Computer Monitoring Software and the Ethical Questions Therein
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Hey all, I've been reading articles lately regarding software used for checking to see what a computer is being used for--things like logging where internet traffic is headed, logging chat sessions, keystrokes, etc. And before I open this can of worms, this is in regards to personal home computers, not computers out in the wild. I'm definitely not trying to start up an argument here--I'd just like to hear what your thoughts are on this type of thing and why you believe the way you do about it. Here at CP we've got a wide amount of disciplines, cultural and ideological views, so I want to tap it. Do you think this kind of software has its place and can be helpful somehow? Do you think it's an invasion of privacy even if it's within your own home? Do you think this is totally outrageous and peoples' privacy should be hands-off? Torpedo away! Michael Fritzius
To me, Communication comes first, technology does not solve my problems, it only takes them to underground. I use monitoring tools on my home computer to check what the kids are doing. But before I even installed it, I told them and we had frank discussion. They know it is running and I keep my eye wide open. No one is allowed to change the setting. [I'm the only one who have an access to it] If I notice something, we get together and talk about it. I found this combined (hi/low tech) approach works better for me. Now, who gets to monitor my activities :sigh: :-\ :-O :rolleyes:
Yusuf Oh didn't you notice, analogous to square roots, they recently introduced rectangular, circular, and diamond roots to determine the size of the corresponding shapes when given the area. Luc Pattyn[^]
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Hey all, I've been reading articles lately regarding software used for checking to see what a computer is being used for--things like logging where internet traffic is headed, logging chat sessions, keystrokes, etc. And before I open this can of worms, this is in regards to personal home computers, not computers out in the wild. I'm definitely not trying to start up an argument here--I'd just like to hear what your thoughts are on this type of thing and why you believe the way you do about it. Here at CP we've got a wide amount of disciplines, cultural and ideological views, so I want to tap it. Do you think this kind of software has its place and can be helpful somehow? Do you think it's an invasion of privacy even if it's within your own home? Do you think this is totally outrageous and peoples' privacy should be hands-off? Torpedo away! Michael Fritzius
It really depends on who is doing it when and for what reason. E.g. Surely a parent with good reason to believe their child is prey to sexual misconduct would want to, at some point, monitor that child's use of a computer?
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To me, Communication comes first, technology does not solve my problems, it only takes them to underground. I use monitoring tools on my home computer to check what the kids are doing. But before I even installed it, I told them and we had frank discussion. They know it is running and I keep my eye wide open. No one is allowed to change the setting. [I'm the only one who have an access to it] If I notice something, we get together and talk about it. I found this combined (hi/low tech) approach works better for me. Now, who gets to monitor my activities :sigh: :-\ :-O :rolleyes:
Yusuf Oh didn't you notice, analogous to square roots, they recently introduced rectangular, circular, and diamond roots to determine the size of the corresponding shapes when given the area. Luc Pattyn[^]
You're absolutely right. Nothing can replace talking to your kids. :thumbsup:
Best wishes, Hans
[CodeProject Forum Guidelines] [How To Ask A Question] [My Articles]
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Until, of course, you realise
that ******* person
is you.
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Hey all, I've been reading articles lately regarding software used for checking to see what a computer is being used for--things like logging where internet traffic is headed, logging chat sessions, keystrokes, etc. And before I open this can of worms, this is in regards to personal home computers, not computers out in the wild. I'm definitely not trying to start up an argument here--I'd just like to hear what your thoughts are on this type of thing and why you believe the way you do about it. Here at CP we've got a wide amount of disciplines, cultural and ideological views, so I want to tap it. Do you think this kind of software has its place and can be helpful somehow? Do you think it's an invasion of privacy even if it's within your own home? Do you think this is totally outrageous and peoples' privacy should be hands-off? Torpedo away! Michael Fritzius
So what purpose would it serve? Spy on your family? Spying is spying, no matter what purpose you claim it's for. Of course if it is to keep people from sneaking on your own personal computer while you aren't watching, that's different. (more of a security camera than a spy camera, so to speak)
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It really depends on who is doing it when and for what reason. E.g. Surely a parent with good reason to believe their child is prey to sexual misconduct would want to, at some point, monitor that child's use of a computer?
Brady Kelly wrote:
Surely a parent with good reason to believe their child is prey to sexual misconduct would want to
I'd not wait till then. Monitoring all the time will show an early sign of problem. But monitoring by it self does not cure it. There needs to be frank discussion at all times, before, during and after issues.
Yusuf Oh didn't you notice, analogous to square roots, they recently introduced rectangular, circular, and diamond roots to determine the size of the corresponding shapes when given the area. Luc Pattyn[^]
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To me, Communication comes first, technology does not solve my problems, it only takes them to underground. I use monitoring tools on my home computer to check what the kids are doing. But before I even installed it, I told them and we had frank discussion. They know it is running and I keep my eye wide open. No one is allowed to change the setting. [I'm the only one who have an access to it] If I notice something, we get together and talk about it. I found this combined (hi/low tech) approach works better for me. Now, who gets to monitor my activities :sigh: :-\ :-O :rolleyes:
Yusuf Oh didn't you notice, analogous to square roots, they recently introduced rectangular, circular, and diamond roots to determine the size of the corresponding shapes when given the area. Luc Pattyn[^]
Yusuf hit the nail on the head - I would only offer two additional comments; 1) Combine monitoring with a DNS filtering program such as Host Manager or use Open DNS and apply filters. 2) Kids will quickly learn to defeat any monitoring program, but that is a mixed blessing. On the positive side it shows technical growth and a healthy curiosity. That's where the communications become the most important aspect. Yusuf - we are monitoring your usage…..
Melting Away www.deals-house.com www.innovative--concepts.com
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Brady Kelly wrote:
Surely a parent with good reason to believe their child is prey to sexual misconduct would want to
I'd not wait till then. Monitoring all the time will show an early sign of problem. But monitoring by it self does not cure it. There needs to be frank discussion at all times, before, during and after issues.
Yusuf Oh didn't you notice, analogous to square roots, they recently introduced rectangular, circular, and diamond roots to determine the size of the corresponding shapes when given the area. Luc Pattyn[^]
Yes, you have a point, but I wouldn't want to be reading everything posted by my child etc. I would like them to know that they have a degree of privacy. I might also stress that they never know who they are talking to unless it's in person. :suss:
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Yes, you have a point, but I wouldn't want to be reading everything posted by my child etc. I would like them to know that they have a degree of privacy. I might also stress that they never know who they are talking to unless it's in person. :suss:
Brady Kelly wrote:
but I wouldn't want to be reading everything posted by my child etc
No I don't, but I want to know which sites they visit. They know I use CP but they don't need to know all my posting. Similarly, I want to know which sites they visit, but I don't monitor their messages.
Brady Kelly wrote:
I would like them to know that they have a degree of privacy.
They get the same level of privacy as in real life. When I am out in the street, there are some public knowledge, the fact I was there at that time, my appearance etc, but the public does not know much detail about me. Similarly, like I said, I want to know the sites they visit, but not what they did there.
Brady Kelly wrote:
I might also stress that they never know who they are talking to unless it's in person.
Until they reach certain age, they are only allowed to talk to people who they know them in person (friend, family, classmates ...)
Yusuf Oh didn't you notice, analogous to square roots, they recently introduced rectangular, circular, and diamond roots to determine the size of the corresponding shapes when given the area. Luc Pattyn[^]
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Hey all, I've been reading articles lately regarding software used for checking to see what a computer is being used for--things like logging where internet traffic is headed, logging chat sessions, keystrokes, etc. And before I open this can of worms, this is in regards to personal home computers, not computers out in the wild. I'm definitely not trying to start up an argument here--I'd just like to hear what your thoughts are on this type of thing and why you believe the way you do about it. Here at CP we've got a wide amount of disciplines, cultural and ideological views, so I want to tap it. Do you think this kind of software has its place and can be helpful somehow? Do you think it's an invasion of privacy even if it's within your own home? Do you think this is totally outrageous and peoples' privacy should be hands-off? Torpedo away! Michael Fritzius
When my daughters reach internet using age I will have any computers they touch loaded with spyware. They will not, however, be allowed to use mine :D
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You're absolutely right. Nothing can replace talking to your kids. :thumbsup:
Best wishes, Hans
[CodeProject Forum Guidelines] [How To Ask A Question] [My Articles]
Hans Dietrich wrote:
Nothing can replace talking to your kids. Thumbs Up
Oh, I don't know. Banging your head against the nearest hard surface sometimes comes close. :-D
Henry Minute Do not read medical books! You could die of a misprint. - Mark Twain Girl: (staring) "Why do you need an icy cucumber?" “I want to report a fraud. The government is lying to us all.”
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Hey all, I've been reading articles lately regarding software used for checking to see what a computer is being used for--things like logging where internet traffic is headed, logging chat sessions, keystrokes, etc. And before I open this can of worms, this is in regards to personal home computers, not computers out in the wild. I'm definitely not trying to start up an argument here--I'd just like to hear what your thoughts are on this type of thing and why you believe the way you do about it. Here at CP we've got a wide amount of disciplines, cultural and ideological views, so I want to tap it. Do you think this kind of software has its place and can be helpful somehow? Do you think it's an invasion of privacy even if it's within your own home? Do you think this is totally outrageous and peoples' privacy should be hands-off? Torpedo away! Michael Fritzius
I don't have any children, and I don't need to spy on my wife because I can just get her drunk and then she tells me everything. That said, I can understand wanting to keep children safe. I think children growing up today can be exposed to a lot more dangers than when I was growing up, simply because technology brings those dangers into the home. You hear these terrible stories of paedophiles "grooming" children at home via the internet, suicide pacts and internet-organised gang violence amongst other horror stories - not to mention the sheer amount of material that's available on the Internet that I find unsuitable for myself, let alone children - even the supposedly "funny" stuff like goatse man, tub girl and that two-girls and a cup thing*. However, I don't think surveillance can replace supervision. Targeted surveillance, used by law enforcement officials, assists in building a case that will later be brought against criminals. It is not preventative in any way, and in fact it works best if criminals continue to do unlawful things whilst under surveillance! My other big worry is that we are becoming a society that is used to and even accepts 24/7 surveillance without question. And for the generations to come, perhaps they'll accept it as the norm? My personal belief is that people should be able to go about their lawful business un-molested and un-observed, as we have as a species since time immemorial. * Important Safety Tip: If you don't know what this is don't Google it, don't look for it and DO NOT WATCH IT!
print "http://www.codeproject.com".toURL().text Ain't that Groovy?
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Hey all, I've been reading articles lately regarding software used for checking to see what a computer is being used for--things like logging where internet traffic is headed, logging chat sessions, keystrokes, etc. And before I open this can of worms, this is in regards to personal home computers, not computers out in the wild. I'm definitely not trying to start up an argument here--I'd just like to hear what your thoughts are on this type of thing and why you believe the way you do about it. Here at CP we've got a wide amount of disciplines, cultural and ideological views, so I want to tap it. Do you think this kind of software has its place and can be helpful somehow? Do you think it's an invasion of privacy even if it's within your own home? Do you think this is totally outrageous and peoples' privacy should be hands-off? Torpedo away! Michael Fritzius
This only applies to Americans, of course, but within that context I thought this relevant: Amendment IV The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized. If they thought this right important enough to be protected, does it really matter whether the culprit is the government or just an average Joe?
Christopher Duncan Author of The Career Programmer and Unite the Tribes www.PracticalUSA.com
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I don't have any children, and I don't need to spy on my wife because I can just get her drunk and then she tells me everything. That said, I can understand wanting to keep children safe. I think children growing up today can be exposed to a lot more dangers than when I was growing up, simply because technology brings those dangers into the home. You hear these terrible stories of paedophiles "grooming" children at home via the internet, suicide pacts and internet-organised gang violence amongst other horror stories - not to mention the sheer amount of material that's available on the Internet that I find unsuitable for myself, let alone children - even the supposedly "funny" stuff like goatse man, tub girl and that two-girls and a cup thing*. However, I don't think surveillance can replace supervision. Targeted surveillance, used by law enforcement officials, assists in building a case that will later be brought against criminals. It is not preventative in any way, and in fact it works best if criminals continue to do unlawful things whilst under surveillance! My other big worry is that we are becoming a society that is used to and even accepts 24/7 surveillance without question. And for the generations to come, perhaps they'll accept it as the norm? My personal belief is that people should be able to go about their lawful business un-molested and un-observed, as we have as a species since time immemorial. * Important Safety Tip: If you don't know what this is don't Google it, don't look for it and DO NOT WATCH IT!
print "http://www.codeproject.com".toURL().text Ain't that Groovy?
martin_hughes wrote:
My other big worry is that we are becoming a society that is used to and even accepts 24/7 surveillance without question. And for the generations to come, perhaps they'll accept it as the norm? My personal belief is that people should be able to go about their lawful business un-molested and un-observed
Absolutely. I think this is really one of the core issues of our time.
Christopher Duncan Author of The Career Programmer and Unite the Tribes www.PracticalUSA.com
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Hey all, I've been reading articles lately regarding software used for checking to see what a computer is being used for--things like logging where internet traffic is headed, logging chat sessions, keystrokes, etc. And before I open this can of worms, this is in regards to personal home computers, not computers out in the wild. I'm definitely not trying to start up an argument here--I'd just like to hear what your thoughts are on this type of thing and why you believe the way you do about it. Here at CP we've got a wide amount of disciplines, cultural and ideological views, so I want to tap it. Do you think this kind of software has its place and can be helpful somehow? Do you think it's an invasion of privacy even if it's within your own home? Do you think this is totally outrageous and peoples' privacy should be hands-off? Torpedo away! Michael Fritzius
A company has the legal right to use such software as does a parent. However, just because something is legal doesn't mean you should do it. Using such software sends very destructive messages to employees and family members, respectively. In narrow situations, they can be useful (the previous occupant of my cubical was fired after a keylogger showed he was doing almost nothing all day--apparently he was logging in and then just sitting there. A keylogger would have caught a guy at a previous company, but going with him coming in very late drunk every day was the more obvious way to go.)
Anyone who thinks he has a better idea of what's good for people than people do is a swine. - P.J. O'Rourke
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A company has the legal right to use such software as does a parent. However, just because something is legal doesn't mean you should do it. Using such software sends very destructive messages to employees and family members, respectively. In narrow situations, they can be useful (the previous occupant of my cubical was fired after a keylogger showed he was doing almost nothing all day--apparently he was logging in and then just sitting there. A keylogger would have caught a guy at a previous company, but going with him coming in very late drunk every day was the more obvious way to go.)
Anyone who thinks he has a better idea of what's good for people than people do is a swine. - P.J. O'Rourke
Joe Woodbury wrote:
just because something is legal doesn't mean you should do it
Joe, The US courts have held companies liable for the actions of employees when using the company computers on the basis that the company had an obligation to supervise and control employee activities. I agree with you that undisclosed monitoring is bad for employee morale. It is much better for the company to have a written policy and inform employees’ on day one that they are subject to monitoring. We spell it out in the employee manual which new hires have to sign acknowledging they have read and understand the policies. (All employment policies not just computer usage.) In reality I have only looked at a couple questionable activities over the years. Nor have we had any hard feelings about the policy. It just needs to be explained up front. I probably would be the worst offender - I guess that's one of the (few) perks of signing the checks.
Melting Away www.deals-house.com www.innovative--concepts.com
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Hans Dietrich wrote:
Nothing can replace talking to your kids. Thumbs Up
Oh, I don't know. Banging your head against the nearest hard surface sometimes comes close. :-D
Henry Minute Do not read medical books! You could die of a misprint. - Mark Twain Girl: (staring) "Why do you need an icy cucumber?" “I want to report a fraud. The government is lying to us all.”
Henry Minute wrote:
Banging your head against the nearest hard surface sometimes comes close
Banging their heads can be more productive, you may need to break the hard surface. I alway found talking to them a good first step, only resorting to the hard surface when their eyes glaze over.
Never underestimate the power of human stupidity RAH
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Until, of course, you realise
that ******* person
is you.
10110011001111101010101000001000001101001010001010100000100000101000001000111100010110001011001011
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This only applies to Americans, of course, but within that context I thought this relevant: Amendment IV The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized. If they thought this right important enough to be protected, does it really matter whether the culprit is the government or just an average Joe?
Christopher Duncan Author of The Career Programmer and Unite the Tribes www.PracticalUSA.com
As many conservative pundits have gleefully pointed out when minorities complain, that law does not guarantee a right to privacy. It only guarantees that police and other government authorities cannot break into your premises looking for evidence unless the get permission under specific circumstances. For example, it is not used as the basis for arresting someone who breaks into your house. If your interpretation were correct, then it would be. I really wish "privacy" was a constitutionally guaranteed right. But it is not.
My other signature is a Porche.
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As many conservative pundits have gleefully pointed out when minorities complain, that law does not guarantee a right to privacy. It only guarantees that police and other government authorities cannot break into your premises looking for evidence unless the get permission under specific circumstances. For example, it is not used as the basis for arresting someone who breaks into your house. If your interpretation were correct, then it would be. I really wish "privacy" was a constitutionally guaranteed right. But it is not.
My other signature is a Porche.
The constitution is a living document, and is also subject to legal interpretation by the courts in the context of the times. The idea of being secure in one's home, papers, effects, etc. as outlined in the fourth amendment could in fact be interpreted as a guarantee of privacy in many scenarios. The fact that this legal precedent has not yet been established doesn't mean it's not a constitutionally guaranteed right, only that a successful legal argument hasn't been presented in the courts. And while lawyers might contend that "the law is the law," interpretation will always be subject to the social environment of the times. We simply haven't reached the tipping point where this issue becomes hotly contested enough to push such a legislative effort to more specifically define these rights through legal rulings and precedent. I have little doubt, however, that as time and technology go on it will eventually become quite the social hot button. I have little faith in politicians of any stripe. I do, however, have great faith in the overall architecture of the government, designed as it is to not only anticipate human greed and the desire for power, but actually use it to keep things in balance. It was a work of pure genius.
Christopher Duncan Author of The Career Programmer and Unite the Tribes www.PracticalUSA.com