The ever shrinking pixel
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Since monitor resolutions keep going up up up has anyone found it getting more and more difficult to click on certain things in windows? Trying to grab a vertical splitter in VS (solution explorer window) is an exercise in frustration these days. Sometimes resizing windows is also a pain. You see the cursor change indicating you're on the correct spot but when you go to click the mouse button you nudge over a pixel and BAM you're no longer on target. Is this just my particular mouse / monitor resolution / OS setup or are others experiencing this as well? (MS Intellimouse Optical, IntelliPoint 6.2, 1 slider tick away from full speed on the pointer options and 1920x1200).
Todd Smith
Most of the time the problem is Windows treats your monitor as having 96 dpi, where in reality modern monitors often have 120 or more dpi. Here is what everyone should do to get the expected dimensions on screen: 1. calculate actual DPI; you can use this formula:
SQRT(w*w + h*h)/diagwhere w and h are the monitor width and height in pixels, and diag is the diagonal in inches. Example1: w=1440, h=900, diag=17 ==> dpi=SQRT(1440*1440 + 900*900)/17=SQRT(2883600)/17=1698/17=100 is close enough to 96 Example2: w=1920, h=1200, diag=20 ==> dpi=SQRT(1920*1920 + 1200*1200)/20=SQRT(5126400)/20=2264/20=113 is 118% of 96pdi 2. go to Display Properties, Settings, Advanced, choose custom DPI, and choose 118% in case of example2. If the value was still at 100% (hence 96dpi), the net result will be that your desktop logically shrinks by 18% however what remains visible now takes the full screen area, hence is 18% larger (linearly). BTW: some (if not all) manufacturers leave the default resolution at 96 dpi, even when they know this to be incorrect (e.g.you buy a laptop with a high-resolution display); I had this experience first with Dell, several years ago. :)Luc Pattyn [Forum Guidelines] [My Articles]
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Most of the time the problem is Windows treats your monitor as having 96 dpi, where in reality modern monitors often have 120 or more dpi. Here is what everyone should do to get the expected dimensions on screen: 1. calculate actual DPI; you can use this formula:
SQRT(w*w + h*h)/diagwhere w and h are the monitor width and height in pixels, and diag is the diagonal in inches. Example1: w=1440, h=900, diag=17 ==> dpi=SQRT(1440*1440 + 900*900)/17=SQRT(2883600)/17=1698/17=100 is close enough to 96 Example2: w=1920, h=1200, diag=20 ==> dpi=SQRT(1920*1920 + 1200*1200)/20=SQRT(5126400)/20=2264/20=113 is 118% of 96pdi 2. go to Display Properties, Settings, Advanced, choose custom DPI, and choose 118% in case of example2. If the value was still at 100% (hence 96dpi), the net result will be that your desktop logically shrinks by 18% however what remains visible now takes the full screen area, hence is 18% larger (linearly). BTW: some (if not all) manufacturers leave the default resolution at 96 dpi, even when they know this to be incorrect (e.g.you buy a laptop with a high-resolution display); I had this experience first with Dell, several years ago. :)Luc Pattyn [Forum Guidelines] [My Articles]
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Excellent information, thank you for sharing this ...
:..::. Douglas H. Troy ::..
Bad Astronomy |VCF|wxWidgets|WTL -
Excellent information, thank you for sharing this ...
:..::. Douglas H. Troy ::..
Bad Astronomy |VCF|wxWidgets|WTLYou're welcome. BTW: I only told part of the story. Several years ago I did create a small app that toggles screen resolution between high-res and normal-res with a hotkey. There are several tricky parts in doing it right: - setting the resolution is no problem, just a bit of P/Invoke; however: - all the desktop icons (assuming "snap to grid", no "automatic positioning") move around randomly when they would fall outside the reduced desktop area, so I tried to memorize their position at each resolution and make them move as little as possible. Never fully managed to cope with the "logic" Explorer applies to it though. - all the open Windows that suddenly are larger than the new desktop area, get shrunk by Windows Explorer, which is fine but needs to be undone when switching back to the high-res mode (so a Window that filled most of the screen at high-res does so again when returning to high-res). That works fine, except I have never found a way to get at the dimensions of a minimized window: hence a large but minimized window would shrink automatically but not grow back to its original size. However I stopped using this tool when I started using FireFox, which zooms rather well, except it tries to associate zoom factors with URLs in an uncontrollable manner. I wish I could edit such settings somewhere, and/or limit the zooming to a couple of factors. :)
Luc Pattyn [Forum Guidelines] [My Articles]
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modified on Tuesday, May 5, 2009 9:00 PM
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Since monitor resolutions keep going up up up has anyone found it getting more and more difficult to click on certain things in windows? Trying to grab a vertical splitter in VS (solution explorer window) is an exercise in frustration these days. Sometimes resizing windows is also a pain. You see the cursor change indicating you're on the correct spot but when you go to click the mouse button you nudge over a pixel and BAM you're no longer on target. Is this just my particular mouse / monitor resolution / OS setup or are others experiencing this as well? (MS Intellimouse Optical, IntelliPoint 6.2, 1 slider tick away from full speed on the pointer options and 1920x1200).
Todd Smith
Ahhh. I had to deal with a 8K x 2.5K resolution in 9 or so years ago. You need to have mouse acceleration on. If you are wondering what kind of displays I used, they were 4 x 2K by 2.5K medical monitors. A pair of them set us back $30K US with a discount. We still have this resolution in use but now they are flat panels instead of 150 lb space heaters.
John
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Since monitor resolutions keep going up up up has anyone found it getting more and more difficult to click on certain things in windows? Trying to grab a vertical splitter in VS (solution explorer window) is an exercise in frustration these days. Sometimes resizing windows is also a pain. You see the cursor change indicating you're on the correct spot but when you go to click the mouse button you nudge over a pixel and BAM you're no longer on target. Is this just my particular mouse / monitor resolution / OS setup or are others experiencing this as well? (MS Intellimouse Optical, IntelliPoint 6.2, 1 slider tick away from full speed on the pointer options and 1920x1200).
Todd Smith
It's not just you, that's for sure. I find docking toolbars the most frustrating thing. If you have a bunch of horizontal toolbars on different rows, and you want to make them on the same row, good luck in finding that magic few pixels that makes them shares rows instead of puts and above and below. Could you imagine dragging that slider on a touch screen? What are the changes you'll find the magic part on the screen with your finger 4 times the width of the slider. Yuck. I hope things improve with resolution independent interfaces, but I'm not holding my breath.
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Most of the time the problem is Windows treats your monitor as having 96 dpi, where in reality modern monitors often have 120 or more dpi. Here is what everyone should do to get the expected dimensions on screen: 1. calculate actual DPI; you can use this formula:
SQRT(w*w + h*h)/diagwhere w and h are the monitor width and height in pixels, and diag is the diagonal in inches. Example1: w=1440, h=900, diag=17 ==> dpi=SQRT(1440*1440 + 900*900)/17=SQRT(2883600)/17=1698/17=100 is close enough to 96 Example2: w=1920, h=1200, diag=20 ==> dpi=SQRT(1920*1920 + 1200*1200)/20=SQRT(5126400)/20=2264/20=113 is 118% of 96pdi 2. go to Display Properties, Settings, Advanced, choose custom DPI, and choose 118% in case of example2. If the value was still at 100% (hence 96dpi), the net result will be that your desktop logically shrinks by 18% however what remains visible now takes the full screen area, hence is 18% larger (linearly). BTW: some (if not all) manufacturers leave the default resolution at 96 dpi, even when they know this to be incorrect (e.g.you buy a laptop with a high-resolution display); I had this experience first with Dell, several years ago. :)Luc Pattyn [Forum Guidelines] [My Articles]
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For that I usually just increase the DPI until the default font is easily readable.
John
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Most of the time the problem is Windows treats your monitor as having 96 dpi, where in reality modern monitors often have 120 or more dpi. Here is what everyone should do to get the expected dimensions on screen: 1. calculate actual DPI; you can use this formula:
SQRT(w*w + h*h)/diagwhere w and h are the monitor width and height in pixels, and diag is the diagonal in inches. Example1: w=1440, h=900, diag=17 ==> dpi=SQRT(1440*1440 + 900*900)/17=SQRT(2883600)/17=1698/17=100 is close enough to 96 Example2: w=1920, h=1200, diag=20 ==> dpi=SQRT(1920*1920 + 1200*1200)/20=SQRT(5126400)/20=2264/20=113 is 118% of 96pdi 2. go to Display Properties, Settings, Advanced, choose custom DPI, and choose 118% in case of example2. If the value was still at 100% (hence 96dpi), the net result will be that your desktop logically shrinks by 18% however what remains visible now takes the full screen area, hence is 18% larger (linearly). BTW: some (if not all) manufacturers leave the default resolution at 96 dpi, even when they know this to be incorrect (e.g.you buy a laptop with a high-resolution display); I had this experience first with Dell, several years ago. :)Luc Pattyn [Forum Guidelines] [My Articles]
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Hmm, I thought that applies only to things that are measured in inches (or some actual length measure), instead of pixels. As you say, if an object on the screen is supposed to be 1 inch long, Windows will use 96 pixels to draw it (at 96 dpi). If the screen is instead 120 dpi, the actual length will be 96/120 inches, and I thought that's what the DPI setting helps avoid.
Regards Senthil [MVP - Visual C#] _____________________________ My Home Page |My Blog | My Articles | My Flickr | WinMacro
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Since monitor resolutions keep going up up up has anyone found it getting more and more difficult to click on certain things in windows? Trying to grab a vertical splitter in VS (solution explorer window) is an exercise in frustration these days. Sometimes resizing windows is also a pain. You see the cursor change indicating you're on the correct spot but when you go to click the mouse button you nudge over a pixel and BAM you're no longer on target. Is this just my particular mouse / monitor resolution / OS setup or are others experiencing this as well? (MS Intellimouse Optical, IntelliPoint 6.2, 1 slider tick away from full speed on the pointer options and 1920x1200).
Todd Smith
I'm having the same problem trying to hit an ever-shrinking target. If it gets much worse I'm going to have to re-enable the Magnifier function on my wireless mouse just to hit an icon.
"A Journey of a Thousand Rest Stops Begins with a Single Movement"
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You're welcome. BTW: I only told part of the story. Several years ago I did create a small app that toggles screen resolution between high-res and normal-res with a hotkey. There are several tricky parts in doing it right: - setting the resolution is no problem, just a bit of P/Invoke; however: - all the desktop icons (assuming "snap to grid", no "automatic positioning") move around randomly when they would fall outside the reduced desktop area, so I tried to memorize their position at each resolution and make them move as little as possible. Never fully managed to cope with the "logic" Explorer applies to it though. - all the open Windows that suddenly are larger than the new desktop area, get shrunk by Windows Explorer, which is fine but needs to be undone when switching back to the high-res mode (so a Window that filled most of the screen at high-res does so again when returning to high-res). That works fine, except I have never found a way to get at the dimensions of a minimized window: hence a large but minimized window would shrink automatically but not grow back to its original size. However I stopped using this tool when I started using FireFox, which zooms rather well, except it tries to associate zoom factors with URLs in an uncontrollable manner. I wish I could edit such settings somewhere, and/or limit the zooming to a couple of factors. :)
Luc Pattyn [Forum Guidelines] [My Articles]
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modified on Tuesday, May 5, 2009 9:00 PM
"I wish I could edit such settings somewhere, and/or limit the zooming to a couple of factors." In your Firefox, type about:config in the address bar. On the main page, you will see a long list of configuration entries. Enter the name of the key you want to update in the “Filter” field. The list will narrow to only the entries that match your keyword as you type. To modify the value, simply double click on the entry value field and update the entry. That’s all! 17) Same Zoom Level For Every Site Firefox remembers your zoom preference for each site and set it to your preferences whenever you load the page. If you want the zoom level to be consistent from site to site, you can toggle the value of browser.zoom.siteSpecific from True to False. Config name: browser.zoom.siteSpecific Default: True Modified value: False (enable same zoom preferences for every sites) http://maketecheasier.com/28-coolest-firefox-aboutconfig-tricks/2008/08/21[^]
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Since monitor resolutions keep going up up up has anyone found it getting more and more difficult to click on certain things in windows? Trying to grab a vertical splitter in VS (solution explorer window) is an exercise in frustration these days. Sometimes resizing windows is also a pain. You see the cursor change indicating you're on the correct spot but when you go to click the mouse button you nudge over a pixel and BAM you're no longer on target. Is this just my particular mouse / monitor resolution / OS setup or are others experiencing this as well? (MS Intellimouse Optical, IntelliPoint 6.2, 1 slider tick away from full speed on the pointer options and 1920x1200).
Todd Smith
That's only part of the resolution! We are making touch enabled software for the dental market. We need access to data (and Xrays) during treatments and that means we need large monitors. So since more then 7 years we use 120 DPI and higher to accomplish visibility. The real problem is not DPI but precalculation of fontsize(including type aspects) before applying resize logic. Min size of labels, min size of forms and so on has to be precalulated realtime, depending upon size charateristrics. You can see why this is so important: even Microsoft doeds not cooerectly precalculate fonts in larger DPI's. Jan Ulehake, TabDents, Netherlands.
dentist
software developper
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Most of the time the problem is Windows treats your monitor as having 96 dpi, where in reality modern monitors often have 120 or more dpi. Here is what everyone should do to get the expected dimensions on screen: 1. calculate actual DPI; you can use this formula:
SQRT(w*w + h*h)/diagwhere w and h are the monitor width and height in pixels, and diag is the diagonal in inches. Example1: w=1440, h=900, diag=17 ==> dpi=SQRT(1440*1440 + 900*900)/17=SQRT(2883600)/17=1698/17=100 is close enough to 96 Example2: w=1920, h=1200, diag=20 ==> dpi=SQRT(1920*1920 + 1200*1200)/20=SQRT(5126400)/20=2264/20=113 is 118% of 96pdi 2. go to Display Properties, Settings, Advanced, choose custom DPI, and choose 118% in case of example2. If the value was still at 100% (hence 96dpi), the net result will be that your desktop logically shrinks by 18% however what remains visible now takes the full screen area, hence is 18% larger (linearly). BTW: some (if not all) manufacturers leave the default resolution at 96 dpi, even when they know this to be incorrect (e.g.you buy a laptop with a high-resolution display); I had this experience first with Dell, several years ago. :)Luc Pattyn [Forum Guidelines] [My Articles]
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Hmm, I thought that applies only to things that are measured in inches (or some actual length measure), instead of pixels. As you say, if an object on the screen is supposed to be 1 inch long, Windows will use 96 pixels to draw it (at 96 dpi). If the screen is instead 120 dpi, the actual length will be 96/120 inches, and I thought that's what the DPI setting helps avoid.
Regards Senthil [MVP - Visual C#] _____________________________ My Home Page |My Blog | My Articles | My Flickr | WinMacro
even so, many more things are measured in inches, such as font sizes: the point unit used in one way or another euals 1/72d of an inch. however, you are right, some things are resolution independent, such as a 1-pixel wide line. Here shrinking pixels yield a fainter line. :)
Luc Pattyn [Forum Guidelines] [My Articles]
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Since monitor resolutions keep going up up up has anyone found it getting more and more difficult to click on certain things in windows? Trying to grab a vertical splitter in VS (solution explorer window) is an exercise in frustration these days. Sometimes resizing windows is also a pain. You see the cursor change indicating you're on the correct spot but when you go to click the mouse button you nudge over a pixel and BAM you're no longer on target. Is this just my particular mouse / monitor resolution / OS setup or are others experiencing this as well? (MS Intellimouse Optical, IntelliPoint 6.2, 1 slider tick away from full speed on the pointer options and 1920x1200).
Todd Smith
Where do you find those monitors? The resolution tends to go DOWN for new monitors (well, at least the cheap ones). For example, all 22" monitors seem to use a resolution of 1.680 x 1.050. That's only 90 DPI! I've seen 17" monitors that had a better resolution - but those seem to have disappeared now. Apparently the manufacturers think the main use of a computer is watching videos - the monitors are getting bigger, even wider (I'm seeing more and more 16:9 PC monitors), but the resolution is shrinking. Unfortunately, if you DO have a good monitor, you'll have to deal either with too small display elements, or with apps that break when you change the DPI setting in Windows. It's a bit better with Vista though, there the desktop manager can scale up application windows as bitmaps. That doesn't look nice, but it's better than the alternatives (having tiny buttons or buttons that are unreachable because the layout is messed up on high DPI settings).
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"I wish I could edit such settings somewhere, and/or limit the zooming to a couple of factors." In your Firefox, type about:config in the address bar. On the main page, you will see a long list of configuration entries. Enter the name of the key you want to update in the “Filter” field. The list will narrow to only the entries that match your keyword as you type. To modify the value, simply double click on the entry value field and update the entry. That’s all! 17) Same Zoom Level For Every Site Firefox remembers your zoom preference for each site and set it to your preferences whenever you load the page. If you want the zoom level to be consistent from site to site, you can toggle the value of browser.zoom.siteSpecific from True to False. Config name: browser.zoom.siteSpecific Default: True Modified value: False (enable same zoom preferences for every sites) http://maketecheasier.com/28-coolest-firefox-aboutconfig-tricks/2008/08/21[^]
Hi Mike, thanks for the info. Much appreciated. :)
Luc Pattyn [Forum Guidelines] [My Articles]
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Where do you find those monitors? The resolution tends to go DOWN for new monitors (well, at least the cheap ones). For example, all 22" monitors seem to use a resolution of 1.680 x 1.050. That's only 90 DPI! I've seen 17" monitors that had a better resolution - but those seem to have disappeared now. Apparently the manufacturers think the main use of a computer is watching videos - the monitors are getting bigger, even wider (I'm seeing more and more 16:9 PC monitors), but the resolution is shrinking. Unfortunately, if you DO have a good monitor, you'll have to deal either with too small display elements, or with apps that break when you change the DPI setting in Windows. It's a bit better with Vista though, there the desktop manager can scale up application windows as bitmaps. That doesn't look nice, but it's better than the alternatives (having tiny buttons or buttons that are unreachable because the layout is messed up on high DPI settings).
Um... this thread is mostly silly to m e (Except for the observation that many bigger monitors don't have the higher resolutions you'd expect available). as for the shrinking targets, shrinking pixels .... Let me call the "WaAAAHH-bulance."... Here is the trick: CHANGE YOUR RESOLUTION!!!!! GEESH
Know way to many languages... master of none!
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Um... this thread is mostly silly to m e (Except for the observation that many bigger monitors don't have the higher resolutions you'd expect available). as for the shrinking targets, shrinking pixels .... Let me call the "WaAAAHH-bulance."... Here is the trick: CHANGE YOUR RESOLUTION!!!!! GEESH
Know way to many languages... master of none!
It does not make much sense to let the PC calculate the screen content at one resolution and then have the monitor rescale everything to another resolution; when scaling up (or down), it has to create new pixel values without knowing what is actually being rendered. Especially on digital monitors (LED, LCD, plasma) you will get better overall image quality by keeping the resolution equal to the number of pixels that are physically available in your monitor, and by giving Windows the actual DPI value. That way, rather than having the monitor trying to scale everything, Windows will draw almost everything to the right size; images will get interpolated better, and texts (using TrueType or other smart font technology) will render much better. The one thing that will not work properly is elements drawn with pixel sizes, rather than physical sizes (inches, points, ...). :)
Luc Pattyn [Forum Guidelines] [My Articles]
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-
Most of the time the problem is Windows treats your monitor as having 96 dpi, where in reality modern monitors often have 120 or more dpi. Here is what everyone should do to get the expected dimensions on screen: 1. calculate actual DPI; you can use this formula:
SQRT(w*w + h*h)/diagwhere w and h are the monitor width and height in pixels, and diag is the diagonal in inches. Example1: w=1440, h=900, diag=17 ==> dpi=SQRT(1440*1440 + 900*900)/17=SQRT(2883600)/17=1698/17=100 is close enough to 96 Example2: w=1920, h=1200, diag=20 ==> dpi=SQRT(1920*1920 + 1200*1200)/20=SQRT(5126400)/20=2264/20=113 is 118% of 96pdi 2. go to Display Properties, Settings, Advanced, choose custom DPI, and choose 118% in case of example2. If the value was still at 100% (hence 96dpi), the net result will be that your desktop logically shrinks by 18% however what remains visible now takes the full screen area, hence is 18% larger (linearly). BTW: some (if not all) manufacturers leave the default resolution at 96 dpi, even when they know this to be incorrect (e.g.you buy a laptop with a high-resolution display); I had this experience first with Dell, several years ago. :)Luc Pattyn [Forum Guidelines] [My Articles]
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I've switched both of my systems over to 118% so we'll see how it works. The only negative is that it changes the way fonts look. I'll have to tweak the fonts if the clicking becomes noticeably more accurate.
Todd Smith
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Since monitor resolutions keep going up up up has anyone found it getting more and more difficult to click on certain things in windows? Trying to grab a vertical splitter in VS (solution explorer window) is an exercise in frustration these days. Sometimes resizing windows is also a pain. You see the cursor change indicating you're on the correct spot but when you go to click the mouse button you nudge over a pixel and BAM you're no longer on target. Is this just my particular mouse / monitor resolution / OS setup or are others experiencing this as well? (MS Intellimouse Optical, IntelliPoint 6.2, 1 slider tick away from full speed on the pointer options and 1920x1200).
Todd Smith
I think mouse coordination skills factor in as well. I set my mouse speed next to the maximum speed and I'm not having any problems on my 1920 × 1200 screen.
My GUID: ca2262a7-0026-4830-a0b3-fe5d66c4eb1d :) Now I can Google this value and find all my Code Project posts!
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Where do you find those monitors? The resolution tends to go DOWN for new monitors (well, at least the cheap ones). For example, all 22" monitors seem to use a resolution of 1.680 x 1.050. That's only 90 DPI! I've seen 17" monitors that had a better resolution - but those seem to have disappeared now. Apparently the manufacturers think the main use of a computer is watching videos - the monitors are getting bigger, even wider (I'm seeing more and more 16:9 PC monitors), but the resolution is shrinking. Unfortunately, if you DO have a good monitor, you'll have to deal either with too small display elements, or with apps that break when you change the DPI setting in Windows. It's a bit better with Vista though, there the desktop manager can scale up application windows as bitmaps. That doesn't look nice, but it's better than the alternatives (having tiny buttons or buttons that are unreachable because the layout is messed up on high DPI settings).
Daniel Grunwald wrote:
Where do you find those monitors? The resolution tends to go DOWN for new monitors (well, at least the cheap ones). For example, all 22" monitors seem to use a resolution of 1.680 x 1.050. That's only 90 DPI! I've seen 17" monitors that had a better resolution - but those seem to have disappeared now.
Todd Smith
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I think mouse coordination skills factor in as well. I set my mouse speed next to the maximum speed and I'm not having any problems on my 1920 × 1200 screen.
My GUID: ca2262a7-0026-4830-a0b3-fe5d66c4eb1d :) Now I can Google this value and find all my Code Project posts!
Lee, Gun-Woon wrote:
I think mouse coordination skills factor in as well. I set my mouse speed next to the maximum speed and I'm not having any problems on my 1920 × 1200 screen.
What kind of mouse? I'm beginning to think there's a big difference in behavior when it comes to mice.
Todd Smith