hefty federal gas taxes in the good ole US of A aren't enough.[^] So, you allowed social engineering (high tax per gallon) to push you into a smaller or greener vehicle and thought you were doing yourself a favor: more pricey vehicle, but gosh you get better mileage and we all ultimately save. Right? Well thank you very much, now we'll have to tax you on the basis of miles driven. and just think of the vehicle tracking possibilities! big brother would probably have ever so many opportunities to save you from yourself. pitchforks, the investment opportunity of 2009 and beyond.
Mike - typical white guy. The USA does have universal healthcare, but you have to pay for it. D'oh. Thomas Mann - "Tolerance becomes a crime when applied to evil." The NYT - my leftist brochure. Calling an illegal alien an “undocumented immigrant” is like calling a drug dealer an “unlicensed pharmacist”. God doesn't believe in atheists, therefore they don't exist.
Mike Gaskey wrote:
Well it seems that the hefty federal gas taxes in the good ole US of A aren't enough.[^] So, you allowed social engineering (high tax per gallon) to push you into a smaller or greener vehicle and thought you were doing yourself a favor: more pricey vehicle, but gosh you get better mileage and we all ultimately save. Right? Well thank you very much, now we'll have to tax you on the basis of miles driven.
You post a link to an article saying the Obama Administration will not be imposing a mileage tax!!! You really are desperate to complain about something aren't you.
John Carson
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Mike Gaskey wrote:
Well it seems that the hefty federal gas taxes in the good ole US of A aren't enough.[^] So, you allowed social engineering (high tax per gallon) to push you into a smaller or greener vehicle and thought you were doing yourself a favor: more pricey vehicle, but gosh you get better mileage and we all ultimately save. Right? Well thank you very much, now we'll have to tax you on the basis of miles driven.
You post a link to an article saying the Obama Administration will not be imposing a mileage tax!!! You really are desperate to complain about something aren't you.
John Carson
John Carson wrote:
You post a link to an article saying the Obama Administration will not be imposing a mileage tax!!!
Not being the expert on Australia you offer yourself up to be on the US, I must ask: over there, do you find that politicians usually tell the truth? I've noticed that very few folks holding office, or running for it, on this side of the big puddle tell us what they are actually planning on doing. For instance, LBJ was elected as the peace candidate, Nixon was the arch conservative totally opposed to dealing with China, etc. Usually, it appears to me, folks in Washington tell us that they are opposed to doing something that no-one thought they were going to do, as a trial balloon before initiating a plan to do exactly that. Now I recognize that according to the Harris Poll, Obama is more popular than Jesus and I suspect that means there are likely some folks who think he can walk on water, feed the multitudes with 5 loves and 3 fishes, and would never lie, but I didn't think you were the sort went to that church - are you?
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Algoraphobia: An exaggerated fear of the outside world rooted in the belief that one might spontaneously combust due to global warming.
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Mike Gaskey wrote:
Well it seems that the hefty federal gas taxes in the good ole US of A aren't enough.[^] So, you allowed social engineering (high tax per gallon) to push you into a smaller or greener vehicle and thought you were doing yourself a favor: more pricey vehicle, but gosh you get better mileage and we all ultimately save. Right? Well thank you very much, now we'll have to tax you on the basis of miles driven.
You post a link to an article saying the Obama Administration will not be imposing a mileage tax!!! You really are desperate to complain about something aren't you.
John Carson
John Carson wrote:
You post a link to an article saying the Obama Administration will not be imposing a mileage tax!!! You really are desperate to complain about something aren't you.
John, do you not understand the concept of a trial balloon?
Mike - typical white guy. The USA does have universal healthcare, but you have to pay for it. D'oh. Thomas Mann - "Tolerance becomes a crime when applied to evil." The NYT - my leftist brochure. Calling an illegal alien an “undocumented immigrant” is like calling a drug dealer an “unlicensed pharmacist”. God doesn't believe in atheists, therefore they don't exist.
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John Carson wrote:
You post a link to an article saying the Obama Administration will not be imposing a mileage tax!!!
Not being the expert on Australia you offer yourself up to be on the US, I must ask: over there, do you find that politicians usually tell the truth? I've noticed that very few folks holding office, or running for it, on this side of the big puddle tell us what they are actually planning on doing. For instance, LBJ was elected as the peace candidate, Nixon was the arch conservative totally opposed to dealing with China, etc. Usually, it appears to me, folks in Washington tell us that they are opposed to doing something that no-one thought they were going to do, as a trial balloon before initiating a plan to do exactly that. Now I recognize that according to the Harris Poll, Obama is more popular than Jesus and I suspect that means there are likely some folks who think he can walk on water, feed the multitudes with 5 loves and 3 fishes, and would never lie, but I didn't think you were the sort went to that church - are you?
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Algoraphobia: An exaggerated fear of the outside world rooted in the belief that one might spontaneously combust due to global warming.
Oakman wrote:
Not being the expert on Australia you offer yourself up to be on the US, I must ask: over there, do you find that politicians usually tell the truth? I've noticed that very few folks holding office, or running for it, on this side of the big puddle tell us what they are actually planning on doing. For instance, LBJ was elected as the peace candidate, Nixon was the arch conservative totally opposed to dealing with China, etc. Usually, it appears to me, folks in Washington tell us that they are opposed to doing something that no-one thought they were going to do, as a trial balloon before initiating a plan to do exactly that.
Politicians often mislead, but it is rarely gratuitous. It is a way of handling difficult political pressures and/or coping with unforeseen events. The political logic behind this particular proposal is so dubious that the proposal certainly isn't worth the political cost of being seen to have been dishonest. A mileage tax would be technically difficult to implement and the obvious solutions raise politically problematic privacy concerns. While there is some economic logic to a mileage tax (as a reflection of road usage costs), it is politically a much tougher sell than fuel economy initiatives and somewhat confuses the political message with regard to the latter. All this and the White House denial are enough to tell me that the proposal isn't going to happen. The "trial balloon" on this occasion was floated by Ray LaHood, one of the two Republican Secretaries in the Adminstration. I think it is far more likely that he is out of the loop in terms of White House thinking than that he is acting as a scout for a secret White House plan. <edit> It seems to me that we are getting an endless succession of scare mongering stories regarding the Obama administration, few of which, if any, are ever going to amount to anything. </edit>
John Carson
modified on Friday, February 20, 2009 8:10 PM
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John Carson wrote:
You post a link to an article saying the Obama Administration will not be imposing a mileage tax!!! You really are desperate to complain about something aren't you.
John, do you not understand the concept of a trial balloon?
Mike - typical white guy. The USA does have universal healthcare, but you have to pay for it. D'oh. Thomas Mann - "Tolerance becomes a crime when applied to evil." The NYT - my leftist brochure. Calling an illegal alien an “undocumented immigrant” is like calling a drug dealer an “unlicensed pharmacist”. God doesn't believe in atheists, therefore they don't exist.
Mike Gaskey wrote:
John, do you not understand the concept of a trial balloon?
If that is what this was, then it has been shot down. As I remark elsewhere, LaHood is one of only two Republican Secretaries in the Administration and I think it more likely that he was out of touch with White House thinking than that he is acting as a scout for a secret White House plan.
John Carson
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Oakman wrote:
Not being the expert on Australia you offer yourself up to be on the US, I must ask: over there, do you find that politicians usually tell the truth? I've noticed that very few folks holding office, or running for it, on this side of the big puddle tell us what they are actually planning on doing. For instance, LBJ was elected as the peace candidate, Nixon was the arch conservative totally opposed to dealing with China, etc. Usually, it appears to me, folks in Washington tell us that they are opposed to doing something that no-one thought they were going to do, as a trial balloon before initiating a plan to do exactly that.
Politicians often mislead, but it is rarely gratuitous. It is a way of handling difficult political pressures and/or coping with unforeseen events. The political logic behind this particular proposal is so dubious that the proposal certainly isn't worth the political cost of being seen to have been dishonest. A mileage tax would be technically difficult to implement and the obvious solutions raise politically problematic privacy concerns. While there is some economic logic to a mileage tax (as a reflection of road usage costs), it is politically a much tougher sell than fuel economy initiatives and somewhat confuses the political message with regard to the latter. All this and the White House denial are enough to tell me that the proposal isn't going to happen. The "trial balloon" on this occasion was floated by Ray LaHood, one of the two Republican Secretaries in the Adminstration. I think it is far more likely that he is out of the loop in terms of White House thinking than that he is acting as a scout for a secret White House plan. <edit> It seems to me that we are getting an endless succession of scare mongering stories regarding the Obama administration, few of which, if any, are ever going to amount to anything. </edit>
John Carson
modified on Friday, February 20, 2009 8:10 PM
John Carson wrote:
Politicians often mislead, but it is rarely gratuitous. It is a way of handling difficult political pressures and/or coping with unforeseen events. The political logic behind this particular proposal is so dubious that the proposal certainly isn't worth the political cost of being seen to have been dishonest.
You may be right - since such a change would take ten years, even you might have trouble suggesting that we spend the money needed to make it happen as part of our next stimulus package. And getting everyone steamed up over the idea would allow Congress to impose a 50% increase in the gas tax as a way of avoiding the mileage tax. They could sell themselves as heroes.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Algoraphobia: An exaggerated fear of the outside world rooted in the belief that one might spontaneously combust due to global warming.
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Mike Gaskey wrote:
John, do you not understand the concept of a trial balloon?
If that is what this was, then it has been shot down. As I remark elsewhere, LaHood is one of only two Republican Secretaries in the Administration and I think it more likely that he was out of touch with White House thinking than that he is acting as a scout for a secret White House plan.
John Carson
John Carson wrote:
As I remark elsewhere, LaHood is one of only two Republican Secretaries in the Administration and I think it more likely that he was out of touch with White House thinking
So Obama just put him in there as a placeholder? No real power, responsibility, or input?
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Algoraphobia: An exaggerated fear of the outside world rooted in the belief that one might spontaneously combust due to global warming.
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John Carson wrote:
As I remark elsewhere, LaHood is one of only two Republican Secretaries in the Administration and I think it more likely that he was out of touch with White House thinking
So Obama just put him in there as a placeholder? No real power, responsibility, or input?
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Algoraphobia: An exaggerated fear of the outside world rooted in the belief that one might spontaneously combust due to global warming.
Oakman wrote:
So Obama just put him in there as a placeholder? No real power, responsibility, or input?
I think he is new in the job. I seem to recall that Obama himself said that he would be setting the agenda. "The change comes from me", not from his cabinet secretaries. Of course LaHood will have power, responsibility and input, but 1. It is not reasonable at this early stage to assume that he speaks for the White House, 2. On any big policy questions, it will ultimately be Obama's call.
John Carson
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Chris Austin wrote:
I'd prefer usage tax versus income tax to fund road and highways.
Any reason to assume that we won't end up with both?
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Algoraphobia: An exaggerated fear of the outside world rooted in the belief that one might spontaneously combust due to global warming.
Not really. I wouldn't expect any state or the federal government to repeal cash-cows like that.
Sovereign ingredient for a happy marriage: Pay cash or do without. Interest charges not only eat up a household budget; awareness of debt eats up domestic felicity. --Lazarus Long Avoid the crowd. Do your own thinking independently. Be the chess player, not the chess piece. --?