The Oregonian: Boy banned from wearing Obama mask in skit
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Bob Emmett wrote:
Well, no, one cannot; one either believes or does not believe a thing.
Personally, I try to accept as little as possible on belief. If I can't personally verify the truth of something, it's nice, at least, to understand exactly what arguments there might be in favor of accepting something as true, and those that would lead one to reject it as false. A lot of time doing that will lead one to saying, "I don't know and there doesn't seem to be good evidence for it or against it." Not confusing knowing with believing, of course, interferes with hating everyone who disagrees with you, but I find that less of a problem than some folks might think it would be.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface
Belief is moral. Knowledge is filthy humanism. ;)
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Christian Graus wrote:
The core issue is that it's not long enough ago since your forefathers dragged his forefathers into boats and enslaved them.
That actually would not include Obama.
Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.
Oh no, here comes Stan the supreme expert on the founders, particularly Thomas Jefferson. Stan who constantly extols Jefferson and Jeffersonian ideology as well as the "fact" that the United States of America was founded with Christianity. I quivering in my boots at Stan's supreme knowledge of the Jefferson. whatever Stan. Jefferson was one smart SOB. You on the other hand, don't no shit.
Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity. -Thomas Jefferson, Notes on Virginia, 1782 But it does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods or no God. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg. -Thomas Jefferson, Notes on Virginia, 1782 Where the preamble declares, that coercion is a departure from the plan of the holy author of our religion, an amendment was proposed by inserting "Jesus Christ," so that it would read "A departure from the plan of Jesus Christ, the holy author of our religion;" the insertion was rejected by the great majority, in proof that they meant to comprehend, within the mantle of its protection, the Jew and the Gentile, the Christian and Mohammedan, the Hindoo and Infidel of every denomination. -Thomas Jefferson, Autobiography, in reference to the Virginia Act for Religious Freedom I never submitted the whole system of my opinions to the creed of any party of men whatever in religion, in philosophy, in politics, or in anything else where I was capable of thinking for myself. Such an addiction is the last degradation of a free and moral agent. -Thomas Jefferson, letter to Francis Hopkinson, March 13, 1789 My opinion is that there would never have been an infidel, if there had never been a priest. The artificial structures they have built on the purest of all moral systems, for the purpose of deriving from it pence and power, revolts those who think for themselves, and who read in that system only what is really there. -Thomas Jefferson, letter to Mrs. Samuel H. Smith, August, 6, 1816 Priests...dread the advance of science as witches do the approach of daylight and scowl on the fatal harbinger announcing the subversions of the duperies on which they live. -Thomas Jefferson, Letter to Correa de Serra, April 11, 1820 Man once surrendering his reason, has no remaining guard against absurdities the most monstrous, and like a ship without rudder, is the sport of every wind. -Thom
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Oh no, here comes Stan the supreme expert on the founders, particularly Thomas Jefferson. Stan who constantly extols Jefferson and Jeffersonian ideology as well as the "fact" that the United States of America was founded with Christianity. I quivering in my boots at Stan's supreme knowledge of the Jefferson. whatever Stan. Jefferson was one smart SOB. You on the other hand, don't no shit.
Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity. -Thomas Jefferson, Notes on Virginia, 1782 But it does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods or no God. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg. -Thomas Jefferson, Notes on Virginia, 1782 Where the preamble declares, that coercion is a departure from the plan of the holy author of our religion, an amendment was proposed by inserting "Jesus Christ," so that it would read "A departure from the plan of Jesus Christ, the holy author of our religion;" the insertion was rejected by the great majority, in proof that they meant to comprehend, within the mantle of its protection, the Jew and the Gentile, the Christian and Mohammedan, the Hindoo and Infidel of every denomination. -Thomas Jefferson, Autobiography, in reference to the Virginia Act for Religious Freedom I never submitted the whole system of my opinions to the creed of any party of men whatever in religion, in philosophy, in politics, or in anything else where I was capable of thinking for myself. Such an addiction is the last degradation of a free and moral agent. -Thomas Jefferson, letter to Francis Hopkinson, March 13, 1789 My opinion is that there would never have been an infidel, if there had never been a priest. The artificial structures they have built on the purest of all moral systems, for the purpose of deriving from it pence and power, revolts those who think for themselves, and who read in that system only what is really there. -Thomas Jefferson, letter to Mrs. Samuel H. Smith, August, 6, 1816 Priests...dread the advance of science as witches do the approach of daylight and scowl on the fatal harbinger announcing the subversions of the duperies on which they live. -Thomas Jefferson, Letter to Correa de Serra, April 11, 1820 Man once surrendering his reason, has no remaining guard against absurdities the most monstrous, and like a ship without rudder, is the sport of every wind. -Thom
what the fuck does any of your comments have to do with anything Stan said about the Magic Negro?
Mike - typical white guy. The USA does have universal healthcare, but you have to pay for it. D'oh. Thomas Mann - "Tolerance becomes a crime when applied to evil." The NYT - my leftist brochure. Calling an illegal alien an “undocumented immigrant” is like calling a drug dealer an “unlicensed pharmacist”. God doesn't believe in atheists, therefore they don't exist.
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Oh no, here comes Stan the supreme expert on the founders, particularly Thomas Jefferson. Stan who constantly extols Jefferson and Jeffersonian ideology as well as the "fact" that the United States of America was founded with Christianity. I quivering in my boots at Stan's supreme knowledge of the Jefferson. whatever Stan. Jefferson was one smart SOB. You on the other hand, don't no shit.
Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity. -Thomas Jefferson, Notes on Virginia, 1782 But it does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods or no God. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg. -Thomas Jefferson, Notes on Virginia, 1782 Where the preamble declares, that coercion is a departure from the plan of the holy author of our religion, an amendment was proposed by inserting "Jesus Christ," so that it would read "A departure from the plan of Jesus Christ, the holy author of our religion;" the insertion was rejected by the great majority, in proof that they meant to comprehend, within the mantle of its protection, the Jew and the Gentile, the Christian and Mohammedan, the Hindoo and Infidel of every denomination. -Thomas Jefferson, Autobiography, in reference to the Virginia Act for Religious Freedom I never submitted the whole system of my opinions to the creed of any party of men whatever in religion, in philosophy, in politics, or in anything else where I was capable of thinking for myself. Such an addiction is the last degradation of a free and moral agent. -Thomas Jefferson, letter to Francis Hopkinson, March 13, 1789 My opinion is that there would never have been an infidel, if there had never been a priest. The artificial structures they have built on the purest of all moral systems, for the purpose of deriving from it pence and power, revolts those who think for themselves, and who read in that system only what is really there. -Thomas Jefferson, letter to Mrs. Samuel H. Smith, August, 6, 1816 Priests...dread the advance of science as witches do the approach of daylight and scowl on the fatal harbinger announcing the subversions of the duperies on which they live. -Thomas Jefferson, Letter to Correa de Serra, April 11, 1820 Man once surrendering his reason, has no remaining guard against absurdities the most monstrous, and like a ship without rudder, is the sport of every wind. -Thom
If he really believed all of that, why didn't he try to create a government which actually incorporated those concepts when he had the chance? Here's a news flash for ya - Jefferson's letters are not legally binding documents. However, not that it matters regarding the current conversation, but I do happen to agree with him on most of that. But, like Jefferson, I believe it has no more business being promoted by the state than does anyone else's religious opinions.
Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.
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Bob Emmett wrote:
one either believes or does not believe a thing.
Really? I frequently go with "I don't know". I mean, what's so frackin important about believing or not believing. For must things, they are what they are regardless of what anyone believes, so what's the point? I see these video interviews from so called journalists all the time asking people in the street things like, "do you believe aliens exist?" Who gives a frack what that person believes, aliens either exist or don't regardless of what people believe. end rant. Wasn't aimed at you, not personal, I just have a thing about this, um, thing. :laugh:
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If he really believed all of that, why didn't he try to create a government which actually incorporated those concepts when he had the chance? Here's a news flash for ya - Jefferson's letters are not legally binding documents. However, not that it matters regarding the current conversation, but I do happen to agree with him on most of that. But, like Jefferson, I believe it has no more business being promoted by the state than does anyone else's religious opinions.
Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.
Stan - just finished a book by Brad Thor that had background including Jefferson and the Barbary pirates (aka., the first Islamic terrorists). Premise was that Jefferson knew of a missing addition to the Koran that excised the concept of war / violence to spread / defend Islam. Pretty interesting read if you enjoy fiction.
Mike - typical white guy. The USA does have universal healthcare, but you have to pay for it. D'oh. Thomas Mann - "Tolerance becomes a crime when applied to evil." The NYT - my leftist brochure. Calling an illegal alien an “undocumented immigrant” is like calling a drug dealer an “unlicensed pharmacist”. God doesn't believe in atheists, therefore they don't exist.
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what the fuck does any of your comments have to do with anything Stan said about the Magic Negro?
Mike - typical white guy. The USA does have universal healthcare, but you have to pay for it. D'oh. Thomas Mann - "Tolerance becomes a crime when applied to evil." The NYT - my leftist brochure. Calling an illegal alien an “undocumented immigrant” is like calling a drug dealer an “unlicensed pharmacist”. God doesn't believe in atheists, therefore they don't exist.
Does Stan's reply answer your question? I am ignoring your racist troll accept for wondering if you are twittering with Red about this. Oh dude, I so missed this opportunity. I should have told you I was Stan Trolling so I would have to throw you back in. Why did you reply to me, you been missing me? I'm wearing a pretty pink skirt right now. ;)
modified on Monday, March 16, 2009 3:22 PM
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Stan - just finished a book by Brad Thor that had background including Jefferson and the Barbary pirates (aka., the first Islamic terrorists). Premise was that Jefferson knew of a missing addition to the Koran that excised the concept of war / violence to spread / defend Islam. Pretty interesting read if you enjoy fiction.
Mike - typical white guy. The USA does have universal healthcare, but you have to pay for it. D'oh. Thomas Mann - "Tolerance becomes a crime when applied to evil." The NYT - my leftist brochure. Calling an illegal alien an “undocumented immigrant” is like calling a drug dealer an “unlicensed pharmacist”. God doesn't believe in atheists, therefore they don't exist.
Thanks. That is actually on my reading list - if I ever get back to working on my reading list. I saw him on Glen Beck.
Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.
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Ravel H. Joyce wrote:
but I need to know that I can fix people
What the frack is that supposed to mean? Are you clinically insane? You might want to get a check up, don't forget to tell them about this desire to "fix people".
led mike wrote:
What the frack is that supposed to mean?
You've been watching way too much BSG!!!!
Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.
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If he really believed all of that, why didn't he try to create a government which actually incorporated those concepts when he had the chance? Here's a news flash for ya - Jefferson's letters are not legally binding documents. However, not that it matters regarding the current conversation, but I do happen to agree with him on most of that. But, like Jefferson, I believe it has no more business being promoted by the state than does anyone else's religious opinions.
Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.
Stan Shannon wrote:
If he really believed all of that
"If"? How do you come about questioning that? Please explain.
Stan Shannon wrote:
why didn't he
What? You, the Jeffersonian Soapbox expert are asking me why Jefferson did or said something? WTF dude? I never claimed to be a Jefferson expert. I only claimed to know that you don't know shit about him.
Stan Shannon wrote:
Here's a news flash for ya - Jefferson's letters are not legally binding documents.
Oh, really? All those past statements you made about what Jefferson stood for and how it proved that I and many others were wrong had only to do with legally binding documents? I see you are in full spin mode now trying to escape the facts again. Here's a news flash for ya - facts are facts regardless of being in legally binding documents or not. What these facts prove and I clearly stated in the first post, is that you don't know shit when it comes to what Jefferson believed and what he stood for in regards to the United States of America and, wait for it, FREEDOM.
Stan Shannon wrote:
not that it matters regarding the current conversation
No it doesn't that's why I posted to you and not someone else. It pertains to you being full of shit in general.
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Thanks. That is actually on my reading list - if I ever get back to working on my reading list. I saw him on Glen Beck.
Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.
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No problems. I was just picking up on Ilion's statement: "Does any rational person honestly believe that ..." "Does any rational person honestly claim to believe that ...". would have passed without comment. end pedantry. Sorry.
Bob Emmett
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led mike wrote:
What the frack is that supposed to mean?
You've been watching way too much BSG!!!!
Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.
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Bob Emmett wrote:
Well, no, one cannot; one either believes or does not believe a thing.
Personally, I try to accept as little as possible on belief. If I can't personally verify the truth of something, it's nice, at least, to understand exactly what arguments there might be in favor of accepting something as true, and those that would lead one to reject it as false. A lot of time doing that will lead one to saying, "I don't know and there doesn't seem to be good evidence for it or against it." Not confusing knowing with believing, of course, interferes with hating everyone who disagrees with you, but I find that less of a problem than some folks might think it would be.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface
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Belief is moral. Knowledge is filthy humanism. ;)
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Christian Graus wrote:
As I said, the key thing to remember is that the phrase 'the face of the ground' represents the same thing as the area Cain was banished from. The other key thing is that knowing if the waters covered all the earth or not, is not really the core thing the bible is about, it doesn't particularly matter.
There's only one way that the flood water can be fifteen cubits above the highest mountain, and that's if it covers the entire planet. There is no way of getting around gravity. And yeah, I think it DOES matter. I could easily write a book telling people that they have to be nice to each other, but nobody would listen because they wouldn't believe it to be the inspired word of God. People do believe that the Bible is the inspired word of God. If it were to be so, God should at least show an understanding of the natural world beyond what would be expected of a mere mortal of the time. These aren't just mistranslations or misunderstandings, these Biblical stories show all of the sanity and restraint of fairy-tales.
Christian Graus wrote:
Actually, it doesn't. Gen 1 says that He created men and women ( plural ) and Gen 2 says He formed Adam and Eve, they are two accounts of two different things, with no indication of how far apart they were. Given that the earth is a lot older than 6,000 years, this is hardly surprising.
So you think it's more likely that God just majicked some people into existence, lets them do their own thing, and then creates two new people for apparently no reason? Why does he need Adam's rib to create Eve? I mean, he created women beforehand, no sweat. Why would he create them, anyway, if he knew that they were going to be tempted by one of his own creations? Why did he create the serpent? None of it makes sense!
Regarding the first point - the point of the bible is not to stand up to critical review. The old testament stories may well be largely allegorical. Either way, the height of a mountain does not affect the value of Jesus' teachings.
Ravel H. Joyce wrote:
None of it makes sense
Well, it does, but given your predisposition to assuming it doesn't, and the general worthlessness of the internet as a place to discuss such things, I'm not really feeling disposed to elucidate further. Nothing personal, I'm just seeing where this is headed and checking out early.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista.
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He said virga, not viagra. :laugh: Virga: Light wispy precipitation that evaporates before it reaches the ground (especially when the lower air is low in humidity)
Cheers, Vıkram.
Carpe Diem.
I know. I should have used a smiley to indicate that I was kidding.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista.
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led mike wrote:
It's against nature.
Of course. Humanity is unnatural.
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Of course I do! For example: God created the Universe. God decides that wearing wool and linen together is abhorrent. Therefore, Christianity makes sense. Question: before Noah's ark, i.e. before God created rainbows, what existed instead of refraction? :confused:
Ravel H. Joyce wrote:
what existed instead of refraction?
Good question. Without refraction wouldn't our eye's not work? Was the world blind before refraction? That would make building that ark a bit harder. And I suppose to get the gender of the animals right you'd have to check by hand....
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Christian Graus wrote:
The core issue is that it's not long enough ago since your forefathers dragged his forefathers into boats and enslaved them. So, everyone is worried that anything they do to make fun of Obama will be seen as racially inspired. This doesn't mean the Obama crowd is BEHIND such feeling. I am sure that if a child HAD been stopped from wearing a Bush mask, you'd be hard pressed to find Democrats stupid enough to blame Bush for it.
The core issue is that you're an ignorant git. Actually, and as always, the core issue is that you're intellectually dishonest (i.e. worse than a mere liar), but the phrase "ignorant git" is somewhat popular with your set.
Thanks for playing. Someone who I believe you claim to respect said 'by their fruits shall ye know them'. Your fruits appear to be rotten. Do you resort to insult because it helps your self righteousness, or is it a mask for when you don't have any comeback to things people say to you ?
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista.