What are your thoughts on VS 2005, 2008 and the coming VS 2010? What's good, bad? Discuss.
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What got fixed, what should have been fixed? What's great and what's a disaster? What's your favorite version of VS? Honestly curious to know -- will be visiting MSFT last week and would like to take along some feedback. Witticisms welcomed but thoughtful answers are more helpful. thanks jeff
C++/MFC/COM/C/not much else. VS2008 is working great for me at work, but it's on an evaluation "branch" (our main branch is still on VS2003).
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What got fixed, what should have been fixed? What's great and what's a disaster? What's your favorite version of VS? Honestly curious to know -- will be visiting MSFT last week and would like to take along some feedback. Witticisms welcomed but thoughtful answers are more helpful. thanks jeff
We've not finished exploring vs 2008 and they are talking abt 2010. I beleive its just a remodelling/repackaging of what we already have in 08. ________________________________________________________________________________________ Cheap Affordable Web Hosting & Design | Best PHP Linux Hosting | ASP.NET Windows Hosting
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We've not finished exploring vs 2008 and they are talking abt 2010. I beleive its just a remodelling/repackaging of what we already have in 08. ________________________________________________________________________________________ Cheap Affordable Web Hosting & Design | Best PHP Linux Hosting | ASP.NET Windows Hosting
mbaocha wrote:
We've not finished exploring vs 2008
At my location we have not started using VS2008 for any real development. I have used it for a couple tiny 200 line Qt projects.
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Jeff Hadfield wrote:
great and what's a disaster
My comments regard VS2008. I second Christian. The WPF designer is too buggy. I especially like the crashing with the IDE just shutting down without any warning at all. I am not really impressed the IDE recompiling the program all the time whether you change anything or not. The help system is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too slow and there are way too many "information not found" pages showing up. Google is a better help system than what comes with the IDE. But that should not come as a real surprise.
Wes Aday wrote:
I am not really impressed the IDE recompiling the program all the time whether you change anything or not.
Yeah, seconded. When dealing with a dozen or projects, it becomes very tedious very quickly.
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What got fixed, what should have been fixed? What's great and what's a disaster? What's your favorite version of VS? Honestly curious to know -- will be visiting MSFT last week and would like to take along some feedback. Witticisms welcomed but thoughtful answers are more helpful. thanks jeff
Since VS6, F1 Help has progressively gotten worse. I kept forgetting this until I put a piece of duct tape on the F1 key to remind me never to hit it in VS200X. Between this and the WPF-based editor that will be in VS2010, I'm bracing for the worst. As others have mentioned, it's hard to understand how a QA team could fail to catch some of the bugs in VS200X releases. Ask MSFT how many QA people they have on this product; that would be interesting.
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Context: 2008 / C# / ASP.NET / Web Application My biggest complaint is the completely ridiculous wait time when hitting F5 to debug. I have two projects, one in 2005, one in 2008. They're almost identical in number of .aspx pages (~90) and number of user controls (~60). In both scenarios, the actual compilation is fast, and the web browser pops up in a couple of seconds. What happens next is the difference between a painful experience and a workable one. In 2005, it takes a few seconds for the JIT compilation, and then the site is up and available for debugging. In 2008, however, it runs around a minute or so, perhaps longer. Doesn't seem to matter how much or how little code I change, debugging in 2008 is a horrible experience because I spend most of my time staring at the screen instead of working. Because of this, I regret doing the new project in 2008 and look forward to working in 2005. Which wouldn't be so bad if I wasn't paying serious money for the pleasure. I second a comment above that this product shows serious signs of apathy. With the death of Borland ages ago as a serious bit of compiler competition and no one else to provide a C#/.NET development environment to keep them honest, MS doesn't seem to be terribly concerned about quality. Because of this, I'll update to 2010 only at gunpoint.
Christopher Duncan wrote:
I'll update to 2010 only at gunpoint.
Somewhere, in a Microsoft lab, in the middle of the desert, in an underground building, on a floor only reachable by facial recognition and rental scan, this comment was logged on a server, automatically cross-referenced with your name and global position, where your "case" will be assigned to a special Microsoft Public Relations team, in charge of making problems like you, "see the light". And before you can say "Microsoft .NET 5.0", you'll be singing like a fanboy in the Microsoft Choir, and you'll have their logo tattooed on the back of your head and a GUID on you buttocks. Oh yes ... you will regrete the day you said something negitive against them ... Because they are great. Everything they do is wonderful! I couldn't be happier with WPF, WCF and WWF. My life is like gold because of Microsoft technologies. All hail the MS, because they speak truth! Happiness is a Microsoft .NET compiler and a ton of XAML on my screen! Signed, 235B38BC-E7B2-48d7-A9CF-24E7C8E50875 :rolleyes:
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Christopher Duncan wrote:
I'll update to 2010 only at gunpoint.
Somewhere, in a Microsoft lab, in the middle of the desert, in an underground building, on a floor only reachable by facial recognition and rental scan, this comment was logged on a server, automatically cross-referenced with your name and global position, where your "case" will be assigned to a special Microsoft Public Relations team, in charge of making problems like you, "see the light". And before you can say "Microsoft .NET 5.0", you'll be singing like a fanboy in the Microsoft Choir, and you'll have their logo tattooed on the back of your head and a GUID on you buttocks. Oh yes ... you will regrete the day you said something negitive against them ... Because they are great. Everything they do is wonderful! I couldn't be happier with WPF, WCF and WWF. My life is like gold because of Microsoft technologies. All hail the MS, because they speak truth! Happiness is a Microsoft .NET compiler and a ton of XAML on my screen! Signed, 235B38BC-E7B2-48d7-A9CF-24E7C8E50875 :rolleyes:
Douglas Troy wrote:
Signed, 235B38BC-E7B2-48d7-A9CF-24E7C8E50875
Hey, did you just moon me?
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Douglas Troy wrote:
Signed, 235B38BC-E7B2-48d7-A9CF-24E7C8E50875
Hey, did you just moon me?
:laugh:
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Anna-Jayne Metcalfe wrote:
new threading support (Anthony William's presentation at the ACCU COnference was a great introduction to the subject) or futures will make it in. If they don't that will be a huge missed opportunity.
You can still use Boost's threading library - that's close enough to C++0x (no surprise, given Anthony's got significant responsibility for it) and makes concurrency almost pleasant to use (not as nice as in some[^] languages[^], though).
Anna-Jayne Metcalfe wrote:
VS2010 has a new WPF based code editor. I'm expecting it to be very pretty, but slow and unstable
The beta was pretty enough, not slow and not unstable (forgive the double negative - the Staropramen must be getting to me).
Stuart Dootson wrote:
not as nice as in some[^]
Just out of curiosity are you running erlang in production? We've started testing it vs greenlets and stackless. Greenlets suck but I've been surprised how well stackless is standing up in the little test I've ran so far. We are planning or scaling to a larger cluster to run some more tests but there isn't enough time right now.
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What got fixed, what should have been fixed? What's great and what's a disaster? What's your favorite version of VS? Honestly curious to know -- will be visiting MSFT last week and would like to take along some feedback. Witticisms welcomed but thoughtful answers are more helpful. thanks jeff
I'm using VS 2008 SP1, but only when I do WinForms. If I don't need the designer, I don't need VS. What I don't like about it is the real-time compiling/syntax error marking. I was able to turn part of it off, but I want it off completely.
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Stuart Dootson wrote:
not as nice as in some[^]
Just out of curiosity are you running erlang in production? We've started testing it vs greenlets and stackless. Greenlets suck but I've been surprised how well stackless is standing up in the little test I've ran so far. We are planning or scaling to a larger cluster to run some more tests but there isn't enough time right now.
No - but it's had lots of use in highly parallel, high reliability systems[^]. The embedded systems I work on (at least for part of my time!) have very different requirements, which mean we use more static languages like Ada - we don't even use dynamic memory allocation! Another interesting benchmark is yaws (the erlang web server) versus Apache[^] - yes, yaws is running 80,000 parallel connections, each with an Erlang process.
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No - but it's had lots of use in highly parallel, high reliability systems[^]. The embedded systems I work on (at least for part of my time!) have very different requirements, which mean we use more static languages like Ada - we don't even use dynamic memory allocation! Another interesting benchmark is yaws (the erlang web server) versus Apache[^] - yes, yaws is running 80,000 parallel connections, each with an Erlang process.
hah....just realized I called it erlanf..... I am off my game today.
Stuart Dootson wrote:
No - but it's had lots of use in highly parallel, high reliability systems[^].
It is impressive.
Stuart Dootson wrote:
The embedded systems I work on (at least for part of my time!) have very different requirements, which mean we use more static languages like Ada - we don't even use dynamic memory allocation!
Been there, it's a whole different mentality to more common enterprise development.
Stuart Dootson wrote:
Another interesting benchmark is yaws (the erlang web server) versus Apache[^] - yes, yaws is running 80,000 parallel connections, each with an Erlang process.
Goodness! This is the first time I've heard of yaws so I'll check it out.
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What got fixed, what should have been fixed? What's great and what's a disaster? What's your favorite version of VS? Honestly curious to know -- will be visiting MSFT last week and would like to take along some feedback. Witticisms welcomed but thoughtful answers are more helpful. thanks jeff
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What got fixed, what should have been fixed? What's great and what's a disaster? What's your favorite version of VS? Honestly curious to know -- will be visiting MSFT last week and would like to take along some feedback. Witticisms welcomed but thoughtful answers are more helpful. thanks jeff
The help system should be on a separate thread. Please. The number of times I have pressed F1 accidentally and then sat there for ages while the help system loads, unable to do anything. Both 2005 and 2008 (although 2008 seems worse) fail to build with out of memory errors - it seems when there are a large number of projects / resources but it's difficult to pin down when you're doing 'real ' development rather than beta testing for MS! The Gui views often take a long time to (re)draw themselves and sometimes fail due to memory errors - which seem to go away if you get the right keypresses... e.g. Show code of Winform. Press F7 to show the gui. Get memory error Close tab (so back to the code) Press F7 to show the Gui. SOMETIMES it will work, sometimes it fails. Assume it fails: Close the tab (so back to the code) Right-click on solution explorer and select 'View Designer' USUALY it now works. (If it doesn't it's restart VS time) So - how come viewing the same GUI using two different options has a different effect? This happens at least three or four times (and sometimes many, many more) every day with our solution which contains 21 projects.
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What got fixed, what should have been fixed? What's great and what's a disaster? What's your favorite version of VS? Honestly curious to know -- will be visiting MSFT last week and would like to take along some feedback. Witticisms welcomed but thoughtful answers are more helpful. thanks jeff
Let us hope they don't shoot the messenger :) I do have a query though - what are your expectations with handing feedback to the VS team? They are probably not far from release, can much be changed at this point?
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What got fixed, what should have been fixed? What's great and what's a disaster? What's your favorite version of VS? Honestly curious to know -- will be visiting MSFT last week and would like to take along some feedback. Witticisms welcomed but thoughtful answers are more helpful. thanks jeff
VS 2008 is my favorite. But I must admit it sucked before service pack 1. It was almost unusable before they fixed the speed issues. Also, I do 90% ASP.Net and C#. The javascript debugging / object browser is light years ahead of what we had to work with in VS 2003. Also, I haven't done any WPF or Silverlight (other than playing around so I can't comment on that). VS 2005 was also very good but it lacked the javascript support in 2008. My favorite features added to 2005 / 2008 are: Search entire solution and do find replace (2003 only did a project). Add using statements by right clicking then resolve. Raw view of data is extremely useful when debugging. "Find all references" my favorite feature. The server viewer / query tool supports my as400 databases. So I can query db2 data without making a bunch of linked servers in SQL Server. This is very useful for me. Dragging stored procedures to the dbml designer and getting an method created for me via LINQ is such a huge time saver for small projects. It is just wonderful.
I didn't get any requirements for the signature
modified on Wednesday, April 29, 2009 11:45 PM
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Context: 2008 / C# / ASP.NET / Web Application My biggest complaint is the completely ridiculous wait time when hitting F5 to debug. I have two projects, one in 2005, one in 2008. They're almost identical in number of .aspx pages (~90) and number of user controls (~60). In both scenarios, the actual compilation is fast, and the web browser pops up in a couple of seconds. What happens next is the difference between a painful experience and a workable one. In 2005, it takes a few seconds for the JIT compilation, and then the site is up and available for debugging. In 2008, however, it runs around a minute or so, perhaps longer. Doesn't seem to matter how much or how little code I change, debugging in 2008 is a horrible experience because I spend most of my time staring at the screen instead of working. Because of this, I regret doing the new project in 2008 and look forward to working in 2005. Which wouldn't be so bad if I wasn't paying serious money for the pleasure. I second a comment above that this product shows serious signs of apathy. With the death of Borland ages ago as a serious bit of compiler competition and no one else to provide a C#/.NET development environment to keep them honest, MS doesn't seem to be terribly concerned about quality. Because of this, I'll update to 2010 only at gunpoint.
Wow. A minute? My web applications are not quite that big but that is just insane. I am using Vista Business with a 3.0Gzh dual core with 3 gigs of ram and pressing F5 does not take long at all. Do you use IIS for you project or the temporary web server thingy? I often have 3 or 4 instances of Visual Studio open and I can debug with no issues. Maybe you have some large fragmented files in your project or something.
I didn't get any requirements for the signature
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What got fixed, what should have been fixed? What's great and what's a disaster? What's your favorite version of VS? Honestly curious to know -- will be visiting MSFT last week and would like to take along some feedback. Witticisms welcomed but thoughtful answers are more helpful. thanks jeff
I mostly code C#/Winforms and these are my main grievances: 1. Why the hell does the system preform a full recompile on minor changes to one DLL? Items preceding it in the compile chain should not recompile. 2. I hate clicking on a form item to select it which the IDE takes as a double click and starts dealing with the control's load/click/etc method. 3. For us international developers, and I mean right to left and script languages (Arabic, Hebrew, Thai and most probably others I don't know about) are annoyed at the way the display of "Eastern" scripts went 2 steps back since VS2003. Example. I'll type Hello World in Arabic, it will type the words left to right in visual order, but the words are arranged logically, so, hello world comes out -> world, hello. Its correct to read, but the visually wrong. That's the best I can do to explain it without typing Arabic. 4. Everybody and their pet gerbil has a multi-core computer with boatloads of RAM, why won't VS2010 be a 64 bit IDE? If they're that worried about breaking backwards compatibility they could have released multiple versions, as is they've done that with Vista and they're planning on doing that with Weven. I'd rather have VS 2010 x64 and one that works to utilize my computer's multiple-cores to compile rather than have Weven Lollipop edition for my MS Mobile Device.
If the post was helpful, please vote! Current activities: Book: Foundation's Edge by Isaac Asimov Project: Hospital Automation, final stage Learning: Image analysis, LINQ Now and forever, defiant to the end. What is Multiple Sclerosis[^]?
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hah....just realized I called it erlanf..... I am off my game today.
Stuart Dootson wrote:
No - but it's had lots of use in highly parallel, high reliability systems[^].
It is impressive.
Stuart Dootson wrote:
The embedded systems I work on (at least for part of my time!) have very different requirements, which mean we use more static languages like Ada - we don't even use dynamic memory allocation!
Been there, it's a whole different mentality to more common enterprise development.
Stuart Dootson wrote:
Another interesting benchmark is yaws (the erlang web server) versus Apache[^] - yes, yaws is running 80,000 parallel connections, each with an Erlang process.
Goodness! This is the first time I've heard of yaws so I'll check it out.
Chris Austin wrote:
It is impressive. Goodness! This is the first time I've heard of yaws so I'll check it out.
IIRC, ALL Sony Ericcsson switches are actually Soft-Switches and are Erlang based. Their concurrency, parallelism, reliability and stability is nothing short of jaw dropping. I had printed stats on the stuff that I'm not sure of their physical location now since I don't use them now (no longer in the communication's industry). We're talking to the order of 100,000,000 - 1,000,000,000 simultaneous, concurrent threads/processes (calls in this case) with nothing being dropped depending on the added help of the switch processing power.
If the post was helpful, please vote! Current activities: Book: Foundation's Edge by Isaac Asimov Project: Hospital Automation, final stage Learning: Image analysis, LINQ Now and forever, defiant to the end. What is Multiple Sclerosis[^]?
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Christopher Duncan wrote:
I'll update to 2010 only at gunpoint.
Somewhere, in a Microsoft lab, in the middle of the desert, in an underground building, on a floor only reachable by facial recognition and rental scan, this comment was logged on a server, automatically cross-referenced with your name and global position, where your "case" will be assigned to a special Microsoft Public Relations team, in charge of making problems like you, "see the light". And before you can say "Microsoft .NET 5.0", you'll be singing like a fanboy in the Microsoft Choir, and you'll have their logo tattooed on the back of your head and a GUID on you buttocks. Oh yes ... you will regrete the day you said something negitive against them ... Because they are great. Everything they do is wonderful! I couldn't be happier with WPF, WCF and WWF. My life is like gold because of Microsoft technologies. All hail the MS, because they speak truth! Happiness is a Microsoft .NET compiler and a ton of XAML on my screen! Signed, 235B38BC-E7B2-48d7-A9CF-24E7C8E50875 :rolleyes:
Douglas Troy wrote:
facial recognition and rental scan
I've never heard of that one! :omg: But I really feel with your post. It is essentially, less the details that I didn't know about, how I feel and I have become completely fed up with MS and their speed crap shoveling.
If the post was helpful, please vote! Current activities: Book: Foundation's Edge by Isaac Asimov Project: Hospital Automation, final stage Learning: Image analysis, LINQ Now and forever, defiant to the end. What is Multiple Sclerosis[^]?