GM

[Rob Graham]

Since you like them, here's one for you: :thumbsdown:

[Chris Austin]

:thumbsup:

Sovereign ingredient for a happy marriage: Pay cash or do without. Interest charges not only eat up a household budget; awareness of debt eats up domestic felicity. --Lazarus Long Avoid the crowd. Do your own thinking independently. Be the chess player, not the chess piece. --Ralph Charell

[Oakman]

Christian Graus wrote:

That's what I call a 100% success rate.

:thumbsup::thumbsup:

Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Both democrats and republicans are playing for the same team and it's not us. - Chris Austin

[Oakman]

:thumbsup::thumbsup:

Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Both democrats and republicans are playing for the same team and it's not us. - Chris Austin

[Brady Kelly]

Oakman wrote:

I think you're confusing morality with religio

Ilion's opinion of our nature, and implicitly of his own, precludes morality without religion.

[Brady Kelly]

Oakman wrote:

Say what? The rule of law has as its result, the right to break contracts with impugnity? What are you smoking today? I think he means a society committed the letter of the law is bound to become a slave to loopholes.

[Oakman]

Brady Kelly wrote:

I think he means a society committed the letter of the law is bound to become a slave to loopholes

Perhaps. And perhaps he is right - but a society committed to the rule of men is nothing but loopholes. Certainly, if the king can forgive this debt and double that one with a wave of his scepter, we are even worse off than we are now. (It might be argued that Obama is trying to get that power written into law.) The problem with any democracy appears to be that sooner or later the sheeple decide to vote themselves benefits. Businesses decide that it would be really nice to be able to hide behind a law that says they don't have to pay what they owe or deliver what they have contracted for. Not surprisingly, the people who are affected by that law want the same advantage in their financial dealings. It appears now that GM will be able to break its union contracts and its agreements with its franchisers - some of whom having spent millions building up their role as middleman and emerge with no real scars and a fat reward paid from the taxes of the same people who they just screwed to the wall. Senior management will point out that they are sharing in everyone's pain because they have cut their multi-million dollars salaries by 1/3rd, and jet off the the Keys for vacation. Back in the day, they would have gone to jail.

Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Both democrats and republicans are playing for the same team and it's not us. - Chris Austin

[Rob Graham]

Oakman wrote:

Certainly, if the king can forgive this debt and double that one with a wave of his scepter, we are even worse off than we are now.

But he is wrong to suggest that religion provides a meaningful alternative. There is no difference between the king forgiving debt and the high priest doing so. There is a significant christian sect in my area founded on the premise that "God wants you to be rich". Proof that a fast talking preacher can craft any interpretation required out of the scriptures, making them hardly of any value as a moral standard. Kant provided better, if still flawed, basis with his concept of a categorical imperative. As soon as a society starts to permit the breaking of contracts for the short-term benefit of one party, contracts become worthless, and business descends into survival of the fastest or stealthiest thief: the Bernie Madoff principle.

[Oakman]

Rob Graham wrote:

There is no difference between the king forgiving debt and the high priest doing so.

The odds are always quite good that one of them is in the hip pocket of the other.

Rob Graham wrote:

There is a significant christian sect in my area founded on the premise that "God wants you to be rich".

When Christianity was the religion of the slaves, it promised pie in the sky, by and by. I guess that message doesn't resonate as well when you are able to eat out three nights a week.

Rob Graham wrote:

As soon as a society starts to permit the breaking of contracts for the short-term benefit of one party, contracts become worthless, and business descends into survival of the fastest or stealthiest thief: the Bernie Madoff principle.

And it really doesn't matter whether that society thinks it is a democracy, oligarchy, monarchy or theocracy. The Madoffs will be glad to wear whatever mask is required while they empty your safe.

Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Both democrats and republicans are playing for the same team and it's not us. - Chris Austin

[fred_]

:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

[Lost User]

Oakman wrote:

only Chevy, Buick, and Cadillac are going to come out the other side.

Thats too bad... Buick deserves to die as well. ;)

[Oakman]

Mike Mullikin wrote:

Buick deserves to die as we

Apparently, it's an extremely popular car overseas.

Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Both democrats and republicans are playing for the same team and it's not us. - Chris Austin

[Lost User]

Oakman wrote:

Apparently, it's an extremely popular car overseas.

Really?! Where?

[Oakman]

Mike Mullikin wrote:

Really?! Where?

That's all my friend mentioned. I assumed she meant Asia, but that may just be because I've read that in China they like big American cars.

Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Both democrats and republicans are playing for the same team and it's not us. - Chris Austin