What are your favorite tools...
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What tools do you like to use for creating database diagrams? Entity Relationship Diagrams (ERDs), Data State Transition Diagrams, etc. Ideally, I'm looking for something that analyzes what you have (either the DB directly, or the DDL used to create it) along with relationship info and spits out diagrams. Do any tools like this exist? If so, what are they? If not, what do you use to get the job done? -- Loren Brewer
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What tools do you like to use for creating database diagrams? Entity Relationship Diagrams (ERDs), Data State Transition Diagrams, etc. Ideally, I'm looking for something that analyzes what you have (either the DB directly, or the DDL used to create it) along with relationship info and spits out diagrams. Do any tools like this exist? If so, what are they? If not, what do you use to get the job done? -- Loren Brewer
Sorry, not sure why this posted twice! :confused::confused::confused:
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Sorry, not sure why this posted twice! :confused::confused::confused:
Did you click submit twice? Jeremy Falcon Imputek "In fact it is quite simple, men and women both only want one thing - what they can't have!" - phykell
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What tools do you like to use for creating database diagrams? Entity Relationship Diagrams (ERDs), Data State Transition Diagrams, etc. Ideally, I'm looking for something that analyzes what you have (either the DB directly, or the DDL used to create it) along with relationship info and spits out diagrams. Do any tools like this exist? If so, what are they? If not, what do you use to get the job done? -- Loren Brewer
Personally, I've always used SQL Server's built-in diagram support. It's similar to Access in that regard. But, if there is something better out there, then I'd kinda like to hear about it too. Jeremy Falcon Imputek "In fact it is quite simple, men and women both only want one thing - what they can't have!" - phykell
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Sorry, not sure why this posted twice! :confused::confused::confused:
You could always delete one of them, you have the ability to do that you know. David Stone But Clinton wasn't a predictable, boring, aging, lying, eloquent, maintainer-of-the-status-quo. He was a predictable, boring-but-trying-to-look-hip, aging-and-fat-but-seemingly-oblivious-to-it, lying-but-in-sadly-blatant-ways, not-eloquent-but-trying-to-make-up-for-it-by-talking-even-more, bringer-in-of-scary-and-potentially-dangerous-new-policies. And there was also Al Gore. It just wasn't *right*. Shog9
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You could always delete one of them, you have the ability to do that you know. David Stone But Clinton wasn't a predictable, boring, aging, lying, eloquent, maintainer-of-the-status-quo. He was a predictable, boring-but-trying-to-look-hip, aging-and-fat-but-seemingly-oblivious-to-it, lying-but-in-sadly-blatant-ways, not-eloquent-but-trying-to-make-up-for-it-by-talking-even-more, bringer-in-of-scary-and-potentially-dangerous-new-policies. And there was also Al Gore. It just wasn't *right*. Shog9
David Stone wrote: You could always delete one of them, you have the ability to do that you know. Thanks David... I just deleted the duplicate post. For some reason I never noticed the "delete" link which was staring me in the face this whole time :-O -- Loren Brewer
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What tools do you like to use for creating database diagrams? Entity Relationship Diagrams (ERDs), Data State Transition Diagrams, etc. Ideally, I'm looking for something that analyzes what you have (either the DB directly, or the DDL used to create it) along with relationship info and spits out diagrams. Do any tools like this exist? If so, what are they? If not, what do you use to get the job done? -- Loren Brewer
Check out Rational Rose. They have CASE tools and that sort of thing. I've never tried their products myself though... Drinking In The Sun Forgot Password?
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David Stone wrote: You could always delete one of them, you have the ability to do that you know. Thanks David... I just deleted the duplicate post. For some reason I never noticed the "delete" link which was staring me in the face this whole time :-O -- Loren Brewer
No problem. Sometimes I need help looking for the obvious David Stone But Clinton wasn't a predictable, boring, aging, lying, eloquent, maintainer-of-the-status-quo. He was a predictable, boring-but-trying-to-look-hip, aging-and-fat-but-seemingly-oblivious-to-it, lying-but-in-sadly-blatant-ways, not-eloquent-but-trying-to-make-up-for-it-by-talking-even-more, bringer-in-of-scary-and-potentially-dangerous-new-policies. And there was also Al Gore. It just wasn't *right*. Shog9
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What tools do you like to use for creating database diagrams? Entity Relationship Diagrams (ERDs), Data State Transition Diagrams, etc. Ideally, I'm looking for something that analyzes what you have (either the DB directly, or the DDL used to create it) along with relationship info and spits out diagrams. Do any tools like this exist? If so, what are they? If not, what do you use to get the job done? -- Loren Brewer
Currently I'm experimenting with the tools that come with Visio (VS.NET architect edition). It's quiet good at reverse engineer tables (even from Oracle). I find some of the features a bit limiting. You can describe the columns but there is no easy way of printing this information out in a useable format. Michael Programming is great. First they pay you to introduce bugs into software. Then they pay you to remove them again.
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Currently I'm experimenting with the tools that come with Visio (VS.NET architect edition). It's quiet good at reverse engineer tables (even from Oracle). I find some of the features a bit limiting. You can describe the columns but there is no easy way of printing this information out in a useable format. Michael Programming is great. First they pay you to introduce bugs into software. Then they pay you to remove them again.
must admit I like the ORM stuff - never understood ER diagrams - but then I do tend to think in OO terms - I also find a lot of the problesm I have when working with other companies databases is that they (the DBAs) designed the database to their own personal rules with no thought to how anyone on the outside will have to use the information or represent it in a user interface. Example: current (inherited) database I am working on has over 100 tables and 90% of the tables have a primary key that is made up of 2 or more elements (worst one has 7 elements). I have had to rework 30% of it so far as the database didn't fit the data available (just not modelled or analysed in any form).
Stupidity dies. The end of future offspring. Evolution wins. - A Darwin Awards Haiku
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No problem. Sometimes I need help looking for the obvious David Stone But Clinton wasn't a predictable, boring, aging, lying, eloquent, maintainer-of-the-status-quo. He was a predictable, boring-but-trying-to-look-hip, aging-and-fat-but-seemingly-oblivious-to-it, lying-but-in-sadly-blatant-ways, not-eloquent-but-trying-to-make-up-for-it-by-talking-even-more, bringer-in-of-scary-and-potentially-dangerous-new-policies. And there was also Al Gore. It just wasn't *right*. Shog9
David Stone wrote: No problem. Sometimes I need help looking for the obvious David your shoelaces are undone :)
Stupidity dies. The end of future offspring. Evolution wins. - A Darwin Awards Haiku
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David Stone wrote: No problem. Sometimes I need help looking for the obvious David your shoelaces are undone :)
Stupidity dies. The end of future offspring. Evolution wins. - A Darwin Awards Haiku
*Oumph, crash, bang, !@#%* Thanks. Now if you could have told me before I crashed into that wall, that would have been great!:-D David Stone But Clinton wasn't a predictable, boring, aging, lying, eloquent, maintainer-of-the-status-quo. He was a predictable, boring-but-trying-to-look-hip, aging-and-fat-but-seemingly-oblivious-to-it, lying-but-in-sadly-blatant-ways, not-eloquent-but-trying-to-make-up-for-it-by-talking-even-more, bringer-in-of-scary-and-potentially-dangerous-new-policies. And there was also Al Gore. It just wasn't *right*. Shog9
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*Oumph, crash, bang, !@#%* Thanks. Now if you could have told me before I crashed into that wall, that would have been great!:-D David Stone But Clinton wasn't a predictable, boring, aging, lying, eloquent, maintainer-of-the-status-quo. He was a predictable, boring-but-trying-to-look-hip, aging-and-fat-but-seemingly-oblivious-to-it, lying-but-in-sadly-blatant-ways, not-eloquent-but-trying-to-make-up-for-it-by-talking-even-more, bringer-in-of-scary-and-potentially-dangerous-new-policies. And there was also Al Gore. It just wasn't *right*. Shog9
Sorry :( but maybe you shouldn't have gone to the pub at lunch :)
Stupidity dies. The end of future offspring. Evolution wins. - A Darwin Awards Haiku
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must admit I like the ORM stuff - never understood ER diagrams - but then I do tend to think in OO terms - I also find a lot of the problesm I have when working with other companies databases is that they (the DBAs) designed the database to their own personal rules with no thought to how anyone on the outside will have to use the information or represent it in a user interface. Example: current (inherited) database I am working on has over 100 tables and 90% of the tables have a primary key that is made up of 2 or more elements (worst one has 7 elements). I have had to rework 30% of it so far as the database didn't fit the data available (just not modelled or analysed in any form).
Stupidity dies. The end of future offspring. Evolution wins. - A Darwin Awards Haiku
Speaking as a DBA.... That was most likely a DBA who didn't know what they were doing. pretty common pllace, unfortunately. Lots of folks jumped into it prior to Y2K and didn't get a solid education in proper modeling and layout. Basically they operate under what to me looks like ISAM methodologies, tossing everything into a few tables, relying on primary keys/unique indexes, etc. Also, alot of maturity has comeinto RDBMS system sin the last 7-10 years. If your database is older than that, it probably just needed the re-layout/overhaul. Good ERDs and the like, hmm.. Basically You're now talking UML really. This is a pretty fluid argument these days. Prior to the rise of UMl we used specific tools depending on the RDBMS. However the one that tended to fall under the major players alot was ERwin. Most DataWarehouses were laid out under that puppy. I haven't looked at it in quite a while to know if they have kept it up to date. I'm kinda shopping arround for a decent UML tool myself. Visio for architects is ok if you can afford the license (thank god for MSDN universal!) however, there's alot of other products that are pretty decent that will do round-trip generation of systems. Search this forum and you'll have a few good threads pop up. Mark Conger
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What tools do you like to use for creating database diagrams? Entity Relationship Diagrams (ERDs), Data State Transition Diagrams, etc. Ideally, I'm looking for something that analyzes what you have (either the DB directly, or the DDL used to create it) along with relationship info and spits out diagrams. Do any tools like this exist? If so, what are they? If not, what do you use to get the job done? -- Loren Brewer
Rational Rose is pretty cool, but Visio does the job too. Mauricio Ritter - Brazil Sonorking now: 100.13560 MRitter :jig: I've gone sending to outer space, to find another race :jig:
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Sorry :( but maybe you shouldn't have gone to the pub at lunch :)
Stupidity dies. The end of future offspring. Evolution wins. - A Darwin Awards Haiku
That wood haf bin brekfust *hic* miy tyme. Haus miy tipeeng thow? Eye theenk eye dew pritty wel whin ei've ad a fyou dreenks.;-P David Stone But Clinton wasn't a predictable, boring, aging, lying, eloquent, maintainer-of-the-status-quo. He was a predictable, boring-but-trying-to-look-hip, aging-and-fat-but-seemingly-oblivious-to-it, lying-but-in-sadly-blatant-ways, not-eloquent-but-trying-to-make-up-for-it-by-talking-even-more, bringer-in-of-scary-and-potentially-dangerous-new-policies. And there was also Al Gore. It just wasn't *right*. Shog9
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What tools do you like to use for creating database diagrams? Entity Relationship Diagrams (ERDs), Data State Transition Diagrams, etc. Ideally, I'm looking for something that analyzes what you have (either the DB directly, or the DDL used to create it) along with relationship info and spits out diagrams. Do any tools like this exist? If so, what are they? If not, what do you use to get the job done? -- Loren Brewer
Sybase PowerDesigner: http://www.sybase.com/products/enterprisemodeling/powerdesigner[^] Jon Sagara Damnit Jim!
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Speaking as a DBA.... That was most likely a DBA who didn't know what they were doing. pretty common pllace, unfortunately. Lots of folks jumped into it prior to Y2K and didn't get a solid education in proper modeling and layout. Basically they operate under what to me looks like ISAM methodologies, tossing everything into a few tables, relying on primary keys/unique indexes, etc. Also, alot of maturity has comeinto RDBMS system sin the last 7-10 years. If your database is older than that, it probably just needed the re-layout/overhaul. Good ERDs and the like, hmm.. Basically You're now talking UML really. This is a pretty fluid argument these days. Prior to the rise of UMl we used specific tools depending on the RDBMS. However the one that tended to fall under the major players alot was ERwin. Most DataWarehouses were laid out under that puppy. I haven't looked at it in quite a while to know if they have kept it up to date. I'm kinda shopping arround for a decent UML tool myself. Visio for architects is ok if you can afford the license (thank god for MSDN universal!) however, there's alot of other products that are pretty decent that will do round-trip generation of systems. Search this forum and you'll have a few good threads pop up. Mark Conger
Mark Conger wrote: That was most likely a DBA who didn't know what they were doing My thoughts. The culprit has since gone - before I arrived. Mark Conger wrote: Also, alot of maturity has comeinto RDBMS system sin the last 7-10 years. If your database is older than that, it probably just needed the re-layout/overhaul. It was designed last year? Your going to tell me to be very worried aren't you :) I am not that worried about it now - since I have been given a remit to alter whatever I need to, so I am taking it an area at a time, as I work on the UI required to interact with it and see the data coming from the client side to see what is required. Mark Conger wrote: Visio for architects is ok if you can afford the license (thank god for MSDN universal!) yup - that is what I am using - it took me several days just to get Visio (and Visual Studio) to read the database due to collation problems (known bug).
Stupidity dies. The end of future offspring. Evolution wins. - A Darwin Awards Haiku
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Mark Conger wrote: That was most likely a DBA who didn't know what they were doing My thoughts. The culprit has since gone - before I arrived. Mark Conger wrote: Also, alot of maturity has comeinto RDBMS system sin the last 7-10 years. If your database is older than that, it probably just needed the re-layout/overhaul. It was designed last year? Your going to tell me to be very worried aren't you :) I am not that worried about it now - since I have been given a remit to alter whatever I need to, so I am taking it an area at a time, as I work on the UI required to interact with it and see the data coming from the client side to see what is required. Mark Conger wrote: Visio for architects is ok if you can afford the license (thank god for MSDN universal!) yup - that is what I am using - it took me several days just to get Visio (and Visual Studio) to read the database due to collation problems (known bug).
Stupidity dies. The end of future offspring. Evolution wins. - A Darwin Awards Haiku
Hey, culprit probably knew he/she/it was over their head :) or someone figured it out.... Designed last year??? uh-boy... Be afraid, be very afraid! ;P. Seriously though, if they've given you carte blanche to change whatever you want, you're lucky. Most peeps in your position usually have to bandaid it and fix it piece by piece over a long stretch. Done that WAY too many times (Views are your friends!!!!). Don't be afraid to look at the projet as a whole. the big problem with RDBMS projects is having too narrow a focus. Lots of times that can cause you to design yourself into a trap. I usually have several days/weks of planning before I create the first table and part of that is figuring out the business rules. I usually am not in the position of being the developer of the app as well as the DBA. (Try dealing with 10,000 tables :) plenty enough crap to deal with without adding writing the front end.) You sound like you know what you're doing. just make use of what you have; most RDBMS projects don't take advantage of what the engine is really good at. RDBMS is alot more than something to just toss tables into. If I wanted to do that, we'd all still be using Access or Btreive. Mark
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What tools do you like to use for creating database diagrams? Entity Relationship Diagrams (ERDs), Data State Transition Diagrams, etc. Ideally, I'm looking for something that analyzes what you have (either the DB directly, or the DDL used to create it) along with relationship info and spits out diagrams. Do any tools like this exist? If so, what are they? If not, what do you use to get the job done? -- Loren Brewer
Try ERwin[^]. I have been using it for the past 7 years despite trying other products. ERwin can work with a variety of databases including Oracle, Sybase, SQL Server, and MS Access. Erik Westermann Author, Learn XML In A Weekend (October 2002)