Does anyone else think Elijah Wood...
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Anna :) wrote: Most guys don't get this, but admitting you think a member of the same sex is attractive does not make you gay - that implies a sexual preference, which is a different thing. Even though I am one of those romantic, new age, get in touch with your feelings type of guys I think there is a difference between thinking someone is attractive and being attracted to them. I am fully capable of pointing out attractive men, but that is to me the same as pointing out an attractive wedding cake or a nice looking chocolate frog. David definitley crossed the line, he even wanted to ride the same bus. Saying that though there is nothing wrong with it, David can like whoever he wants to like, just as you can. Also you must not be part of the problem by pointing out things like that, you are almost defending him which is not needed because we are all mature, intelligent people. If you announced you were gay then we would not have a problem with it, or shy away.
Paul Watson
Bluegrass
Cape Town, South AfricaMmmm.... chocolate frogs.... ;P Paul Watson wrote: Even though I am one of those romantic, new age, get in touch with your feelings type of guys ...aka "normal". Some people are just more capable of expressing what many people choose to bottle up; or so it seems to me. Paul Watson wrote: David definitley crossed the line, he even wanted to ride the same bus. Saying that though there is nothing wrong with it, David can like whoever he wants to like, just as you can. Also you must not be part of the problem by pointing out things like that, you are almost defending him which is not needed because we are all mature, intelligent people I am firmly of the conviction that I am far too young to understand my real sexuality yet (or I should say sexualities as their is evidence that we go through many prolonged phases), so I just enjoy making with what I've got. I can go out clubbing of a morning and not have to deal with social stereotypes, just people I like and whom hopefully like me back. I don't see anything wrong with that - as you said, we are all mature intelligent people - even the local interbreeds know what they want (if not much else). I think people of both sexes should go out at least one night a week and just interact with a bunch of people with everyone wearing balaclavas, bodysuits and voice neutralisers, maybe then other people will understand this point of view. It may surprise some people to find I do actually find some females attractive to the extent of being attracted to them, I've even shared what could loosely be called a legit relationship with two of them during my impresionable school years, and likewise 50% of the time I could say the same about the other sex. I am not gay, I am not straight, I am not even bi-sexual - I am me. Life's about having fun with each other not forcing yourself into categories. However I don't see how it is possible to be attracted to an actor or other person that you have never met as there is no personality behind a picture - nothing to be attracted to. Sure I may find Mr Wood attractive (again a wonderful choice of words), but I am in no way attracted to him. My comment about holding the bus was a joke. People get crushes on such people which is nothing really more than self-pitying admiration. Sheesh, all this and I only wanted people to comment on this guy's eyes! :eek:
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Paul Watson wrote: Even though I am one of those romantic, new age, get in touch with your feelings type of guys I think there is a difference between thinking someone is attractive and being attracted to them. I am fully capable of pointing out attractive men, but that is to me the same as pointing out an attractive wedding cake or a nice looking chocolate frog. Of course there is. What I was trying to say was that I suspect that many heterosexual guys - if they felt such an attraction even once, wouldn't admit it, even to themself. To do otherwise seems to label you as "gay" in male society, even if they didn't (or couldn't bring themselves to) "act" on it. Having said al that, what's in a label? All that should matter is whether you love the person - regardless of sex, creed or colour. As long as you're comfortable with who you are, why worry? Paul Watson wrote: David definitley crossed the line, he even wanted to ride the same bus. Saying that though there is nothing wrong with it, David can like whoever he wants to like, just as you can. Also you must not be part of the problem by pointing out things like that, you are almost defending him which is not needed because we are all mature, intelligent people. If you announced you were gay then we would not have a problem with it, or shy away. I think Dave is perfectly capable of defending himself without my help! That's certainly not my intention - I just find it refreshing to see someone who can openly admit to feelings which are "taboo". I'm actually surprised (and heartened) he hasn't taken any real flak for his admission. Remember the reaction I received in one case when I started talking last year? No matter how mature, we all have our hang-ups in one way or another - and I'm certainly don't claim to be an exception. God Bless, Anna :rose: "Be yourself - not what others think you should be"
- Marcia GraeschAnna :) wrote: What I was trying to say was that I suspect that many heterosexual guys - if they felt such an attraction even once, wouldn't admit it, even to themself. To do otherwise seems to label you as "gay" in male society, even if they didn't (or couldn't bring themselves to) "act" on it. Hear hear. That is the next hurdle society must conquer before we can advance to better things - and with it will go a lot of deep-rooted problems with current societies too. Conformity is the biggest demon out there. Anna :) wrote: As long as you're comfortable with who you are, why worry? How many people are truely and deeply comfortable with who they are? I am a very strongly introverted person, so while I know full well there is no substance to it I often find myself getting into situations that truely make me feel awkward and uncomfortable about myself. It's a real bitch sometimes, but coversely small victories go a long way. For example (and I know this will strike home to many of you of a similar personality type) I used to hate taking and making telephone calls as a teenager, and still do albeit to a lesser extent, and used to go to great lengths to avoid making them. Nowadays I make phone calls left right and center as part of my daily life, and have no real quarms about doing so, but that period when the phone is ringing and when you havr just hung up pumps more adrenaline through my veins than facing a loaded gun barrel. What was the topic again? Oh yeah, feeling comfortable about who you are... Well I do and I don't, usually at my own hand. Anna :) wrote: I think Dave is perfectly capable of defending himself without my help! Firstly thanks, secondly I am starting to narrow my list of guesses on your other (birth) identity. You are a British man who works in or around London and is one of the few here that call me Dave... All this suspecnse is killing me! Anna :) wrote: I'm actually surprised (and heartened) he hasn't taken any real flak for his admission I don't recall the negative reactions to your revelation, but I have found my take on this topic rarely generates negative feelings, and if so a quick one-to-one discussion has always put them to rest before. The people who typically have a problem with anything of this sort are those that don't understand -- and the unknown scares them into irrationality. After chatting with them and showing them you are act
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David Wulff wrote: Have you considered going to the opticians and having your eyes tested? I think you must be short sighted... as someone who suffers from that same eternal youthful face thing, i have a hard time feeling anything but pity for others who share the condition. :( -c
"Kate said / The flowers of intolerance and hatred / Are blooimg kind of early this year / Someone's been watering them. -- Robyn Hitchcock, Devil's Radio
Chris Losinger wrote: as someone who suffers from that same eternal youthful face thing Suffer? I've recently stopped getting ID'd when I buy liqour and I'm a little upset about it. I actually like the surprised look on people's faces when I tell them how old I am. _____________________ "So in the interests of survival, they trained themselves to be agreeing machines instead of thinking machines. All their minds had to do was to discover what other people were thinking, and then they thought that, too." Breakfast of Champions, Kurt Vonnegut
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Chris Losinger wrote: as someone who suffers from that same eternal youthful face thing Suffer? I've recently stopped getting ID'd when I buy liqour and I'm a little upset about it. I actually like the surprised look on people's faces when I tell them how old I am. _____________________ "So in the interests of survival, they trained themselves to be agreeing machines instead of thinking machines. All their minds had to do was to discover what other people were thinking, and then they thought that, too." Breakfast of Champions, Kurt Vonnegut
Daniel Ferguson wrote: Suffer? yeah. i'm two weeks shy of 32 but still get carded every single time. even worse, when my wife and i go out she'll get carded too because she's with me, and she often doesn't bring her ID (she never gets carded if she's out with the girls). so, we have to run home, or leave, or worse - drink water :wtf: so, i'm just looking forward to the day that people think i'm out of high school :) -c
Greenspun's Tenth Rule of Programming: "Any sufficiently complicated C or Fortran program contains an ad-hoc, informally-specified bug-ridden slow implementation of half of Common Lisp."
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Anna - next month the local goth night starts again here and there is NO way I'm missing that :cool: :cool: :rose: Elaine (black fluffy tigress with black stripes :cool: ) Would you like to meet my teddy bear ?
Some goth acquaintances were at a coffee shop one day and when the girl behind the counter asked why they were all dressed in black, one of them replied, "We're protesting pink." I wish I had been there. :-D I'm not really a fan of goths, as I've met a few I liked and lots that I didn't, but I really like the music. _____________________ "So in the interests of survival, they trained themselves to be agreeing machines instead of thinking machines. All their minds had to do was to discover what other people were thinking, and then they thought that, too." Breakfast of Champions, Kurt Vonnegut
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I don't know what you are talking about... *cough* :rolleyes: Bah, you know you're just jealous! :-D Paul Watson wrote: I find him a bit too efeminite in his looks to be attractive Each unto his own I suppose, though I do prefer my men (oh god, wrong choice of words too) to be a little effeminate as they tend to be more interested in interesting things and capable of holding a decent conversation that doesn't revolve around fantasy-based sexual conquest. Paul Watson wrote: If I had to point out attractive males then Pierce Brosnan, Mel Gibson and that guy from the West Wing I don't know of the latter, but you are certainly right about Mel Gibson - he is a classic good looker (which is odd for me 'cause I tend to only find younger people attractive). - and Pierce Brosnan, well, he does make for a good James Bond...
David Wulff http://www.davidwulff.co.uk
I'm not schizophrenic, are we.
David Wulff wrote: Bah, you know you're just jealous! Hah! You are but a fledgeling new age man, bow to my mastery of this powerful art. :rolleyes:
Paul Watson
Bluegrass
Cape Town, South Africa -
Mmmm.... chocolate frogs.... ;P Paul Watson wrote: Even though I am one of those romantic, new age, get in touch with your feelings type of guys ...aka "normal". Some people are just more capable of expressing what many people choose to bottle up; or so it seems to me. Paul Watson wrote: David definitley crossed the line, he even wanted to ride the same bus. Saying that though there is nothing wrong with it, David can like whoever he wants to like, just as you can. Also you must not be part of the problem by pointing out things like that, you are almost defending him which is not needed because we are all mature, intelligent people I am firmly of the conviction that I am far too young to understand my real sexuality yet (or I should say sexualities as their is evidence that we go through many prolonged phases), so I just enjoy making with what I've got. I can go out clubbing of a morning and not have to deal with social stereotypes, just people I like and whom hopefully like me back. I don't see anything wrong with that - as you said, we are all mature intelligent people - even the local interbreeds know what they want (if not much else). I think people of both sexes should go out at least one night a week and just interact with a bunch of people with everyone wearing balaclavas, bodysuits and voice neutralisers, maybe then other people will understand this point of view. It may surprise some people to find I do actually find some females attractive to the extent of being attracted to them, I've even shared what could loosely be called a legit relationship with two of them during my impresionable school years, and likewise 50% of the time I could say the same about the other sex. I am not gay, I am not straight, I am not even bi-sexual - I am me. Life's about having fun with each other not forcing yourself into categories. However I don't see how it is possible to be attracted to an actor or other person that you have never met as there is no personality behind a picture - nothing to be attracted to. Sure I may find Mr Wood attractive (again a wonderful choice of words), but I am in no way attracted to him. My comment about holding the bus was a joke. People get crushes on such people which is nothing really more than self-pitying admiration. Sheesh, all this and I only wanted people to comment on this guy's eyes! :eek:
David Wulff wrote: Mmmm.... chocolate frogs.... Yeah I love chocolate frogs. There is a great make from Zimbabwe called Freddy The Frog. Very tasty. David Wulff wrote: I am firmly of the conviction that I am far too young to understand my real sexuality yet (or I should say sexualities as their is evidence that we go through many prolonged phases), so I just enjoy making with what I've got. I spent one very drunk night affirming my belief that I don't find men attractive in a sexual way. Suffice to say my friend never spoke to me again, latent homosexual for sure but he just could not deal with it (big rugby playing guy, all the girls liked him, very smart, well dressed, went overboard in perving over women (a feint) but oddly never actually had a proper man-woman relationship. I hope he has got to grips with who he is by know.) I think you are right, and bloody brave, to admit all of this. Most of us go through it but while we all want to share what we feel, we are too scared to stick our necks out and be made a fool of. David Wulff wrote: I think people of both sexes should go out at least one night a week and just interact with a bunch of people with everyone wearing balaclavas, bodysuits and voice neutralisers, maybe then other people will understand this point of view. One more reason why I like the internet. If you so choose you can go completely anonymous both in name and sex and talk with like minded people. David Wulff wrote: Sheesh, all this and I only wanted people to comment on this guy's eyes! LOL, more proof we all have the same thoughts inside us but are holding back. You just chipped a hole in the dam :)
Paul Watson
Bluegrass
Cape Town, South Africa -
Some goth acquaintances were at a coffee shop one day and when the girl behind the counter asked why they were all dressed in black, one of them replied, "We're protesting pink." I wish I had been there. :-D I'm not really a fan of goths, as I've met a few I liked and lots that I didn't, but I really like the music. _____________________ "So in the interests of survival, they trained themselves to be agreeing machines instead of thinking machines. All their minds had to do was to discover what other people were thinking, and then they thought that, too." Breakfast of Champions, Kurt Vonnegut
ROTFL :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: Thanks Daniel, I've forwarded it to a friend who wears lots of pink :cool: Elaine (fluffy tigress emoticon) Would you like to meet my teddy bear ?
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David Wulff wrote: Mmmm.... chocolate frogs.... Yeah I love chocolate frogs. There is a great make from Zimbabwe called Freddy The Frog. Very tasty. David Wulff wrote: I am firmly of the conviction that I am far too young to understand my real sexuality yet (or I should say sexualities as their is evidence that we go through many prolonged phases), so I just enjoy making with what I've got. I spent one very drunk night affirming my belief that I don't find men attractive in a sexual way. Suffice to say my friend never spoke to me again, latent homosexual for sure but he just could not deal with it (big rugby playing guy, all the girls liked him, very smart, well dressed, went overboard in perving over women (a feint) but oddly never actually had a proper man-woman relationship. I hope he has got to grips with who he is by know.) I think you are right, and bloody brave, to admit all of this. Most of us go through it but while we all want to share what we feel, we are too scared to stick our necks out and be made a fool of. David Wulff wrote: I think people of both sexes should go out at least one night a week and just interact with a bunch of people with everyone wearing balaclavas, bodysuits and voice neutralisers, maybe then other people will understand this point of view. One more reason why I like the internet. If you so choose you can go completely anonymous both in name and sex and talk with like minded people. David Wulff wrote: Sheesh, all this and I only wanted people to comment on this guy's eyes! LOL, more proof we all have the same thoughts inside us but are holding back. You just chipped a hole in the dam :)
Paul Watson
Bluegrass
Cape Town, South AfricaPaul Watson wrote: Yeah I love chocolate frogs. There is a great make from Zimbabwe called Freddy The Frog. Very tasty. I don't know if I could eat something with a name! That is like putting a roast suckling pig in front of me and saying "David, this is George, eat up". When something has a name - whether a pig or a lump of chocolate* - it becomes an almost living creature, and I have enough difficulty standing on ants. * I am assuming chocolate frogs are made entire out of chocolate and not frog. Paul Watson wrote: I spent one very drunk night affirming my belief that I don't find men attractive in a sexual way. Suffice to say my friend never spoke to me again. Been there done that and I'm still friends with the guy after apologising profusely for putting him in an awkward situation. It didn't help me affirm anything though, but it was bloody good fun all the same. Strip "Rock Paper Siccors" in a house full of eighteen year old boys can get pretty graphic... :eek: Of course, muggins here lost the game first and had to sit there in the cold for at least twenty minutes or so as the butt of everyone elses jokes. Still, if you can't take it you shouldn't dish it out. Paul Watson wrote: I think you are right, and bloody brave, to admit all of this. Most of us go through it but while we all want to share what we feel, we are too scared to stick our necks out and be made a fool of. My R.E. teacher told us this... The whole same sex issue is something everyone of either sex goes through during their late teenage years as part of the whole "getting ready for life and finding role models" phase adolescence is all about. It's a hormonal thing. This is where the different personalities kick in and affect how the person will emerge once an adult. Firstly everybody will think they are the only one and so it instantly becomes a taboo subject for them ("must be normal, must be normal, ...") which is the biggest problem they will ever face: to talk or not to talk. As well as that they will typically sway one of two ways: (a) they will turn into homosexual individuals, or (b) they will hear their thoughts and think they are gay (and this is where the negative images start floosing them). The first produces the typical openly homosexual stereotype and the second produces either closet homosexuals or in the vast majority of cases people who play their fear cards and grow up to harbour an outw
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David Wulff wrote: Bah, you know you're just jealous! Hah! You are but a fledgeling new age man, bow to my mastery of this powerful art. :rolleyes:
Paul Watson
Bluegrass
Cape Town, South AfricaI bow down to you, Guru Watson, please forgive my actions. :rose:
David Wulff http://www.davidwulff.co.uk
I'm not schizophrenic, are we.
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Paul Watson wrote: Yeah I love chocolate frogs. There is a great make from Zimbabwe called Freddy The Frog. Very tasty. I don't know if I could eat something with a name! That is like putting a roast suckling pig in front of me and saying "David, this is George, eat up". When something has a name - whether a pig or a lump of chocolate* - it becomes an almost living creature, and I have enough difficulty standing on ants. * I am assuming chocolate frogs are made entire out of chocolate and not frog. Paul Watson wrote: I spent one very drunk night affirming my belief that I don't find men attractive in a sexual way. Suffice to say my friend never spoke to me again. Been there done that and I'm still friends with the guy after apologising profusely for putting him in an awkward situation. It didn't help me affirm anything though, but it was bloody good fun all the same. Strip "Rock Paper Siccors" in a house full of eighteen year old boys can get pretty graphic... :eek: Of course, muggins here lost the game first and had to sit there in the cold for at least twenty minutes or so as the butt of everyone elses jokes. Still, if you can't take it you shouldn't dish it out. Paul Watson wrote: I think you are right, and bloody brave, to admit all of this. Most of us go through it but while we all want to share what we feel, we are too scared to stick our necks out and be made a fool of. My R.E. teacher told us this... The whole same sex issue is something everyone of either sex goes through during their late teenage years as part of the whole "getting ready for life and finding role models" phase adolescence is all about. It's a hormonal thing. This is where the different personalities kick in and affect how the person will emerge once an adult. Firstly everybody will think they are the only one and so it instantly becomes a taboo subject for them ("must be normal, must be normal, ...") which is the biggest problem they will ever face: to talk or not to talk. As well as that they will typically sway one of two ways: (a) they will turn into homosexual individuals, or (b) they will hear their thoughts and think they are gay (and this is where the negative images start floosing them). The first produces the typical openly homosexual stereotype and the second produces either closet homosexuals or in the vast majority of cases people who play their fear cards and grow up to harbour an outw
David Wulff wrote: * I am assuming chocolate frogs are made entire out of chocolate and not frog. Me too... :rolleyes: David Wulff wrote: It didn't help me affirm anything though, but it was bloody good fun all the same Well I would say having found it bloody good fun affirms something :) My experience I was too drunk to care at the time whether it was fun or not. Afterwards it was distinctly not fun and knowing that was what affirmed it for me. If I had enjoyed it (even after sobering up), I would know I swung both ways. David Wulff wrote: I am still am obscenely introverted person with no self-confidence and far too much self-consciousnous, but at least I know who I am and what I want, and I'm not afraid of saying so. Sounds very contradictory to me. What are you not confident about? Yet you are confident enough to know who you are and say so.
Paul Watson
Bluegrass
Cape Town, South Africa -
David Wulff wrote: * I am assuming chocolate frogs are made entire out of chocolate and not frog. Me too... :rolleyes: David Wulff wrote: It didn't help me affirm anything though, but it was bloody good fun all the same Well I would say having found it bloody good fun affirms something :) My experience I was too drunk to care at the time whether it was fun or not. Afterwards it was distinctly not fun and knowing that was what affirmed it for me. If I had enjoyed it (even after sobering up), I would know I swung both ways. David Wulff wrote: I am still am obscenely introverted person with no self-confidence and far too much self-consciousnous, but at least I know who I am and what I want, and I'm not afraid of saying so. Sounds very contradictory to me. What are you not confident about? Yet you are confident enough to know who you are and say so.
Paul Watson
Bluegrass
Cape Town, South AfricaPaul Watson wrote: Me too... :rolleyes: ROFL! Paul Watson wrote: Well I would say having found it bloody good fun affirms something It affirmed I don't have a problem with it, but not necessarily that that is how I want to live my life. Fun is fun, nothing more, but on the serious side I would love to settle down around 30 and build a family of my own. Paul Watson wrote: I would know I swung both ways. Think back to you local supermarket - how many times have you pulled a push door or vice versa? Wouldn't it be so much better if they swung both ways? :laugh: Paul Watson wrote: Sounds very contradictory to me. What are you not confident about? Yet you are confident enough to know who you are and say so. I am confident in my abilities but not in social circumstances. It is usually the way with INT's, rather annoyingly, but that's just the way life works. To some people life is a bitch, to others it is a masochist brothel.
David Wulff http://www.davidwulff.co.uk
I'm not schizophrenic, are we.