Mr. President! Governator! Here's the answer
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73Zeppelin wrote:
Yeah, because just what the world needs are more people on opiates and dope.
It's doubtful that the result would be more people, although those people would be less likely to die, and less likely to commit crime. In my mind, it's not about accepting something, it's about better controlling it, and limiting the cost to society.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista.
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on one hand you say "if you don't work you starve" and then you don't want people saying "this isn't good for you, but we are legalising it, if you take it that's your problem, plus you pay taxes on it". isn't personal responsibility one of the fundamental tenets of the conservative creed ? aren't you contradicting yourself here?
Otto von Drunkencoder wrote:
on one hand you say "if you don't work you starve" and then you don't want people saying "this isn't good for you, but we are legalising it, if you take it that's your problem, plus you pay taxes on it". isn't personal responsibility one of the fundamental tenets of the conservative creed ? aren't you contradicting yourself here?
Personal responsibility includes being socially responsible - that means, supporting those rules and standards legally established by your fellow citizens for the purpose of defining what makes civilization 'civil', even when you disagree with them. It is entirely meaningless to claim to be personally responsible, but give license to every form of irresponsible behavior, taxed or not. But, that really has nothing to do with the point I am making. The point is that liberal economics is failing, so we are going to try to fix it by taxing irresponsible behavior. The notion that the government is therefore going to have enough money is preposterous. It will still need more money and will have to find even more irresponsible behavior to tax. That is, as responsible citizens, we will have to tolerate ever more irresponsible conduct merely to continue to fund a failing system. What do we do after people simply refuse to become any more depraved? What do we tax than? What this really proves is that liberalims has simply failed. If we want to legalized drugs, fine, but don't do it in order to fund a failed system. Do it because you just like living in a society full of drug addicts.
Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.
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Stan Shannon wrote:
It ain't gonna work.
As opposed to how well prohibition was working and the war on Drugs still is? And that was the exact point Jefferson was making. You know, the real life Jefferson, not the fictional Shannonantisyland one that you like to imagine existed.
led mike wrote:
As opposed to how well prohibition was working and the war on Drugs still is? And that was the exact point Jefferson was making. You know, the real life Jefferson, not the fictional Shannonantisyland one that you like to imagine existed.
That isn't the point at all. The point is the system is broke. The reason you even need to tax dope is becuase the system is broke. You aren't going to fix it by taxing irresponsible behavior. You're simply going to have a failed system with even more irresponsible behavior. It has nothing to do with Jefferson, or hemp or prohibition or anything else. The system is completely and utterly broken, taxing dope is not going to make any fucking difference.
Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.
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Stan Shannon wrote:
I'm pretty sure that the Shannons have a much longer history of successfully doing so than do the Gadziemskis
Ah, but me dear mother came from the Moores who have a long history of owning Shannon villeins.
Ed Gadziemski wrote:
Ah, but me dear mother came from the Moores who have a long history of owning Shannon villeins.
No, I'm actually pretty damn sure we were top of the food chain.
Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.
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Because the good ol' Christian Right is always blameless, huh.
Ravel H. Joyce wrote:
Because the good ol' Christian Right is always blameless, huh.
No, just more rational.
Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.
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Otto von Drunkencoder wrote:
on one hand you say "if you don't work you starve" and then you don't want people saying "this isn't good for you, but we are legalising it, if you take it that's your problem, plus you pay taxes on it". isn't personal responsibility one of the fundamental tenets of the conservative creed ? aren't you contradicting yourself here?
Personal responsibility includes being socially responsible - that means, supporting those rules and standards legally established by your fellow citizens for the purpose of defining what makes civilization 'civil', even when you disagree with them. It is entirely meaningless to claim to be personally responsible, but give license to every form of irresponsible behavior, taxed or not. But, that really has nothing to do with the point I am making. The point is that liberal economics is failing, so we are going to try to fix it by taxing irresponsible behavior. The notion that the government is therefore going to have enough money is preposterous. It will still need more money and will have to find even more irresponsible behavior to tax. That is, as responsible citizens, we will have to tolerate ever more irresponsible conduct merely to continue to fund a failing system. What do we do after people simply refuse to become any more depraved? What do we tax than? What this really proves is that liberalims has simply failed. If we want to legalized drugs, fine, but don't do it in order to fund a failed system. Do it because you just like living in a society full of drug addicts.
Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.
You know nothing about the marijuana culture. Absolutely nothing, so shut up.
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Christian Graus wrote:
So wait a second ? You agree with SOME levels of government control of people's lives then ? The 'war on drugs' costs your society far more than a policy of allowing some drugs ever could. I personally do not even smoke/drink, but I'd rather not see my tax dollars wasted, people turned into criminals for victimless actions, and people who are addicts, marginalized so they are unable to seek support.
The point is that collectivism leads to exploding budget deficits which leads to rationalizing the legalization of some sort of vice so that we can make a little money off of it so that we can afford more collectivism. Anyone who cannot see whats wrong with that plan is seriously stupid. It ain't gonna work. And you have to be insanely idiotic to believe that it will. The only real question is how long will people continue to entertain this kind of utterly unworkable lunacy? It is berift of even the slightest shred of intelligent insight. When will the simple instinct for self preservation begin to kick in? All I can do is stand with slack jawed bewilderment at the bizarre intellectual rot that pervades my civilization.
Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.
modified on Wednesday, February 25, 2009 10:32 PM
Marijana needs to be legal in the first place, and there should be no taxes except sales tax.
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Christian Graus wrote:
It's doubtful that the result would be more people
Wait, you think you can use logic and reality to argue with social conservatives? You have a lot to learn. ;)
led mike wrote:
social conservatives?
Zepplin is a flaming liberal.
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You know nothing about the marijuana culture. Absolutely nothing, so shut up.
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CSS_Shadow(); wrote:
You know nothing about the marijuana culture. Absolutely nothing, so shut up.
Marijuana culture destroyed my family and many other families in the area I grew up in. So you shut up.
Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.
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CSS_Shadow(); wrote:
You know nothing about the marijuana culture. Absolutely nothing, so shut up.
Marijuana culture destroyed my family and many other families in the area I grew up in. So you shut up.
Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.
Stan Shannon wrote:
Marijuana culture destroyed my family and many other families in the area I grew up in.
It wasn't the marijuana, it simply does not work like that. Maybe your family just couldn't handle life.
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Stan Shannon wrote:
Marijuana culture destroyed my family and many other families in the area I grew up in.
It wasn't the marijuana, it simply does not work like that. Maybe your family just couldn't handle life.
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CSS_Shadow(); wrote:
It wasn't the marijuana, it simply does not work like that. Maybe your family just couldn't handle life.
They had thrived on the worst that life could throw at them for generations. One generation after being introduced to marijuana, they were all suddenly as dysfunctional as you are.
Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.
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Marijana needs to be legal in the first place, and there should be no taxes except sales tax.
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CSS_Shadow(); wrote:
Marijana needs to be legal in the first place, and there should be no taxes except sales tax
You still couldn't afford it. You can't even spell it.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Algoraphobia: An exaggerated fear of the outside world rooted in the belief that one might spontaneously combust due to global warming.
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Ravel H. Joyce wrote:
Because the good ol' Christian Right is always blameless, huh.
No, just more rational.
Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.
Stan Shannon wrote:
No, just more rational.
:laugh: You're joking, right? The Christian Right...more rational? :laugh:
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CSS_Shadow(); wrote:
It wasn't the marijuana, it simply does not work like that. Maybe your family just couldn't handle life.
They had thrived on the worst that life could throw at them for generations. One generation after being introduced to marijuana, they were all suddenly as dysfunctional as you are.
Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.
So your families weak souls were devoured.
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led mike wrote:
social conservatives?
Zepplin is a flaming liberal.
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Hardly.
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73Zeppelin wrote:
Yeah, because just what the world needs are more people on opiates and dope.
It's doubtful that the result would be more people, although those people would be less likely to die, and less likely to commit crime. In my mind, it's not about accepting something, it's about better controlling it, and limiting the cost to society.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista.
Yeah, meanwhile, who's going to pay for the New Addicts' health care? Do you know how much tobacco smokers tax the health system? Marijuana smoking is worse - if someone's dumb enough to smoke it, I sure don't want to pay for their care. Socialized medicine should be a priveledge, not a right. I don't mind paying taxes for health care because I think people should have access to it. However, if you engage in activities that are well known to have significant health effects, then I think people like that should be forced to pay a higher premium, or a higher tax on their income.
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Christian Graus wrote:
It's doubtful that the result would be more people
Wait, you think you can use logic and reality to argue with social conservatives? You have a lot to learn. ;)
I'm not a conservative. You missed my point. Canada's health care system, for example, is being overrun. Legalizing drungs that are similar (arguably worse) than tobacco will tax the system even more. Canada has tried to decriminalize marijuana, and the results are not as hoped. Usage has increased and all that will result is increased burden on the health care system. I am in favour of socialized medicine - I am not in favour of socialized medicine that is freely available to people who engage in activities that put one's health at risk. That's not why socialized medicine is available.
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Stan Shannon wrote:
No, just more rational.
:laugh: You're joking, right? The Christian Right...more rational? :laugh:
Ravel H. Joyce wrote:
You're joking, right? The Christian Right...more rational?
Yes. The obvious association between religion and civilization is inherently more rational than is the notion that civilization can exist without it.
Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.
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I'm not a conservative. You missed my point. Canada's health care system, for example, is being overrun. Legalizing drungs that are similar (arguably worse) than tobacco will tax the system even more. Canada has tried to decriminalize marijuana, and the results are not as hoped. Usage has increased and all that will result is increased burden on the health care system. I am in favour of socialized medicine - I am not in favour of socialized medicine that is freely available to people who engage in activities that put one's health at risk. That's not why socialized medicine is available.
73Zeppelin wrote:
That's not why socialized medicine is available.
Once you have socialized one thing, you have socialized everything.
Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.
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Ravel H. Joyce wrote:
You're joking, right? The Christian Right...more rational?
Yes. The obvious association between religion and civilization is inherently more rational than is the notion that civilization can exist without it.
Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.
Stan Shannon wrote:
Yes. The obvious association between religion and civilization is inherently more rational than is the notion that civilization can exist without it.
No. The Bible says that the Earth has four corners [Isaiah 11:12, Revelation 7:1 ], rests on pillars [ Job 9:6 ], has edges [ Job 38:12-13 ] and is flat [ Isaiah 40:18-23, Job 38:14, Matthew 4:1-12 ]. It's obviously completely ridiculous and civilisations have only progressed as much as they have on the back of scientific progress. There is no evidence of a quarter of the Egyptian population just up and leaving one day, no evidence of a great flood, no ark, no canopies of water. Society doesn't need it, and you've failed so far to prove that it does.