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  • I Ilion

    Oakman wrote:

    Bankruptcy used to thought of as something to be avoided, even ashamed of. Now it's a chance to thumb your nose at people who trusted you and call them "suckers."

    You really ought to make up your mind as to where you're going to stand ... is our society to be organized around morality or around legality? You explicitly reject the former, yet here you are bitching about the natural result of the latter (and your bitch is coherent only in a context of the former).

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    Christian Graus
    wrote on last edited by
    #15

    Ilíon wrote:

    and your bitch is coherent only

    Yeah, my bitch is not coherent at all, no matter how much I smack her.....

    Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. "I am new to programming world. I have been learning c# for about past four weeks. I am quite acquainted with the fundamentals of c#. Now I have to work on a project which converts given flat files to XML using the XML serialization method" - SK64 ( but the forums have stuff like this posted every day )

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    • C Christian Graus

      Ilíon wrote:

      and your bitch is coherent only

      Yeah, my bitch is not coherent at all, no matter how much I smack her.....

      Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. "I am new to programming world. I have been learning c# for about past four weeks. I am quite acquainted with the fundamentals of c#. Now I have to work on a project which converts given flat files to XML using the XML serialization method" - SK64 ( but the forums have stuff like this posted every day )

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      Rob Graham
      wrote on last edited by
      #16

      :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

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      • O Oakman

        Christian Graus wrote:

        I wonder how closely GM are tied to Holden here in Australia

        GM owns Holden.

        Christian Graus wrote:

        I've not heard anything about them being in trouble.

        In a report on the future of Australia's automobile industry from AAP that was hosted on several news sites, Clive Matthew-Wilson, Editor of the car buyers Dog & Lemon Guide, claims that Holden will most likely be the first carmaker from Down-Under to bite the dust due to the recession[^] I am afraid that now you have. :(

        Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Both democrats and republicans are playing for the same team and it's not us. - Chris Austin

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        Christian Graus
        wrote on last edited by
        #17

        Too bad, I was always a Holden man, although I see more Fords on the road, and drive all Toyotas nowadays.

        Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. "I am new to programming world. I have been learning c# for about past four weeks. I am quite acquainted with the fundamentals of c#. Now I have to work on a project which converts given flat files to XML using the XML serialization method" - SK64 ( but the forums have stuff like this posted every day )

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        • C Christian Graus

          Ilíon wrote:

          and your bitch is coherent only

          Yeah, my bitch is not coherent at all, no matter how much I smack her.....

          Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. "I am new to programming world. I have been learning c# for about past four weeks. I am quite acquainted with the fundamentals of c#. Now I have to work on a project which converts given flat files to XML using the XML serialization method" - SK64 ( but the forums have stuff like this posted every day )

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          Oakman
          wrote on last edited by
          #18

          Christian Graus wrote:

          my bitch is not coherent at all, no matter how much I smack her.....

          Arf! :thumbsup:

          Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Both democrats and republicans are playing for the same team and it's not us. - Chris Austin

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          • C Christian Graus

            Ilíon wrote:

            and your bitch is coherent only

            Yeah, my bitch is not coherent at all, no matter how much I smack her.....

            Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. "I am new to programming world. I have been learning c# for about past four weeks. I am quite acquainted with the fundamentals of c#. Now I have to work on a project which converts given flat files to XML using the XML serialization method" - SK64 ( but the forums have stuff like this posted every day )

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            Chris Austin
            wrote on last edited by
            #19

            :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: I am lucky I swallowed the gulp of water I had just taken right before reading your post.

            Sovereign ingredient for a happy marriage: Pay cash or do without. Interest charges not only eat up a household budget; awareness of debt eats up domestic felicity. --Lazarus Long Avoid the crowd. Do your own thinking independently. Be the chess player, not the chess piece. --Ralph Charell

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            • O Oakman

              Chris Austin wrote:

              Then again, that is what a lot of people say about EVE Online

              I have great respect for the boyos over at Eve, but no desire to play the game. I prefer the kind of combat algorithms that Civ 4 employs which deal in probabilities, not absolutes.

              Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Both democrats and republicans are playing for the same team and it's not us. - Chris Austin

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              Chris Austin
              wrote on last edited by
              #20

              Oakman wrote:

              I have great respect for the boyos over at Eve, but no desire to play the game.

              I've enjoyed the game the times I've played it but not enough to hang around for more than a month. The times I have had the chance to chat with some of the team members they are very friendly and really enthusiastic about their work. They gave a really good talk at this years pycon here[^] and here[^].

              Oakman wrote:

              I prefer the kind of combat algorithms that Civ 4 employs which deal in probabilities, not absolutes.

              Another game that has stolen nights from me. My wife pretty much forced me to remove it from my game machine.

              Sovereign ingredient for a happy marriage: Pay cash or do without. Interest charges not only eat up a household budget; awareness of debt eats up domestic felicity. --Lazarus Long Avoid the crowd. Do your own thinking independently. Be the chess player, not the chess piece. --Ralph Charell

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              • C Chris Austin

                Oakman wrote:

                I have great respect for the boyos over at Eve, but no desire to play the game.

                I've enjoyed the game the times I've played it but not enough to hang around for more than a month. The times I have had the chance to chat with some of the team members they are very friendly and really enthusiastic about their work. They gave a really good talk at this years pycon here[^] and here[^].

                Oakman wrote:

                I prefer the kind of combat algorithms that Civ 4 employs which deal in probabilities, not absolutes.

                Another game that has stolen nights from me. My wife pretty much forced me to remove it from my game machine.

                Sovereign ingredient for a happy marriage: Pay cash or do without. Interest charges not only eat up a household budget; awareness of debt eats up domestic felicity. --Lazarus Long Avoid the crowd. Do your own thinking independently. Be the chess player, not the chess piece. --Ralph Charell

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                Oakman
                wrote on last edited by
                #21

                Chris Austin wrote:

                My wife pretty much forced me to remove it from my game machine.

                Just one more turn, honey. Then I'll come to bed. . .

                Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Both democrats and republicans are playing for the same team and it's not us. - Chris Austin

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                • C Christian Graus

                  Too bad, I was always a Holden man, although I see more Fords on the road, and drive all Toyotas nowadays.

                  Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. "I am new to programming world. I have been learning c# for about past four weeks. I am quite acquainted with the fundamentals of c#. Now I have to work on a project which converts given flat files to XML using the XML serialization method" - SK64 ( but the forums have stuff like this posted every day )

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                  Lost User
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #22

                  Christian Graus wrote:

                  Too bad, I was always a Holden man, although I see more Fords on the road, and drive all Toyotas nowadays.

                  Have no fear, Kev will save us!!!!

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                  • L Lost User

                    Christian Graus wrote:

                    Too bad, I was always a Holden man, although I see more Fords on the road, and drive all Toyotas nowadays.

                    Have no fear, Kev will save us!!!!

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                    Christian Graus
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #23

                    Yeah, I feel much better now....

                    Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. "I am new to programming world. I have been learning c# for about past four weeks. I am quite acquainted with the fundamentals of c#. Now I have to work on a project which converts given flat files to XML using the XML serialization method" - SK64 ( but the forums have stuff like this posted every day )

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                    • C Christian Graus

                      Ilíon wrote:

                      and your bitch is coherent only

                      Yeah, my bitch is not coherent at all, no matter how much I smack her.....

                      Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. "I am new to programming world. I have been learning c# for about past four weeks. I am quite acquainted with the fundamentals of c#. Now I have to work on a project which converts given flat files to XML using the XML serialization method" - SK64 ( but the forums have stuff like this posted every day )

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                      Ilion
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #24

                      That was so lame X| , and so automatic :zzz: ... and, naturally, pretty much what one has learned to expect.

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                      • I Ilion

                        That was so lame X| , and so automatic :zzz: ... and, naturally, pretty much what one has learned to expect.

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                        Christian Graus
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #25

                        Wow - the approval of people who I respect, and the disapproval of the person who I don't. That's what I call a 100% success rate.

                        Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. "I am new to programming world. I have been learning c# for about past four weeks. I am quite acquainted with the fundamentals of c#. Now I have to work on a project which converts given flat files to XML using the XML serialization method" - SK64 ( but the forums have stuff like this posted every day )

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                        • I Ilion

                          That was so lame X| , and so automatic :zzz: ... and, naturally, pretty much what one has learned to expect.

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                          Rob Graham
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #26

                          Since you like them, here's one for you: :thumbsdown:

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                          • R Rob Graham

                            Since you like them, here's one for you: :thumbsdown:

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                            Chris Austin
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #27

                            :thumbsup:

                            Sovereign ingredient for a happy marriage: Pay cash or do without. Interest charges not only eat up a household budget; awareness of debt eats up domestic felicity. --Lazarus Long Avoid the crowd. Do your own thinking independently. Be the chess player, not the chess piece. --Ralph Charell

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                            • C Christian Graus

                              Wow - the approval of people who I respect, and the disapproval of the person who I don't. That's what I call a 100% success rate.

                              Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. "I am new to programming world. I have been learning c# for about past four weeks. I am quite acquainted with the fundamentals of c#. Now I have to work on a project which converts given flat files to XML using the XML serialization method" - SK64 ( but the forums have stuff like this posted every day )

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                              Oakman
                              wrote on last edited by
                              #28

                              Christian Graus wrote:

                              That's what I call a 100% success rate.

                              :thumbsup::thumbsup:

                              Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Both democrats and republicans are playing for the same team and it's not us. - Chris Austin

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                              • R Rob Graham

                                Since you like them, here's one for you: :thumbsdown:

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                                Oakman
                                wrote on last edited by
                                #29

                                :thumbsup::thumbsup:

                                Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Both democrats and republicans are playing for the same team and it's not us. - Chris Austin

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                                • O Oakman

                                  Ilíon wrote:

                                  You explicitly reject the former

                                  I think you're confusing morality with religion - they often have nothinbg to do with each other. I have offered a definition of morality, not based on a fear of what the priests and prophets will say their god wants (besides large donations to them) but instead on the survival of the species.

                                  Ilíon wrote:

                                  about the natural result of the latter

                                  Say what? The rule of law has as its result, the right to break contracts with impugnity? What are you smoking today?

                                  Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Both democrats and republicans are playing for the same team and it's not us. - Chris Austin

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                                  Brady Kelly
                                  wrote on last edited by
                                  #30

                                  Oakman wrote:

                                  I think you're confusing morality with religio

                                  Ilion's opinion of our nature, and implicitly of his own, precludes morality without religion.

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                                  • O Oakman

                                    Ilíon wrote:

                                    You explicitly reject the former

                                    I think you're confusing morality with religion - they often have nothinbg to do with each other. I have offered a definition of morality, not based on a fear of what the priests and prophets will say their god wants (besides large donations to them) but instead on the survival of the species.

                                    Ilíon wrote:

                                    about the natural result of the latter

                                    Say what? The rule of law has as its result, the right to break contracts with impugnity? What are you smoking today?

                                    Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Both democrats and republicans are playing for the same team and it's not us. - Chris Austin

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                                    B Offline
                                    Brady Kelly
                                    wrote on last edited by
                                    #31

                                    Oakman wrote:

                                    Say what? The rule of law has as its result, the right to break contracts with impugnity? What are you smoking today? I think he means a society committed the letter of the law is bound to become a slave to loopholes.

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                                    • B Brady Kelly

                                      Oakman wrote:

                                      Say what? The rule of law has as its result, the right to break contracts with impugnity? What are you smoking today? I think he means a society committed the letter of the law is bound to become a slave to loopholes.

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                                      Oakman
                                      wrote on last edited by
                                      #32

                                      Brady Kelly wrote:

                                      I think he means a society committed the letter of the law is bound to become a slave to loopholes

                                      Perhaps. And perhaps he is right - but a society committed to the rule of men is nothing but loopholes. Certainly, if the king can forgive this debt and double that one with a wave of his scepter, we are even worse off than we are now. (It might be argued that Obama is trying to get that power written into law.) The problem with any democracy appears to be that sooner or later the sheeple decide to vote themselves benefits. Businesses decide that it would be really nice to be able to hide behind a law that says they don't have to pay what they owe or deliver what they have contracted for. Not surprisingly, the people who are affected by that law want the same advantage in their financial dealings. It appears now that GM will be able to break its union contracts and its agreements with its franchisers - some of whom having spent millions building up their role as middleman and emerge with no real scars and a fat reward paid from the taxes of the same people who they just screwed to the wall. Senior management will point out that they are sharing in everyone's pain because they have cut their multi-million dollars salaries by 1/3rd, and jet off the the Keys for vacation. Back in the day, they would have gone to jail.

                                      Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Both democrats and republicans are playing for the same team and it's not us. - Chris Austin

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                                      • O Oakman

                                        Brady Kelly wrote:

                                        I think he means a society committed the letter of the law is bound to become a slave to loopholes

                                        Perhaps. And perhaps he is right - but a society committed to the rule of men is nothing but loopholes. Certainly, if the king can forgive this debt and double that one with a wave of his scepter, we are even worse off than we are now. (It might be argued that Obama is trying to get that power written into law.) The problem with any democracy appears to be that sooner or later the sheeple decide to vote themselves benefits. Businesses decide that it would be really nice to be able to hide behind a law that says they don't have to pay what they owe or deliver what they have contracted for. Not surprisingly, the people who are affected by that law want the same advantage in their financial dealings. It appears now that GM will be able to break its union contracts and its agreements with its franchisers - some of whom having spent millions building up their role as middleman and emerge with no real scars and a fat reward paid from the taxes of the same people who they just screwed to the wall. Senior management will point out that they are sharing in everyone's pain because they have cut their multi-million dollars salaries by 1/3rd, and jet off the the Keys for vacation. Back in the day, they would have gone to jail.

                                        Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Both democrats and republicans are playing for the same team and it's not us. - Chris Austin

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                                        Rob Graham
                                        wrote on last edited by
                                        #33

                                        Oakman wrote:

                                        Certainly, if the king can forgive this debt and double that one with a wave of his scepter, we are even worse off than we are now.

                                        But he is wrong to suggest that religion provides a meaningful alternative. There is no difference between the king forgiving debt and the high priest doing so. There is a significant christian sect in my area founded on the premise that "God wants you to be rich". Proof that a fast talking preacher can craft any interpretation required out of the scriptures, making them hardly of any value as a moral standard. Kant provided better, if still flawed, basis with his concept of a categorical imperative. As soon as a society starts to permit the breaking of contracts for the short-term benefit of one party, contracts become worthless, and business descends into survival of the fastest or stealthiest thief: the Bernie Madoff principle.

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                                        • R Rob Graham

                                          Oakman wrote:

                                          Certainly, if the king can forgive this debt and double that one with a wave of his scepter, we are even worse off than we are now.

                                          But he is wrong to suggest that religion provides a meaningful alternative. There is no difference between the king forgiving debt and the high priest doing so. There is a significant christian sect in my area founded on the premise that "God wants you to be rich". Proof that a fast talking preacher can craft any interpretation required out of the scriptures, making them hardly of any value as a moral standard. Kant provided better, if still flawed, basis with his concept of a categorical imperative. As soon as a society starts to permit the breaking of contracts for the short-term benefit of one party, contracts become worthless, and business descends into survival of the fastest or stealthiest thief: the Bernie Madoff principle.

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                                          Oakman
                                          wrote on last edited by
                                          #34

                                          Rob Graham wrote:

                                          There is no difference between the king forgiving debt and the high priest doing so.

                                          The odds are always quite good that one of them is in the hip pocket of the other.

                                          Rob Graham wrote:

                                          There is a significant christian sect in my area founded on the premise that "God wants you to be rich".

                                          When Christianity was the religion of the slaves, it promised pie in the sky, by and by. I guess that message doesn't resonate as well when you are able to eat out three nights a week.

                                          Rob Graham wrote:

                                          As soon as a society starts to permit the breaking of contracts for the short-term benefit of one party, contracts become worthless, and business descends into survival of the fastest or stealthiest thief: the Bernie Madoff principle.

                                          And it really doesn't matter whether that society thinks it is a democracy, oligarchy, monarchy or theocracy. The Madoffs will be glad to wear whatever mask is required while they empty your safe.

                                          Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Both democrats and republicans are playing for the same team and it's not us. - Chris Austin

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