interview question
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mr_lasseter wrote:
Is it too much to ask for both? And yes I could answer the question, although to be honest I did have a hard time remembering what the 'I' stood for.
I tend to subscribe to the Guerrilla Guide[^] when doing interviews. Knowing the definitions of things like SOLID, OO Pillars etc. is book regurgitation. I want to know how someone applies said techniques, how they architect an application, what patterns do they commonly use, do they consider the absence of source control the 8th deadly sin, do they practice TDD & CI, can they design their own containers, etc. These are all questions which draw upon their past experiences instead of providing the definitions of academic terminology.
Todd Smith
Todd Smith wrote:
absence of source control the 8th deadly sin
There are other deadly sins? :omg:
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JimmyRopes wrote:
Are C++ and/or C# object oriented languages?
Not if you ask a SmallTalker (not that there are many of them left)
You mean we missed a few? Dammit, now I've got to reload.
Software Zen:
delete this;
Fold With Us![^] -
mr_lasseter wrote:
Someone who wrote code in SmallTalk
That begs the question “Are C++ and/or C# object oriented languages”? :) And yes the answer is pedantic.
Simply Elegant Designs JimmyRopes Designs
Think inside the box! ProActive Secure Systems
I'm on-line therefore I am. JimmyRopesIf you want pedantry, that is not begging the question[^], but raising, highlighting, or introducing, the question. ;P
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Ah, the three pillars of object oriented programming: 1) Don't be a dumbass Oh well, just one.
Anyone who thinks he has a better idea of what's good for people than people do is a swine. - P.J. O'Rourke
Sounds like my interviewing technique, AYAJ. My goal is to answer the question, Are You A Jerk?
Software Zen:
delete this;
Fold With Us![^] -
Three pillars? Not sure. Are you speaking of abstraction, encapsulation, polymorphism, modularity and inheritance?
जय हिंद
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Todd Smith wrote:
absence of source control the 8th deadly sin
There are other deadly sins? :omg:
There's "No kettles allowed"... That's even higher! Iain.
In the process of moving to Sweden for love (awwww). If you're in Scandinavia and want an MVP on the payroll (or happy with a remote worker), give me a job!
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Just curious as to everyone thoughts on asking OO if developers they know the three pillars of Object Oriented Programming. Our company has been interviewing lately and not many developers (some considered to be senior) can answer this question. Is this uncommon knowledge?
Mike Lasseter
Calling them "pillars" is probably confusing the applicants (a sub-standard vocabulary is as much of a problem as lack of programming knowledge, IMHO).
"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
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"...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001 -
Three pillars? Not sure. Are you speaking of abstraction, encapsulation, polymorphism, modularity and inheritance?
जय हिंद
In true Douglas Adams trilogy style! :D
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encapsulation, polymorphism, and inheritance. So perhaps a better question would be what features make a language object oriented?
Mike Lasseter
That's a good question, but your "three pillars" aren't the answer to this. C provides encapsulation through compilation unit static entities, polymorphism through function pointers and inheritance through pointer casts. I wouldn#t call it "object oriented", though :) Anyway, if this question is a starter for a discussion about OO and related concepts, fine. If that's just a fact checker, and I get 4/4 points when I mention them in correct order, I'd be hesitant to work at your place.
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Is it too much to ask for both? And yes I could answer the question, although to be honest I did have a hard time remembering what the 'I' stood for.
Mike Lasseter
I just wouldn't waste the face-to-face interview with that.
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Just curious as to everyone thoughts on asking OO if developers they know the three pillars of Object Oriented Programming. Our company has been interviewing lately and not many developers (some considered to be senior) can answer this question. Is this uncommon knowledge?
Mike Lasseter
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If you want pedantry, that is not begging the question[^], but raising, highlighting, or introducing, the question. ;P
Brady Kelly wrote:
If you want pedantry, that is not begging the question[^], but raising, highlighting, or introducing, the question
Wikipedia:
In logic, begging the question has traditionally described a type of logical fallacy ...
When did I ever imply I was being logical? ;)
Simply Elegant Designs JimmyRopes Designs
Think inside the box! ProActive Secure Systems
I'm on-line therefore I am. JimmyRopes -
Brady Kelly wrote:
If you want pedantry, that is not begging the question[^], but raising, highlighting, or introducing, the question
Wikipedia:
In logic, begging the question has traditionally described a type of logical fallacy ...
When did I ever imply I was being logical? ;)
Simply Elegant Designs JimmyRopes Designs
Think inside the box! ProActive Secure Systems
I'm on-line therefore I am. JimmyRopesJimmyRopes wrote:
When did I ever imply I was being logical? Wink
Where did I state that I assumed you were being logical? I was merely elucidating, for the good of all, on the term "begging the question". ;P
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Ravi Bhavnani wrote:
I guess you could say it's a variant of the Filter[^] pattern.
That looks like an attempt at making mini-linq implemented with generics. Apparently predicate [^]isn't in his vocabulary :doh: BTW when did someone decide that alternating row colors made code easier to read. It really screws up my brain's pattern matching ability. I try to recall the code on his blog and all I see are alternating colors. I've had that same experience from other phenomena before such as staring at this[^].
Todd Smith
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Sounds like my interviewing technique, AYAJ. My goal is to answer the question, Are You A Jerk?
Software Zen:
delete this;
Fold With Us![^]Gary R. Wheeler wrote:
Are You A Jerk?
Followed by the Costanza special, "Oh yeah? The jerk store called. They're running out of you!". :) /ravi
My new year resolution: 2048 x 1536 Home | Articles | My .NET bits | Freeware ravib(at)ravib(dot)com
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Just curious as to everyone thoughts on asking OO if developers they know the three pillars of Object Oriented Programming. Our company has been interviewing lately and not many developers (some considered to be senior) can answer this question. Is this uncommon knowledge?
Mike Lasseter
There are three, five, or eight, or any other number depending on the book you read. So my answer is usually, which three do you want me to parrot from the book? To be honest knowing the principles of OO from a book and being able to actually use them in code is so far removed as to make the question worthless.
Need custom software developed? I do C# development and consulting all over the United States. A man said to the universe: "Sir I exist!" "However," replied the universe, "The fact has not created in me A sense of obligation." --Stephen Crane
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Just curious as to everyone thoughts on asking OO if developers they know the three pillars of Object Oriented Programming. Our company has been interviewing lately and not many developers (some considered to be senior) can answer this question. Is this uncommon knowledge?
Mike Lasseter
If you want someone who can do the job - give them a task that is reasonably demanding (not too demanding) and the tools to research if needed i.e. books, internet access. Give the task to an existing colleague/employee first and see how long it takes them. Give the candidate double that time and see the outcome. A real world situation like this is going to get you someone who can really do what you need, not just recite crap from college, buzzwords etc... Even if they have no previous experience, you might find they are perfect for the job.
Dave
BTW, in software, hope and pray is not a viable strategy. (Luc Pattyn)
Visual Basic is not used by normal people so we're not covering it here. (Uncyclopedia) -
Just curious as to everyone thoughts on asking OO if developers they know the three pillars of Object Oriented Programming. Our company has been interviewing lately and not many developers (some considered to be senior) can answer this question. Is this uncommon knowledge?
Mike Lasseter
Three pillars? Never heard of it. I'd fail your interview and I've been chief developer at a very successful company for well over a decade. If you're looking for developers who are primarily good at memorizing nonsense then it sounds like you're on the right track. On the other hand if you want good effective people look at the work they've done and perhaps get them to do some work for you as a test.
"It's so simple to be wise. Just think of something stupid to say and then don't say it." -Sam Levenson
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Just curious as to everyone thoughts on asking OO if developers they know the three pillars of Object Oriented Programming. Our company has been interviewing lately and not many developers (some considered to be senior) can answer this question. Is this uncommon knowledge?
Mike Lasseter
Any one can read in an hour on wikipedia to understand the major design patterns, pillars, etc., but it takes a special effort to always stay connected to a community where you might see it on display. I honestly do ask our candidates, "what are your favorite periodicals or websites?", hoping for them to say "codeproject.com", or something like that (what else I don't know).
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Three pillars? Never heard of it. I'd fail your interview and I've been chief developer at a very successful company for well over a decade. If you're looking for developers who are primarily good at memorizing nonsense then it sounds like you're on the right track. On the other hand if you want good effective people look at the work they've done and perhaps get them to do some work for you as a test.
"It's so simple to be wise. Just think of something stupid to say and then don't say it." -Sam Levenson
Answering that question wrong or right doesn't alone make a difference in whether you get the job or not, but I didn't think that it would be that uncommon knowledge. I guess I will stop asking the question...
Mike Lasseter
