Iraq to Accept Weapons Inspectors
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http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A25855-2002Sep16.html[^] I thought this might happen. I also predict that Saddam will start messing with inspectors again once the "war on Iraq" campaign has lost some steam. Anyone want to place bets on when Saddam starts messing with inspectors again? ------------------------------------------ "Isn't it funny how people say they'll never grow up to be their parents, then one day they look in the mirror and they're moving aircraft carriers into the Gulf region?" - The Onion
Put me down for Tuesday...
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http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A25855-2002Sep16.html[^] I thought this might happen. I also predict that Saddam will start messing with inspectors again once the "war on Iraq" campaign has lost some steam. Anyone want to place bets on when Saddam starts messing with inspectors again? ------------------------------------------ "Isn't it funny how people say they'll never grow up to be their parents, then one day they look in the mirror and they're moving aircraft carriers into the Gulf region?" - The Onion
Of course he's said that. Now what will happen next ? Either Saddam will play his games, or an inspector will do the equivelant of slipping drugs in the suspects pocket. The goal is not inspections, it's Saddam out. Saddam knows it, and he's playing the game, but there is no way this will not end up in a shooting war. Christian Hey, at least Logo had, at it's inception, a mechanical turtle. VB has always lacked even that... - Shog9 04-09-2002 During last 10 years, with invention of VB and similar programming environments, every ill-educated moron became able to develop software. - Alex E. - 12-Sept-2002
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http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A25855-2002Sep16.html[^] I thought this might happen. I also predict that Saddam will start messing with inspectors again once the "war on Iraq" campaign has lost some steam. Anyone want to place bets on when Saddam starts messing with inspectors again? ------------------------------------------ "Isn't it funny how people say they'll never grow up to be their parents, then one day they look in the mirror and they're moving aircraft carriers into the Gulf region?" - The Onion
This was just the next logical step. This basically takes all of the U.N. incentive out of the picture and brings it back to a U.S. vs. Iraq question. Is it a win? It is a long term win? Short term win? Well, that all depends on your point of view and if you consider Saddam to really be a threat. Tim Smith "Programmers are always surrounded by complexity; we can not avoid it... If our basic tool, the language in which we design and code our programs, is also complicated, the language itself becomes part of the problem rather that part of the solution." Hoare - 1980 ACM Turing Award Lecture
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http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A25855-2002Sep16.html[^] I thought this might happen. I also predict that Saddam will start messing with inspectors again once the "war on Iraq" campaign has lost some steam. Anyone want to place bets on when Saddam starts messing with inspectors again? ------------------------------------------ "Isn't it funny how people say they'll never grow up to be their parents, then one day they look in the mirror and they're moving aircraft carriers into the Gulf region?" - The Onion
Delay, delay. Elections are coming up! :)
-Domenic Denicola- [CPUA 0x1337] MadHamster Creations "I was born human. But this was an accident of fate - a condition merely of time and place. I believe it's something we have the power to change..."
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Delay, delay. Elections are coming up! :)
-Domenic Denicola- [CPUA 0x1337] MadHamster Creations "I was born human. But this was an accident of fate - a condition merely of time and place. I believe it's something we have the power to change..."
Delay, delay. Elections are coming up! You mean the US government is having Saddam allow inspectors so that it could delay the confrontation until after elections? :confused: ------------------------------------------ "Isn't it funny how people say they'll never grow up to be their parents, then one day they look in the mirror and they're moving aircraft carriers into the Gulf region?" - The Onion
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Delay, delay. Elections are coming up! You mean the US government is having Saddam allow inspectors so that it could delay the confrontation until after elections? :confused: ------------------------------------------ "Isn't it funny how people say they'll never grow up to be their parents, then one day they look in the mirror and they're moving aircraft carriers into the Gulf region?" - The Onion
No, I mean in the U.S. elections are coming up, so if Iraq delays enough, it is likely Bush will lose all congressional support. He and his party are not in the best position right now because of what they've done to the economy, and they need a war to get the patriotism running again and support for their cause higher. But if Iraq delays the war until after elections, causing Bush to lose congressional support, and pacifies the U.N. (at least temporairily), Bush is gonna have a hard time getting war going without the U.N. or Congress backing him up. Of course, if WMDs are actually found, then I would assume war is inevitable, and in my opinion would then be desirable; right now I am hesitant because I don't feel that we have much evidence. Rather an obvious move for Iraq, yet pretty effective.
-Domenic Denicola- [CPUA 0x1337] MadHamster Creations "I was born human. But this was an accident of fate - a condition merely of time and place. I believe it's something we have the power to change..."
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Delay, delay. Elections are coming up! You mean the US government is having Saddam allow inspectors so that it could delay the confrontation until after elections? :confused: ------------------------------------------ "Isn't it funny how people say they'll never grow up to be their parents, then one day they look in the mirror and they're moving aircraft carriers into the Gulf region?" - The Onion
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No, I mean in the U.S. elections are coming up, so if Iraq delays enough, it is likely Bush will lose all congressional support. He and his party are not in the best position right now because of what they've done to the economy, and they need a war to get the patriotism running again and support for their cause higher. But if Iraq delays the war until after elections, causing Bush to lose congressional support, and pacifies the U.N. (at least temporairily), Bush is gonna have a hard time getting war going without the U.N. or Congress backing him up. Of course, if WMDs are actually found, then I would assume war is inevitable, and in my opinion would then be desirable; right now I am hesitant because I don't feel that we have much evidence. Rather an obvious move for Iraq, yet pretty effective.
-Domenic Denicola- [CPUA 0x1337] MadHamster Creations "I was born human. But this was an accident of fate - a condition merely of time and place. I believe it's something we have the power to change..."
Domenic [Geekn] wrote: He and his party are not in the best position right now because of what they've done to the economy Huh? How was the current US economy caused by Bush and the Republicans? It started under Clinton but was more a natural economic reaction to the dot com bust than anything ANY president or congress did. The delay in recovery is likely due to increased costs after 9/11.
Mike Mullikin :beer: You can't really dust for vomit. Nigel Tufnel - Spinal Tap
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Domenic [Geekn] wrote: He and his party are not in the best position right now because of what they've done to the economy Huh? How was the current US economy caused by Bush and the Republicans? It started under Clinton but was more a natural economic reaction to the dot com bust than anything ANY president or congress did. The delay in recovery is likely due to increased costs after 9/11.
Mike Mullikin :beer: You can't really dust for vomit. Nigel Tufnel - Spinal Tap
[ in response to the economic thread ] Fortunatelly for clinton, the economy was good, even great, when he was in office; when W. came into power, all shit came flying around; I think that the current U.S. administration did not see that there were problems and were not able to forsee such a rapid decline of the economy. 911 was not that important to the economic problems, such an event ( as awfull as it was ) is too ponctual ( don't know if it's the right word ) to influence the statistical previsions and history of all the different trading indices around the world. Look at the different U.S. stock exchanges ( nasdaq S&P, ... ) they all show that after a few days of bad trading and indecisions after 911, all were going strong and were doing great until january 2002, just about when all major fuck-up of large U.S. companies were made public, then hell broke loose until this summer when things started going up again. 911 as an event in the economic world is like having a major snow storm in LA in july, it's the end of the world, people got scared and everything is close for a day or two, and then normal life is back, and business as usual! Max. P.S. look at the year chart of www.nasdaq.com
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Domenic [Geekn] wrote: He and his party are not in the best position right now because of what they've done to the economy Huh? How was the current US economy caused by Bush and the Republicans? It started under Clinton but was more a natural economic reaction to the dot com bust than anything ANY president or congress did. The delay in recovery is likely due to increased costs after 9/11.
Mike Mullikin :beer: You can't really dust for vomit. Nigel Tufnel - Spinal Tap
That may be correct, but what really matters is what the public thinks... at least from what I've seen and heard, the public thinks that it's the Bush administration's fault, and that's where cause and effect kick in.
-Domenic Denicola- [CPUA 0x1337] MadHamster Creations "I was born human. But this was an accident of fate - a condition merely of time and place. I believe it's something we have the power to change..."
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[ in response to the economic thread ] Fortunatelly for clinton, the economy was good, even great, when he was in office; when W. came into power, all shit came flying around; I think that the current U.S. administration did not see that there were problems and were not able to forsee such a rapid decline of the economy. 911 was not that important to the economic problems, such an event ( as awfull as it was ) is too ponctual ( don't know if it's the right word ) to influence the statistical previsions and history of all the different trading indices around the world. Look at the different U.S. stock exchanges ( nasdaq S&P, ... ) they all show that after a few days of bad trading and indecisions after 911, all were going strong and were doing great until january 2002, just about when all major fuck-up of large U.S. companies were made public, then hell broke loose until this summer when things started going up again. 911 as an event in the economic world is like having a major snow storm in LA in july, it's the end of the world, people got scared and everything is close for a day or two, and then normal life is back, and business as usual! Max. P.S. look at the year chart of www.nasdaq.com
I don't consider the stock markets to be an accurate indicator of the US economy. You have to look a lot deeper at employment, GDP, government spending, new construction, etc... Maximilien wrote: Fortunatelly for clinton, the economy was good, even great, when he was in office; when W. came into power, all sh*t came flying around; I think that the current U.S. administration did not see that there were problems and were not able to forsee such a rapid decline of the economy. The markets and the economy slid while Clinton was still in office. The current administration (nor any administration) could have done anything to stop it. The best any presidential administration can do is soften the ups and downs with little tweaks. The US economy is like a very big train, it moves at it's own pace neither accelerating nor decelerating quickly. It pretty much follows the tracks regardless of what the engineer may want.
Mike Mullikin :beer: You can't really dust for vomit. Nigel Tufnel - Spinal Tap
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That may be correct, but what really matters is what the public thinks... at least from what I've seen and heard, the public thinks that it's the Bush administration's fault, and that's where cause and effect kick in.
-Domenic Denicola- [CPUA 0x1337] MadHamster Creations "I was born human. But this was an accident of fate - a condition merely of time and place. I believe it's something we have the power to change..."
What polls are you reading? I've never seen anything suggesting that.
Jason Henderson
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"If you are going through hell, keep going." - Sir Winston Churchill -
What polls are you reading? I've never seen anything suggesting that.
Jason Henderson
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"If you are going through hell, keep going." - Sir Winston ChurchillNo polls, I'm afraid, just general sentiment from the people around me. Mainly this is schoolmates, my parents, and their parents. So I guess perhaps I'm not really qualified...
-Domenic Denicola- [CPUA 0x1337] MadHamster Creations "I was born human. But this was an accident of fate - a condition merely of time and place. I believe it's something we have the power to change..."
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http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A25855-2002Sep16.html[^] I thought this might happen. I also predict that Saddam will start messing with inspectors again once the "war on Iraq" campaign has lost some steam. Anyone want to place bets on when Saddam starts messing with inspectors again? ------------------------------------------ "Isn't it funny how people say they'll never grow up to be their parents, then one day they look in the mirror and they're moving aircraft carriers into the Gulf region?" - The Onion
Personaly I see this welcoming of inspectors as the 'welcome from the spider to the fly'. Look out for hostages...
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Of course he's said that. Now what will happen next ? Either Saddam will play his games, or an inspector will do the equivelant of slipping drugs in the suspects pocket. The goal is not inspections, it's Saddam out. Saddam knows it, and he's playing the game, but there is no way this will not end up in a shooting war. Christian Hey, at least Logo had, at it's inception, a mechanical turtle. VB has always lacked even that... - Shog9 04-09-2002 During last 10 years, with invention of VB and similar programming environments, every ill-educated moron became able to develop software. - Alex E. - 12-Sept-2002
I have to agree with you. Bush appears hell-bent on war. I wonder who the CIA has in mind as his replacement? There doesn't seem to be much talk about what happens after Saddam is captured or killed. Will they put him in a cell with Noriega (capture by Bush Snr)? Who will replace him? Will the fundamentalists take over (because Saddam isn't a fundamentalist)? I think it will take awhile before a shooting war develops, simply because Bush has not built up the necessary ground forces. I doubt this operation can be achieved with SpecialOps alone (basically another Panama) because there is too much resentment and bitterness amongst the people of Iraq after ten years of sanctions and embargo with no end in sight. I think a ten year embargo is too long; it is worse than anything we inflicted on Japan or Germany. We need to do something to establish something akin to normal diplomatic and commerce relationships. After all, if we can trade with communist china, surely we can deal with Iraq? Only change is constant
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I don't consider the stock markets to be an accurate indicator of the US economy. You have to look a lot deeper at employment, GDP, government spending, new construction, etc... Maximilien wrote: Fortunatelly for clinton, the economy was good, even great, when he was in office; when W. came into power, all sh*t came flying around; I think that the current U.S. administration did not see that there were problems and were not able to forsee such a rapid decline of the economy. The markets and the economy slid while Clinton was still in office. The current administration (nor any administration) could have done anything to stop it. The best any presidential administration can do is soften the ups and downs with little tweaks. The US economy is like a very big train, it moves at it's own pace neither accelerating nor decelerating quickly. It pretty much follows the tracks regardless of what the engineer may want.
Mike Mullikin :beer: You can't really dust for vomit. Nigel Tufnel - Spinal Tap
Clinton inherited a healthy economy from his predecessor, and his admin's errors over 8 years created the current malaise. This gargantuan economy doesn't respond quickly (as the Fed should have figured out by now), and the choices of many years past are only now showing their fruits. It will take time for the worm to turn again, but the signs - as you correctly point out - are not those on the surface, but the subtle indicators that lie deep in the heart of the machine. The fundamentals are strong, but the public confidence has eroded causing a lag in the growth that should be expected. Once the Great Unwashed masses figure out that all is not about to fall apart, there will be a resurgence of real growth, not the fictitious appearance of economic health that the dot.com speculative binge represented.
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I have to agree with you. Bush appears hell-bent on war. I wonder who the CIA has in mind as his replacement? There doesn't seem to be much talk about what happens after Saddam is captured or killed. Will they put him in a cell with Noriega (capture by Bush Snr)? Who will replace him? Will the fundamentalists take over (because Saddam isn't a fundamentalist)? I think it will take awhile before a shooting war develops, simply because Bush has not built up the necessary ground forces. I doubt this operation can be achieved with SpecialOps alone (basically another Panama) because there is too much resentment and bitterness amongst the people of Iraq after ten years of sanctions and embargo with no end in sight. I think a ten year embargo is too long; it is worse than anything we inflicted on Japan or Germany. We need to do something to establish something akin to normal diplomatic and commerce relationships. After all, if we can trade with communist china, surely we can deal with Iraq? Only change is constant
I think a ten year embargo is too long; it is worse than anything we inflicted on Japan or Germany. It's to bad that Saddam is more interested in pursuing his own goals than helping his people. Don't forget his role in this. We need to do something to establish something akin to normal diplomatic and commerce relationships. So that everyone can accuse the US of ignoring the crimes of the world's worst dictators for oil -- which will fall neatly in their preconceived notions about the US? Wonderful. After all, if we can trade with communist china, surely we can deal with Iraq? I think the US sees China as being un-changable. And, I'd like to think we can resist the spread of nuclear weapons into the most volatile region in the world. Oh well. I guess we can always roll over and accept the decates of any piss-ant dictator who is willing to put up a fight. ------------------------------------------ "Isn't it funny how people say they'll never grow up to be their parents, then one day they look in the mirror and they're moving aircraft carriers into the Gulf region?" - The Onion
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No, I mean in the U.S. elections are coming up, so if Iraq delays enough, it is likely Bush will lose all congressional support. He and his party are not in the best position right now because of what they've done to the economy, and they need a war to get the patriotism running again and support for their cause higher. But if Iraq delays the war until after elections, causing Bush to lose congressional support, and pacifies the U.N. (at least temporairily), Bush is gonna have a hard time getting war going without the U.N. or Congress backing him up. Of course, if WMDs are actually found, then I would assume war is inevitable, and in my opinion would then be desirable; right now I am hesitant because I don't feel that we have much evidence. Rather an obvious move for Iraq, yet pretty effective.
-Domenic Denicola- [CPUA 0x1337] MadHamster Creations "I was born human. But this was an accident of fate - a condition merely of time and place. I believe it's something we have the power to change..."
He and his party are not in the best position right now because of what they've done to the economy, and they need a war to get the patriotism running again and support for their cause higher. Um, leaders always like to take credit for rises in the economy and accuse their opponents of causing falls in the economy. They don't have as much to do with it as they'd like you to believe. Anyway, here's a chart. Can you identify where Bush took office? (Hey, maybe the nasdaq anticipated Bush's win 9 months before he even took office. Right?) ------------------------------------------ "Isn't it funny how people say they'll never grow up to be their parents, then one day they look in the mirror and they're moving aircraft carriers into the Gulf region?" - The Onion
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http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A25855-2002Sep16.html[^] I thought this might happen. I also predict that Saddam will start messing with inspectors again once the "war on Iraq" campaign has lost some steam. Anyone want to place bets on when Saddam starts messing with inspectors again? ------------------------------------------ "Isn't it funny how people say they'll never grow up to be their parents, then one day they look in the mirror and they're moving aircraft carriers into the Gulf region?" - The Onion
Perhaps should UN inspectors go also to North Korea, which is much more dangerous than Iraq (because of its program of balistic missiles, for example) . Oh, yes, I forgot, N. Korea has no petrol ! We do not inherit the Earth from our ancestors. We borrow it from our children. Antoine de Saint Exupéry (1900-1944)
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I think a ten year embargo is too long; it is worse than anything we inflicted on Japan or Germany. It's to bad that Saddam is more interested in pursuing his own goals than helping his people. Don't forget his role in this. We need to do something to establish something akin to normal diplomatic and commerce relationships. So that everyone can accuse the US of ignoring the crimes of the world's worst dictators for oil -- which will fall neatly in their preconceived notions about the US? Wonderful. After all, if we can trade with communist china, surely we can deal with Iraq? I think the US sees China as being un-changable. And, I'd like to think we can resist the spread of nuclear weapons into the most volatile region in the world. Oh well. I guess we can always roll over and accept the decates of any piss-ant dictator who is willing to put up a fight. ------------------------------------------ "Isn't it funny how people say they'll never grow up to be their parents, then one day they look in the mirror and they're moving aircraft carriers into the Gulf region?" - The Onion
Brit wrote: It's to bad that Saddam is more interested in pursuing his own goals than helping his people. Don't forget his role in this. And the UN are punishing the Irakian people, not Hussein. Since the beginning of embargo, the estimation of children dying because of hunger or medicine lack is estimated to 7000 per month. It's not far to be a genocide, and UN are responsible. We do not inherit the Earth from our ancestors. We borrow it from our children. Antoine de Saint Exupéry (1900-1944)