Is Taxation Voluntary?

martin_hughes

The question the conspiracists ask is how did the US exist before the Income Tax. I'm certain I don't know, and given income tax has been a British institution since medieval times I'm sure I'm not the best person to answer it either. But it's interesting nonetheless.

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Christian Graus

The answer is obvious. They existed without centralised government because they were not a superpower, and were not bent on creating a world wide empire. They also didn't have any forms of welfare, because life was a lot simpler, and more community based.

Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista.

Ilion

martin_hughes wrote:

I sort of got what Reid's point was. ...

But his "point" was to use equivocation (i.e. intellectual dishonesty) to deny that the question being asked him was even valid.

martin_hughes

I'm not so sure about that. The US of A certainly had imperialistic tenancies well before the income tax (Andrew Jackson et al), but it's intriguing that Income Tax was such a late addition to the statute books in the US.

print "http://www.codeproject.com".toURL().text Ain't that Groovy?

Ilion

Mike Gaskey wrote:

Sorry, I simply can't watch Reid without puking, ...

I had a similar reaction, an immediate and visceral disgust with the man.

Christian Graus

Mike and Ilion, in a tree.....

Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista.

Christian Graus

yeah, perhaps, but if they did, it would not be on the scale, or the financial cost to maintain, that they have today. It's a cheap shot, there's plenty of other things they need to pay for that require taxes.

Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista.

martin_hughes

Ilíon wrote:

But his "point" was to use equivocation (i.e. intellectual dishonesty) to deny that the question being asked him was even valid.

From what Rob was saying up-yonder, it appears my view of the US tax system is out of date, however I've yet to come across a politician who doesn't do that. But yeah - the man is clearly trying to use language to bamboozle rather than to edify.

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Mike Gaskey

Rob Graham wrote:

This will make me think about ramping up my claimed exemptions to the max, and stopping filing.

I believe there are 2 viable options, but I'm not 100% certain. The first is as you suggest, claim 99 dependents. I believe your employer is obligated to report to the IRS when someone does this. The second is to request that a specific amount be deducted, not a tabular % but the specific amount you want withheld - $50 per check for exampple.

Mike - typical white guy. The USA does have universal healthcare, but you have to pay for it. D'oh. Thomas Mann - "Tolerance becomes a crime when applied to evil." The NYT - my leftist brochure. Calling an illegal alien an “undocumented immigrant” is like calling a drug dealer an “unlicensed pharmacist”. God doesn't believe in atheists, therefore they don't exist.

Mike Gaskey

Oakman wrote:

Any of the Mossberg 590's are good to have around, too

actually I visited a local gunshop the other day. the had a cammo Mossberg 500 in stock for $599, $100 over the Mossberg catalog price.

Mike - typical white guy. The USA does have universal healthcare, but you have to pay for it. D'oh. Thomas Mann - "Tolerance becomes a crime when applied to evil." The NYT - my leftist brochure. Calling an illegal alien an “undocumented immigrant” is like calling a drug dealer an “unlicensed pharmacist”. God doesn't believe in atheists, therefore they don't exist.

martin_hughes

Christian Graus wrote:

It's a cheap shot, there's plenty of other things they need to pay for that require taxes.

I'm not so sure about that, either. Is the only tax paid in Aus the Income Tax? Or do you have things like VAT, Corporation Tax, the TV licence, Council Tax, the Fishing Licence etc.?

print "http://www.codeproject.com".toURL().text Ain't that Groovy?

Mike Gaskey

Christian Graus wrote:

Mike and Ilion, in a tree.....

sometimes the stars are aligned.

Mike - typical white guy. The USA does have universal healthcare, but you have to pay for it. D'oh. Thomas Mann - "Tolerance becomes a crime when applied to evil." The NYT - my leftist brochure. Calling an illegal alien an “undocumented immigrant” is like calling a drug dealer an “unlicensed pharmacist”. God doesn't believe in atheists, therefore they don't exist.

Oakman

500 is a beauty, too, but the extra three rounds might come in handy if the revenoors show up.

Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface

Oakman

martin_hughes wrote:

how did the US exist before the Income Tax.

Tariffs, actually. Until the 1900's one of the best patronage jobs the government could give away was to be in charge of the customs house on any of the major seaports.

Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface

TheGreatAndPowerfulOz

it's been that way for almost 100 years.