Skip to content
  • Categories
  • Recent
  • Tags
  • Popular
  • World
  • Users
  • Groups
Skins
  • Light
  • Cerulean
  • Cosmo
  • Flatly
  • Journal
  • Litera
  • Lumen
  • Lux
  • Materia
  • Minty
  • Morph
  • Pulse
  • Sandstone
  • Simplex
  • Sketchy
  • Spacelab
  • United
  • Yeti
  • Zephyr
  • Dark
  • Cyborg
  • Darkly
  • Quartz
  • Slate
  • Solar
  • Superhero
  • Vapor

  • Default (No Skin)
  • No Skin
Collapse
Code Project
  1. Home
  2. The Lounge
  3. Making money as a web developer (or, how the web killed the software entrepreneur)

Making money as a web developer (or, how the web killed the software entrepreneur)

Scheduled Pinned Locked Moved The Lounge
questioncombusinesssaleshelp
58 Posts 35 Posters 21 Views 1 Watching
  • Oldest to Newest
  • Newest to Oldest
  • Most Votes
Reply
  • Reply as topic
Log in to reply
This topic has been deleted. Only users with topic management privileges can see it.
  • C Christopher Duncan

    The question below about Craigslist got me thinking about the problem of making money with service oriented web sites in general, and wondering if others see a solution that escapes me. There seems to be only a few successful models for making money on the web. One is to sell a physical product, ala Amazon. A benefit to this model is that it raises the bar to entry so that only those who can financially and physically manage such an endeavor are able to compete with you, effectively ruling out the 13 year old kid in the back bedroom. Most non product oriented endeavors end up relying in one way or another on advertising for revenue, with a model of building the numbers to the point where ad revenue is meaningful. This is no small feat on either side of the equation in and of itself, and it's not helped by the fact that you're now competing with the entire planet, including the kid in the back bedroom. The market gets flooded, thus making it hard to generate revenue. The third approach is to find some service oriented model (i.e. something that doesn't require the capital of a physical product model) that you can monetize without depending on advertising. That would seem like a viable concept, but once again the barrier to entry is non existent. No matter what you develop for a fee, some Penguin who believes that people shouldn't have to pay for anything will come right up beside you and offer everything you're doing for free. To me, this appears to kill the web for any serious business venture if you're not an Amazon type operation. And in fact, part of the Great Dot Com Crash was that everyone was focusing on getting venture capital but no one had a viable, profitible business model. Deride Microsoft and Windows based client apps all you like, but before the web it was possible to write an app in your spare time, sell it and build a business. Shareware / freeware did exist, but not in the overwhelming numbers now represented by free apps on the web. So, to elaborate on the Craigslist question below, how does an honest, hard working software developer strike out on his own and launch an application he can live on when he's competing on a web flooded with sites who give away everything for free?

    Christopher Duncan Author of The Career Programmer and Unite the Tribes

    N Offline
    N Offline
    Nemanja Trifunovic
    wrote on last edited by
    #4

    Christopher Duncan wrote:

    The third approach is to find some service oriented model (i.e. something that doesn't require the capital of a physical product model) that you can monetize without depending on advertising. That would seem like a viable concept, but once again the barrier to entry is non existent. No matter what you develop for a fee, some Penguin who believes that people shouldn't have to pay for anything will come right up beside you and offer everything you're doing for free.

    I am not sure I agree here. Are you aware of a free alternative to, say, SalesForce.com? IMHO, penguins are a threat to desktop application development more than to web services - even if you get development for free there are still costs of hosting, support, administration, etc...

    Programming Blog utf8-cpp

    R 1 Reply Last reply
    0
    • C Christopher Duncan

      The question below about Craigslist got me thinking about the problem of making money with service oriented web sites in general, and wondering if others see a solution that escapes me. There seems to be only a few successful models for making money on the web. One is to sell a physical product, ala Amazon. A benefit to this model is that it raises the bar to entry so that only those who can financially and physically manage such an endeavor are able to compete with you, effectively ruling out the 13 year old kid in the back bedroom. Most non product oriented endeavors end up relying in one way or another on advertising for revenue, with a model of building the numbers to the point where ad revenue is meaningful. This is no small feat on either side of the equation in and of itself, and it's not helped by the fact that you're now competing with the entire planet, including the kid in the back bedroom. The market gets flooded, thus making it hard to generate revenue. The third approach is to find some service oriented model (i.e. something that doesn't require the capital of a physical product model) that you can monetize without depending on advertising. That would seem like a viable concept, but once again the barrier to entry is non existent. No matter what you develop for a fee, some Penguin who believes that people shouldn't have to pay for anything will come right up beside you and offer everything you're doing for free. To me, this appears to kill the web for any serious business venture if you're not an Amazon type operation. And in fact, part of the Great Dot Com Crash was that everyone was focusing on getting venture capital but no one had a viable, profitible business model. Deride Microsoft and Windows based client apps all you like, but before the web it was possible to write an app in your spare time, sell it and build a business. Shareware / freeware did exist, but not in the overwhelming numbers now represented by free apps on the web. So, to elaborate on the Craigslist question below, how does an honest, hard working software developer strike out on his own and launch an application he can live on when he's competing on a web flooded with sites who give away everything for free?

      Christopher Duncan Author of The Career Programmer and Unite the Tribes

      R Offline
      R Offline
      Rage
      wrote on last edited by
      #5

      Christopher Duncan wrote:

      So, to elaborate on the Craigslist question below, how does an honest, hard working software developer strike out on his own and launch an application he can live on when he's competing on a web flooded with sites who give away everything for free?

      I think you missed a fourth possibility : come up with something that enters category 3 and sell it quickly to a blockbuster like Google, MS, ... before it gets free clones. You then sell concepts, and not the product of the concept.

      B 1 Reply Last reply
      0
      • C Christopher Duncan

        The question below about Craigslist got me thinking about the problem of making money with service oriented web sites in general, and wondering if others see a solution that escapes me. There seems to be only a few successful models for making money on the web. One is to sell a physical product, ala Amazon. A benefit to this model is that it raises the bar to entry so that only those who can financially and physically manage such an endeavor are able to compete with you, effectively ruling out the 13 year old kid in the back bedroom. Most non product oriented endeavors end up relying in one way or another on advertising for revenue, with a model of building the numbers to the point where ad revenue is meaningful. This is no small feat on either side of the equation in and of itself, and it's not helped by the fact that you're now competing with the entire planet, including the kid in the back bedroom. The market gets flooded, thus making it hard to generate revenue. The third approach is to find some service oriented model (i.e. something that doesn't require the capital of a physical product model) that you can monetize without depending on advertising. That would seem like a viable concept, but once again the barrier to entry is non existent. No matter what you develop for a fee, some Penguin who believes that people shouldn't have to pay for anything will come right up beside you and offer everything you're doing for free. To me, this appears to kill the web for any serious business venture if you're not an Amazon type operation. And in fact, part of the Great Dot Com Crash was that everyone was focusing on getting venture capital but no one had a viable, profitible business model. Deride Microsoft and Windows based client apps all you like, but before the web it was possible to write an app in your spare time, sell it and build a business. Shareware / freeware did exist, but not in the overwhelming numbers now represented by free apps on the web. So, to elaborate on the Craigslist question below, how does an honest, hard working software developer strike out on his own and launch an application he can live on when he's competing on a web flooded with sites who give away everything for free?

        Christopher Duncan Author of The Career Programmer and Unite the Tribes

        T Offline
        T Offline
        Todd Smith
        wrote on last edited by
        #6

        We pay $$$ for multiple copies of ReSharper. We pay $$$$ for TestTrack (the free stuff doesn't do everything we need. FogBugz is another good example.) We pay $$$$ for Red Gate Tools We pay $$$$ for Install Shield Most of the free stuff we use we could actually do without if we had to such as CruiseControl.NET, Nant, etc. If the free tools break for whatever reason an IT guy can't make an easy call or email and get a quick answer. WinZip still sells lots and lots of copies yet there's free alternatives out there. Granted, you can't make money off dead simple applications like you used to but I don't see that as a big loss.

        Todd Smith

        C M 2 Replies Last reply
        0
        • C Christopher Duncan

          The question below about Craigslist got me thinking about the problem of making money with service oriented web sites in general, and wondering if others see a solution that escapes me. There seems to be only a few successful models for making money on the web. One is to sell a physical product, ala Amazon. A benefit to this model is that it raises the bar to entry so that only those who can financially and physically manage such an endeavor are able to compete with you, effectively ruling out the 13 year old kid in the back bedroom. Most non product oriented endeavors end up relying in one way or another on advertising for revenue, with a model of building the numbers to the point where ad revenue is meaningful. This is no small feat on either side of the equation in and of itself, and it's not helped by the fact that you're now competing with the entire planet, including the kid in the back bedroom. The market gets flooded, thus making it hard to generate revenue. The third approach is to find some service oriented model (i.e. something that doesn't require the capital of a physical product model) that you can monetize without depending on advertising. That would seem like a viable concept, but once again the barrier to entry is non existent. No matter what you develop for a fee, some Penguin who believes that people shouldn't have to pay for anything will come right up beside you and offer everything you're doing for free. To me, this appears to kill the web for any serious business venture if you're not an Amazon type operation. And in fact, part of the Great Dot Com Crash was that everyone was focusing on getting venture capital but no one had a viable, profitible business model. Deride Microsoft and Windows based client apps all you like, but before the web it was possible to write an app in your spare time, sell it and build a business. Shareware / freeware did exist, but not in the overwhelming numbers now represented by free apps on the web. So, to elaborate on the Craigslist question below, how does an honest, hard working software developer strike out on his own and launch an application he can live on when he's competing on a web flooded with sites who give away everything for free?

          Christopher Duncan Author of The Career Programmer and Unite the Tribes

          L Offline
          L Offline
          Lost User
          wrote on last edited by
          #7

          Christopher Duncan wrote:

          A benefit to this model is that it raises the bar to entry so that only those who can financially and physically manage such an endeavor are able to compete with you,

          That doesn't mean that Amazon doesn't have competition, nor does it mean that you can only sell "real" products if you got the financial backing of an Amazon. If that were the case, then all real-life grocers would have been replaced by supermarkets. They haven't.

          I are troll :)

          C 1 Reply Last reply
          0
          • T Todd Smith

            We pay $$$ for multiple copies of ReSharper. We pay $$$$ for TestTrack (the free stuff doesn't do everything we need. FogBugz is another good example.) We pay $$$$ for Red Gate Tools We pay $$$$ for Install Shield Most of the free stuff we use we could actually do without if we had to such as CruiseControl.NET, Nant, etc. If the free tools break for whatever reason an IT guy can't make an easy call or email and get a quick answer. WinZip still sells lots and lots of copies yet there's free alternatives out there. Granted, you can't make money off dead simple applications like you used to but I don't see that as a big loss.

            Todd Smith

            C Offline
            C Offline
            Christopher Duncan
            wrote on last edited by
            #8

            It sounds like what you've listed are developer tools, not web sites. Perhaps that's where the money is, not in web site development of any kind. After all, the best way to make money in the music biz is not by playing music, but rather by selling instruments to those who do.

            Christopher Duncan Author of The Career Programmer and Unite the Tribes www.PracticalUSA.com

            S 1 Reply Last reply
            0
            • L Lost User

              Christopher Duncan wrote:

              A benefit to this model is that it raises the bar to entry so that only those who can financially and physically manage such an endeavor are able to compete with you,

              That doesn't mean that Amazon doesn't have competition, nor does it mean that you can only sell "real" products if you got the financial backing of an Amazon. If that were the case, then all real-life grocers would have been replaced by supermarkets. They haven't.

              I are troll :)

              C Offline
              C Offline
              Christopher Duncan
              wrote on last edited by
              #9

              Raising the bar to entry is not the same as no competition. It simply means that you've significantly reduced the amount of competition in your arena. When you're talking about the huge number of free competitors in a non product scenario, this is a meaningful distinction.

              Christopher Duncan Author of The Career Programmer and Unite the Tribes www.PracticalUSA.com

              1 Reply Last reply
              0
              • C Christopher Duncan

                The question below about Craigslist got me thinking about the problem of making money with service oriented web sites in general, and wondering if others see a solution that escapes me. There seems to be only a few successful models for making money on the web. One is to sell a physical product, ala Amazon. A benefit to this model is that it raises the bar to entry so that only those who can financially and physically manage such an endeavor are able to compete with you, effectively ruling out the 13 year old kid in the back bedroom. Most non product oriented endeavors end up relying in one way or another on advertising for revenue, with a model of building the numbers to the point where ad revenue is meaningful. This is no small feat on either side of the equation in and of itself, and it's not helped by the fact that you're now competing with the entire planet, including the kid in the back bedroom. The market gets flooded, thus making it hard to generate revenue. The third approach is to find some service oriented model (i.e. something that doesn't require the capital of a physical product model) that you can monetize without depending on advertising. That would seem like a viable concept, but once again the barrier to entry is non existent. No matter what you develop for a fee, some Penguin who believes that people shouldn't have to pay for anything will come right up beside you and offer everything you're doing for free. To me, this appears to kill the web for any serious business venture if you're not an Amazon type operation. And in fact, part of the Great Dot Com Crash was that everyone was focusing on getting venture capital but no one had a viable, profitible business model. Deride Microsoft and Windows based client apps all you like, but before the web it was possible to write an app in your spare time, sell it and build a business. Shareware / freeware did exist, but not in the overwhelming numbers now represented by free apps on the web. So, to elaborate on the Craigslist question below, how does an honest, hard working software developer strike out on his own and launch an application he can live on when he's competing on a web flooded with sites who give away everything for free?

                Christopher Duncan Author of The Career Programmer and Unite the Tribes

                M Offline
                M Offline
                Mustafa Ismail Mustafa
                wrote on last edited by
                #10

                In essence, this is primarily the issue I'm facing. I've been on my own now for over a year and I can't see myself going back to a 9-5 job, I would if I have to but I'd rather not. I've got the skills and the market is out there, but in addition to the reasons that you mentioned, we have to also look at the sheer size of the web. I discover a new tool/idea/site everyday, something that will help me in some way. Its the same way, how could I promote my discovery (and thus my skills) to others. I'm sure I'm not the only one suffering from this. There is a fourth option I believe. That's by introducing a totally new paradigm, something that beats the system, and then eventually becomes the system, Yahoo with the concept of web portal and then google with the search engine, the web has dozens of such stories.

                C T 2 Replies Last reply
                0
                • C Christopher Duncan

                  The question below about Craigslist got me thinking about the problem of making money with service oriented web sites in general, and wondering if others see a solution that escapes me. There seems to be only a few successful models for making money on the web. One is to sell a physical product, ala Amazon. A benefit to this model is that it raises the bar to entry so that only those who can financially and physically manage such an endeavor are able to compete with you, effectively ruling out the 13 year old kid in the back bedroom. Most non product oriented endeavors end up relying in one way or another on advertising for revenue, with a model of building the numbers to the point where ad revenue is meaningful. This is no small feat on either side of the equation in and of itself, and it's not helped by the fact that you're now competing with the entire planet, including the kid in the back bedroom. The market gets flooded, thus making it hard to generate revenue. The third approach is to find some service oriented model (i.e. something that doesn't require the capital of a physical product model) that you can monetize without depending on advertising. That would seem like a viable concept, but once again the barrier to entry is non existent. No matter what you develop for a fee, some Penguin who believes that people shouldn't have to pay for anything will come right up beside you and offer everything you're doing for free. To me, this appears to kill the web for any serious business venture if you're not an Amazon type operation. And in fact, part of the Great Dot Com Crash was that everyone was focusing on getting venture capital but no one had a viable, profitible business model. Deride Microsoft and Windows based client apps all you like, but before the web it was possible to write an app in your spare time, sell it and build a business. Shareware / freeware did exist, but not in the overwhelming numbers now represented by free apps on the web. So, to elaborate on the Craigslist question below, how does an honest, hard working software developer strike out on his own and launch an application he can live on when he's competing on a web flooded with sites who give away everything for free?

                  Christopher Duncan Author of The Career Programmer and Unite the Tribes

                  R Offline
                  R Offline
                  Rama Krishna Vavilala
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #11

                  You need to put your application on the cloud. :)

                  Christopher Duncan wrote:

                  Penguin who believes that people shouldn't have to pay for anything will come right up beside you and offer everything you're doing for free.

                  Who pays for the penguin's hosting charges, hardware costs etc? It is easier to give out a desktop application for free than a Web application.

                  1 Reply Last reply
                  0
                  • M Mustafa Ismail Mustafa

                    In essence, this is primarily the issue I'm facing. I've been on my own now for over a year and I can't see myself going back to a 9-5 job, I would if I have to but I'd rather not. I've got the skills and the market is out there, but in addition to the reasons that you mentioned, we have to also look at the sheer size of the web. I discover a new tool/idea/site everyday, something that will help me in some way. Its the same way, how could I promote my discovery (and thus my skills) to others. I'm sure I'm not the only one suffering from this. There is a fourth option I believe. That's by introducing a totally new paradigm, something that beats the system, and then eventually becomes the system, Yahoo with the concept of web portal and then google with the search engine, the web has dozens of such stories.

                    C Offline
                    C Offline
                    Christopher Duncan
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #12

                    Well said. However, regarding your fourth option, it means that instead of the previous paradigm where thousands upon thousands of developers could carve out a good and independant living writing Windows apps, now it's either be a Google or be broke, nothing in between. Not my favorite kind of odds. By the way, what do you do on your own - freelance web dev?

                    Christopher Duncan Author of The Career Programmer and Unite the Tribes www.PracticalUSA.com

                    M 1 Reply Last reply
                    0
                    • C Christopher Duncan

                      The question below about Craigslist got me thinking about the problem of making money with service oriented web sites in general, and wondering if others see a solution that escapes me. There seems to be only a few successful models for making money on the web. One is to sell a physical product, ala Amazon. A benefit to this model is that it raises the bar to entry so that only those who can financially and physically manage such an endeavor are able to compete with you, effectively ruling out the 13 year old kid in the back bedroom. Most non product oriented endeavors end up relying in one way or another on advertising for revenue, with a model of building the numbers to the point where ad revenue is meaningful. This is no small feat on either side of the equation in and of itself, and it's not helped by the fact that you're now competing with the entire planet, including the kid in the back bedroom. The market gets flooded, thus making it hard to generate revenue. The third approach is to find some service oriented model (i.e. something that doesn't require the capital of a physical product model) that you can monetize without depending on advertising. That would seem like a viable concept, but once again the barrier to entry is non existent. No matter what you develop for a fee, some Penguin who believes that people shouldn't have to pay for anything will come right up beside you and offer everything you're doing for free. To me, this appears to kill the web for any serious business venture if you're not an Amazon type operation. And in fact, part of the Great Dot Com Crash was that everyone was focusing on getting venture capital but no one had a viable, profitible business model. Deride Microsoft and Windows based client apps all you like, but before the web it was possible to write an app in your spare time, sell it and build a business. Shareware / freeware did exist, but not in the overwhelming numbers now represented by free apps on the web. So, to elaborate on the Craigslist question below, how does an honest, hard working software developer strike out on his own and launch an application he can live on when he's competing on a web flooded with sites who give away everything for free?

                      Christopher Duncan Author of The Career Programmer and Unite the Tribes

                      C Offline
                      C Offline
                      Chris Maunder
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #13

                      Same way they always did. 1. Build a great product that fills a need. (or just 'a product that fills a need). 2. Market it effectively 3. Make it easy to buy Yes, you're competing with the 13 yr olds. But you're touching hundreds of millions of people in a cost effective manner that you would have had no chance in touching before.

                      cheers, Chris Maunder CodeProject.com : C++ MVP

                      C J 2 Replies Last reply
                      0
                      • N Nemanja Trifunovic

                        Christopher Duncan wrote:

                        The third approach is to find some service oriented model (i.e. something that doesn't require the capital of a physical product model) that you can monetize without depending on advertising. That would seem like a viable concept, but once again the barrier to entry is non existent. No matter what you develop for a fee, some Penguin who believes that people shouldn't have to pay for anything will come right up beside you and offer everything you're doing for free.

                        I am not sure I agree here. Are you aware of a free alternative to, say, SalesForce.com? IMHO, penguins are a threat to desktop application development more than to web services - even if you get development for free there are still costs of hosting, support, administration, etc...

                        Programming Blog utf8-cpp

                        R Offline
                        R Offline
                        Rama Krishna Vavilala
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #14

                        Nemanja Trifunovic wrote:

                        Are you aware of a free alternative to, say, SalesForce.com?

                        Kinda but not exactly. http://www.sugarcrm.com/crm/community/sugarcrm-community.html[^]

                        1 Reply Last reply
                        0
                        • C Christopher Duncan

                          Well said. However, regarding your fourth option, it means that instead of the previous paradigm where thousands upon thousands of developers could carve out a good and independant living writing Windows apps, now it's either be a Google or be broke, nothing in between. Not my favorite kind of odds. By the way, what do you do on your own - freelance web dev?

                          Christopher Duncan Author of The Career Programmer and Unite the Tribes www.PracticalUSA.com

                          M Offline
                          M Offline
                          Mustafa Ismail Mustafa
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #15

                          Christopher Duncan wrote:

                          However, regarding your fourth option, it means that instead of the previous paradigm where thousands upon thousands of developers could carve out a good and independant living writing Windows apps, now it's either be a Google or be broke, nothing in between.

                          I don't like those either; I don't support the whole smoke stack concept, but they have to exist to a certain degree (if only because they can raise the capital to do the major systems that have become necessary tools of the trade) But, bear in mind, Google, Yahoo, Microsoft and all of them, you just tell me how many people they employ? I worked for MS and with the exception of CG, I probably rant to myself the most about their shoddy work, but they are an essential cornerstone of the industry. I might not like working for a corporation anymore, but they are serious employer and not just for devs.

                          Christopher Duncan wrote:

                          By the way, what do you do on your own - freelance web dev?

                          A bit of everything really. Mostly win apps that are .Net based, Health Informatics. I've done some websites, some web apps, and now that I bought a bleeding edge, powerful computer, as soon as I'm done with my Master's thesis and current job (hopefully, I'll be done by June) then I'm going to North America / Australia to try my luck there and see if I can get back into telecom and possibly break into mobile apps. I'll most likely go back home to Edmonton. Recently, an alternative has been suggested to me and that is to seek work from abroad and I could do it from here (the internet is a boon in this case), but we'll see. I'm not leaving Jordan purely for work.

                          1 Reply Last reply
                          0
                          • T Todd Smith

                            We pay $$$ for multiple copies of ReSharper. We pay $$$$ for TestTrack (the free stuff doesn't do everything we need. FogBugz is another good example.) We pay $$$$ for Red Gate Tools We pay $$$$ for Install Shield Most of the free stuff we use we could actually do without if we had to such as CruiseControl.NET, Nant, etc. If the free tools break for whatever reason an IT guy can't make an easy call or email and get a quick answer. WinZip still sells lots and lots of copies yet there's free alternatives out there. Granted, you can't make money off dead simple applications like you used to but I don't see that as a big loss.

                            Todd Smith

                            M Offline
                            M Offline
                            Mustafa Ismail Mustafa
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #16

                            Now why were you down voted? This makes no sense to me.

                            1 Reply Last reply
                            0
                            • C Chris Maunder

                              Same way they always did. 1. Build a great product that fills a need. (or just 'a product that fills a need). 2. Market it effectively 3. Make it easy to buy Yes, you're competing with the 13 yr olds. But you're touching hundreds of millions of people in a cost effective manner that you would have had no chance in touching before.

                              cheers, Chris Maunder CodeProject.com : C++ MVP

                              C Offline
                              C Offline
                              Christopher Duncan
                              wrote on last edited by
                              #17

                              Chris Maunder wrote:

                              Same way they always did.

                              I don't think it's the same world it used to be, so I'm not sure this holds true. The ease with which someone of few skills can copy and paste their way to a web site that does the same thing that you just launched is unprecedented, as is the number of people who do it. And the web is far different today than it was in 1996, when it was just gaining notice. CodeProject is a case in point. You were an early adopter back in the days when CodeGuru was about the only other serious player in town, and the entire planet hadn't yet jumped onto the web. You have a dominant position today through years of growth, but also significantly boosted by the fact that you were in the game early. Had you started CP today, with a mature and flooded market, do you truly believe that you would have achieved the same level of success?

                              Christopher Duncan Author of The Career Programmer and Unite the Tribes www.PracticalUSA.com

                              C T G M 4 Replies Last reply
                              0
                              • C Christopher Duncan

                                Chris Maunder wrote:

                                Same way they always did.

                                I don't think it's the same world it used to be, so I'm not sure this holds true. The ease with which someone of few skills can copy and paste their way to a web site that does the same thing that you just launched is unprecedented, as is the number of people who do it. And the web is far different today than it was in 1996, when it was just gaining notice. CodeProject is a case in point. You were an early adopter back in the days when CodeGuru was about the only other serious player in town, and the entire planet hadn't yet jumped onto the web. You have a dominant position today through years of growth, but also significantly boosted by the fact that you were in the game early. Had you started CP today, with a mature and flooded market, do you truly believe that you would have achieved the same level of success?

                                Christopher Duncan Author of The Career Programmer and Unite the Tribes www.PracticalUSA.com

                                C Offline
                                C Offline
                                Chris Maunder
                                wrote on last edited by
                                #18

                                Christopher Duncan wrote:

                                Had you started CP today, with a mature and flooded market, do you truly believe that you would have achieved the same level of success

                                Yes.

                                cheers, Chris Maunder CodeProject.com : C++ MVP

                                C 1 Reply Last reply
                                0
                                • C Chris Maunder

                                  Christopher Duncan wrote:

                                  Had you started CP today, with a mature and flooded market, do you truly believe that you would have achieved the same level of success

                                  Yes.

                                  cheers, Chris Maunder CodeProject.com : C++ MVP

                                  C Offline
                                  C Offline
                                  Christopher Duncan
                                  wrote on last edited by
                                  #19

                                  Cheeky. But then, I admire that kind of thing. :-D

                                  Christopher Duncan Author of The Career Programmer and Unite the Tribes www.PracticalUSA.com

                                  C 1 Reply Last reply
                                  0
                                  • C Christopher Duncan

                                    Cheeky. But then, I admire that kind of thing. :-D

                                    Christopher Duncan Author of The Career Programmer and Unite the Tribes www.PracticalUSA.com

                                    C Offline
                                    C Offline
                                    Chris Maunder
                                    wrote on last edited by
                                    #20

                                    You know me. What possible other answer were you expecting? :-D

                                    cheers, Chris Maunder CodeProject.com : C++ MVP

                                    C 1 Reply Last reply
                                    0
                                    • C Chris Maunder

                                      You know me. What possible other answer were you expecting? :-D

                                      cheers, Chris Maunder CodeProject.com : C++ MVP

                                      C Offline
                                      C Offline
                                      Christopher Duncan
                                      wrote on last edited by
                                      #21

                                      :laugh:

                                      Christopher Duncan Author of The Career Programmer and Unite the Tribes www.PracticalUSA.com

                                      1 Reply Last reply
                                      0
                                      • C Christopher Duncan

                                        The question below about Craigslist got me thinking about the problem of making money with service oriented web sites in general, and wondering if others see a solution that escapes me. There seems to be only a few successful models for making money on the web. One is to sell a physical product, ala Amazon. A benefit to this model is that it raises the bar to entry so that only those who can financially and physically manage such an endeavor are able to compete with you, effectively ruling out the 13 year old kid in the back bedroom. Most non product oriented endeavors end up relying in one way or another on advertising for revenue, with a model of building the numbers to the point where ad revenue is meaningful. This is no small feat on either side of the equation in and of itself, and it's not helped by the fact that you're now competing with the entire planet, including the kid in the back bedroom. The market gets flooded, thus making it hard to generate revenue. The third approach is to find some service oriented model (i.e. something that doesn't require the capital of a physical product model) that you can monetize without depending on advertising. That would seem like a viable concept, but once again the barrier to entry is non existent. No matter what you develop for a fee, some Penguin who believes that people shouldn't have to pay for anything will come right up beside you and offer everything you're doing for free. To me, this appears to kill the web for any serious business venture if you're not an Amazon type operation. And in fact, part of the Great Dot Com Crash was that everyone was focusing on getting venture capital but no one had a viable, profitible business model. Deride Microsoft and Windows based client apps all you like, but before the web it was possible to write an app in your spare time, sell it and build a business. Shareware / freeware did exist, but not in the overwhelming numbers now represented by free apps on the web. So, to elaborate on the Craigslist question below, how does an honest, hard working software developer strike out on his own and launch an application he can live on when he's competing on a web flooded with sites who give away everything for free?

                                        Christopher Duncan Author of The Career Programmer and Unite the Tribes

                                        E Offline
                                        E Offline
                                        Ennis Ray Lynch Jr
                                        wrote on last edited by
                                        #22

                                        Simple, name recognition. Those people that give it away for free usually f* it up. There are countless companies on Craig's List that have done the low-cost developer game thinking they are getting a deal only to wind up tied up in an investment in an open source product that no one wants to modify, the original developers quit. If you want to make it, be professional and offer a great product. It won't come quick but your excellent product raises the bar for entry with every bug fix and improvement you make. I hate to reference Joel Splosky but his company sells Bug Tracking software! Talk about the impossible. The other solution is to write application software and sell it traditionally. A computer application is brick and mortar and it get be sold as such. Imagine if your product was boxed and in Staples, Office Depot, Amazon, Etc. with them doing the sales and your sales staff focusing on bigger fish. It can an does happen. Again look at Austin Meyer, a single engineer who has the number two flight sim on the market, and thanks to Microsoft's recent layoff this guy might actually become the king, by himself. It can happen but I have run out of public optimism I have to save some for my self :p

                                        Need custom software developed? I do C# development and consulting all over the United States. A man said to the universe: "Sir I exist!" "However," replied the universe, "The fact has not created in me A sense of obligation." --Stephen Crane

                                        1 Reply Last reply
                                        0
                                        • C Christopher Duncan

                                          The question below about Craigslist got me thinking about the problem of making money with service oriented web sites in general, and wondering if others see a solution that escapes me. There seems to be only a few successful models for making money on the web. One is to sell a physical product, ala Amazon. A benefit to this model is that it raises the bar to entry so that only those who can financially and physically manage such an endeavor are able to compete with you, effectively ruling out the 13 year old kid in the back bedroom. Most non product oriented endeavors end up relying in one way or another on advertising for revenue, with a model of building the numbers to the point where ad revenue is meaningful. This is no small feat on either side of the equation in and of itself, and it's not helped by the fact that you're now competing with the entire planet, including the kid in the back bedroom. The market gets flooded, thus making it hard to generate revenue. The third approach is to find some service oriented model (i.e. something that doesn't require the capital of a physical product model) that you can monetize without depending on advertising. That would seem like a viable concept, but once again the barrier to entry is non existent. No matter what you develop for a fee, some Penguin who believes that people shouldn't have to pay for anything will come right up beside you and offer everything you're doing for free. To me, this appears to kill the web for any serious business venture if you're not an Amazon type operation. And in fact, part of the Great Dot Com Crash was that everyone was focusing on getting venture capital but no one had a viable, profitible business model. Deride Microsoft and Windows based client apps all you like, but before the web it was possible to write an app in your spare time, sell it and build a business. Shareware / freeware did exist, but not in the overwhelming numbers now represented by free apps on the web. So, to elaborate on the Craigslist question below, how does an honest, hard working software developer strike out on his own and launch an application he can live on when he's competing on a web flooded with sites who give away everything for free?

                                          Christopher Duncan Author of The Career Programmer and Unite the Tribes

                                          S Offline
                                          S Offline
                                          Shog9 0
                                          wrote on last edited by
                                          #23

                                          Christopher Duncan wrote:

                                          Deride Microsoft and Windows based client apps all you like, but before the web it was possible to write an app in your spare time, sell it and build a business.

                                          Surely it was also possible to write an app in your spare time, try to sell it, fail to find enough paying customers, and end up selling vacuum cleaners to pay rent? Wasn't the whole point of shareware getting other people to distribute your software for you in the hope that a few of them would like it enough to pay for it? When was having a product people wanted not a requirement of success...?

                                          C 1 Reply Last reply
                                          0
                                          Reply
                                          • Reply as topic
                                          Log in to reply
                                          • Oldest to Newest
                                          • Newest to Oldest
                                          • Most Votes


                                          • Login

                                          • Don't have an account? Register

                                          • Login or register to search.
                                          • First post
                                            Last post
                                          0
                                          • Categories
                                          • Recent
                                          • Tags
                                          • Popular
                                          • World
                                          • Users
                                          • Groups