GM or Chrysler or Ford
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Sounds like nothing more than a complex way of increasing taxation on gasoline.
Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.
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Sounds like nothing more than a complex way of increasing taxation on gasoline.
Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.
Stan Shannon wrote:
Sounds like nothing more than a complex way of increasing taxation on gasoline.
Its to make up for lost revenue of the gas tax. The most important fact about it is that it can be used to track your movements. Also its a stupid tax that no one should ever pay.
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Ed Gadziemski wrote:
The government specs and builds, with union help, the world's best most expensive fighter jets, submarines, ships and tanks.
FTFY So, is your business a Union shop?
Rob Graham wrote:
is your business a Union shop?
Naw, Arizona is "right to work". I don't like unions. I grew up in Michigan and while my family belonged to unions, I never did and never wanted to.
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Stan Shannon wrote:
Sounds like nothing more than a complex way of increasing taxation on gasoline.
Its to make up for lost revenue of the gas tax. The most important fact about it is that it can be used to track your movements. Also its a stupid tax that no one should ever pay.
How is that really any different from a gas tax? The more miles I drive, the more gas I use and it is certainly easy for my movement to be tracked without any device on my vehicle at all.
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How is that really any different from a gas tax? The more miles I drive, the more gas I use and it is certainly easy for my movement to be tracked without any device on my vehicle at all.
Stan Shannon wrote:
The more miles I drive, the more gas I use
But you just bought a more efficient car and the government can't trust you to increase your miles per week to offset their expected revenue loss - or, heaven forbid, you might buy a diesel that runs on used cooking oil and not pay them anything! :omg: The idea gained currency when gas prices dove for the bottom. All the states that had pre-spent all their windfall taxes from $4.00 @ gallan gas, suddenly needed to replace what they saw as "lost" revenue.
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Stan Shannon wrote:
The more miles I drive, the more gas I use
But you just bought a more efficient car and the government can't trust you to increase your miles per week to offset their expected revenue loss - or, heaven forbid, you might buy a diesel that runs on used cooking oil and not pay them anything! :omg: The idea gained currency when gas prices dove for the bottom. All the states that had pre-spent all their windfall taxes from $4.00 @ gallan gas, suddenly needed to replace what they saw as "lost" revenue.
Still, what difference should it make to me if I'm paying the tax when I buy gas or turning it over at some kind of toll booth? Either way, I can reduce the amount I pay by driving less.
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How is that really any different from a gas tax? The more miles I drive, the more gas I use and it is certainly easy for my movement to be tracked without any device on my vehicle at all.
Stan Shannon wrote:
it is certainly easy for my movement to be tracked without any device on my vehicle at all.
and how is that done? I've studiously avoided: OnStar (or its equivalent) as well as vehicles with a built in "black box". so ... ?
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Still, what difference should it make to me if I'm paying the tax when I buy gas or turning it over at some kind of toll booth? Either way, I can reduce the amount I pay by driving less.
Stan Shannon wrote:
Either way, I can reduce the amount I pay by driving less.
Your gas tax is a function of the price you pay for gas. Both the pretax price of the gas and the efficiency of your engine come into play as well as how far you drive. You certainly don't expect the average state bureacrat to handle three variables at once, do you?
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Stan Shannon wrote:
it is certainly easy for my movement to be tracked without any device on my vehicle at all.
and how is that done? I've studiously avoided: OnStar (or its equivalent) as well as vehicles with a built in "black box". so ... ?
Even assuming I pay in cash so that my credit card numbers can't be tracked, they could still put camaras in the service stations that don't already have them which could easily identify and track vehicles.
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Rob Graham wrote:
is your business a Union shop?
Naw, Arizona is "right to work". I don't like unions. I grew up in Michigan and while my family belonged to unions, I never did and never wanted to.
Ed Gadziemski wrote:
Naw, Arizona is "right to work".
I am amused by that phrase every time I hear it, since it has nothing to do with what it purports... (being really the right to hire and fire at will). I guess I missed the sarcasm in the original post... :-\
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Even assuming I pay in cash so that my credit card numbers can't be tracked, they could still put camaras in the service stations that don't already have them which could easily identify and track vehicles.
Stan Shannon wrote:
they could still put camaras in the service stations that don't already have them which could easily identify and track vehicles.
certainly. but with an embedded GPS they could stream to a db and literally track you real time. not something I'm willing to support, the ramifications are chilling.
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Stan Shannon wrote:
Either way, I can reduce the amount I pay by driving less.
Your gas tax is a function of the price you pay for gas. Both the pretax price of the gas and the efficiency of your engine come into play as well as how far you drive. You certainly don't expect the average state bureacrat to handle three variables at once, do you?
I suppose. Still, I still don't see this as any thing other than an unnecessarily complex consumption tax. Hell, wouldn't increasing taxes on tires be the same thing? The more miles you drive, the more you wear out your tires.
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Stan Shannon wrote:
they could still put camaras in the service stations that don't already have them which could easily identify and track vehicles.
certainly. but with an embedded GPS they could stream to a db and literally track you real time. not something I'm willing to support, the ramifications are chilling.
I don't support it either. but they hardly need GPS to gather information on your travel habits.
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Stan Shannon wrote:
they could still put camaras in the service stations that don't already have them which could easily identify and track vehicles.
certainly. but with an embedded GPS they could stream to a db and literally track you real time. not something I'm willing to support, the ramifications are chilling.
Mike Gaskey wrote:
certainly. but with an embedded GPS
I'd pray for the next big solar storm. Also, what a great target for hackers, and you thought Dish network was sport. BTW, GPS is normally a passive technology - it receives the satellite signals, but doesn't transmit, so you really have to add something active, like OnStar. That however would be both jam-able, and spoof-able. Should provide some smart kids with a good under-the-table income... Seems like a heck of a complicated replacement for just reading the odometer at sale/trade-in.
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Ed Gadziemski wrote:
Naw, Arizona is "right to work".
I am amused by that phrase every time I hear it, since it has nothing to do with what it purports... (being really the right to hire and fire at will). I guess I missed the sarcasm in the original post... :-\
Rob Graham wrote:
I guess I missed the sarcasm in the original post... Shucks
He got me too. But I am sure I can think of an excuse or something like that.
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Mike Gaskey wrote:
certainly. but with an embedded GPS
I'd pray for the next big solar storm. Also, what a great target for hackers, and you thought Dish network was sport. BTW, GPS is normally a passive technology - it receives the satellite signals, but doesn't transmit, so you really have to add something active, like OnStar. That however would be both jam-able, and spoof-able. Should provide some smart kids with a good under-the-table income... Seems like a heck of a complicated replacement for just reading the odometer at sale/trade-in.
Trackers are self-spoofing: how about a fully laden construction plant carrier careering across the Yorkshire Moors at over 100mph? (The best of several malfunctions.)
Rob Graham wrote:
just reading the odometer at sale/trade-in.
You could log up 10 years' back taxes. :)
Bob Emmett
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Mike Gaskey wrote:
certainly. but with an embedded GPS
I'd pray for the next big solar storm. Also, what a great target for hackers, and you thought Dish network was sport. BTW, GPS is normally a passive technology - it receives the satellite signals, but doesn't transmit, so you really have to add something active, like OnStar. That however would be both jam-able, and spoof-able. Should provide some smart kids with a good under-the-table income... Seems like a heck of a complicated replacement for just reading the odometer at sale/trade-in.
Rob Graham wrote:
Seems like a heck of a complicated replacement for just reading the odometer at sale/trade-in.
Very true - and would encourage folks to either drive less, trade their cars in before the tax grew inordinate, or push the car off a bridge.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Both democrats and republicans are playing for the same team and it's not us. - Chris Austin
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Trackers are self-spoofing: how about a fully laden construction plant carrier careering across the Yorkshire Moors at over 100mph? (The best of several malfunctions.)
Rob Graham wrote:
just reading the odometer at sale/trade-in.
You could log up 10 years' back taxes. :)
Bob Emmett
Bob Emmett wrote:
ou could log up 10 years' back taxes. Smile
And, like our new Treasury Secretary, claim not to owe 4 of them due to the statute of limitations... :) (Actually, since annual auto inspections, or at least tag renewals are required in most of the US, and provide an opportunity for tax collection already, adding the mileage tax to this annual requirement would be trivial).
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Rob Graham wrote:
Seems like a heck of a complicated replacement for just reading the odometer at sale/trade-in.
Very true - and would encourage folks to either drive less, trade their cars in before the tax grew inordinate, or push the car off a bridge.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Both democrats and republicans are playing for the same team and it's not us. - Chris Austin
I'm sure cleaver car dealers would soon figure out how to roll your tax into the note on your new vehicle. Then you could be upside-down to Uncle too.
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I'm sure cleaver car dealers would soon figure out how to roll your tax into the note on your new vehicle. Then you could be upside-down to Uncle too.
Rob Graham wrote:
Then you could be upside-down to Uncle too.
Most wage-earners are for the first 5 months anyway. Shortly, I suspect that'll be 6 or 7 months. . .
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Both democrats and republicans are playing for the same team and it's not us. - Chris Austin