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  3. How wide is your code?

How wide is your code?

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  • C charlieg

    You young'uns ar spoiled by modern technology. I'm one of those old geezers still writing code, dangerously close to the 3 decade mark. I think John Simmons is older than me. He's angrier, i'm more dangerous ;) So, I'm contemplating a couple of s/w issues and one of those is - when to hit the return key? As I type this, I have to my left a 1920x1200 monitor connected to my 1920x1200 laptop. It seems to me a little silly to worry about any developer who might not have the same h/w rsources. To arbitrarily linebreak at 80, 132, or whatever seems a bit silly. Printing? Muahahahaaha.. come on. Thoughts?

    Charlie Gilley Will program for food... Hurtling toward a government of the stupid, by the stupid, for the stupid we go. —Michelle Malkin This crap sandwich is all yours.... 2009 "Stimulus Bill"

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    Larry G Grimes
    wrote on last edited by
    #51

    Anyone like me remember when we were restricted to a 132 character line length limit because that was the standard for line printers? The longer a line is, the more difficult it is to read. To keep program code effective, efficient, readable and elegant, lines should be kept short. If indenting keeps moving to the right, it helps elegance and readability to create a subroutine (if it doesn't affect performance).

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    • J JDL EPM

      Walt Fair, Jr. wrote:

      Youngster! I wrote my first program in 1967 (remember punch cards? ), so I'm working on my 5th decade. I usually try to keep my code on a normal screen or page, so I keep it around 80 characters wide, but sometimes I violate that guideline.

      First Program: 1965 First Computer: IBM 1620 First Language: Gotran (a simplified Fortran - only one operation per punch card) First printer: IBM golf ball typewriter Page Width: Whatever the flavour of the month is for my employer. 43 pay cheques to go!

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      Dr Walt Fair PE
      wrote on last edited by
      #52

      My first program was for an IBM 1620 with the golf ball typewriter as well. The first program I *wrote* was also in Gotran, but unfortunately our machine didn't have enough power to run the compiler, so I never got to run it. The first program I actually *ran* was in IBM 1620 assembly language. For those who don't know, the IBM 1620 had a rotating drum memory, used BCD rather than pure binary, and only did integer addition and subtraction for math operations. Part of our class project was to program multiplication and division and figure out how to implement some sort of floating point. Of course the compilers took care of that, but we were messing with assembly.

      CQ de W5ALT

      Walt Fair, Jr., P. E. Comport Computing Specializing in Technical Engineering Software

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      • D Donsw

        isn't it all about readability? when was the last time you printed code?

        cheers, Donsw My Recent Article : Backup of Data files - Full and Incremental

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        PIEBALDconsult
        wrote on last edited by
        #53

        Donsw wrote:

        when was the last time you printed code?

        Friday.

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        • J jsc42

          Robert Surtees wrote:

          For those that did not have the pleasure of using punch cards, you have to also understad that the keypunch machines rarely had a working ribbon in them so to insert new cards (or, heavan forbid you dropped the deck) you had to identify them by reading the semi-braille dents across the top or otherwise make sense of the pattern of punched out holes.

          Luxury! We had the 'manual' card punches - normally requiring using two or three fingers per character (up to 6 if using EBCDIC) directly pushing the punches that made the holes; later models included a mechanism that forwarded the card to the next column after you released the punches; there were no printing capabilities. You only found out if you'd used the correct finger combinations when the deck came back with the lineprinter listing (approx a fortnight later). Even that was better than using coding sheets - sent to the punch room to be mispunched, so you'd send the same data again to be mispunched again. I'm still a youngster to computing - only about 37 years of coding experience (started late in life). I started with paper tape - I cut my own strips of paper, sellotaped the lengths then punched the holes with a knitting needle, being careful to ensure that the holes lined up. After that, cards punched using a mechanical machine were a breeze.

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          BadKarma
          wrote on last edited by
          #54

          jsc42 wrote:

          Luxury! We had the 'manual' card punches - normally requiring using two or three fingers per character (up to 6 if using EBCDIC) directly pushing the punches that made the holes; later models included a mechanism that forwarded the card to the next column after you released the punches; there were no printing capabilities. You only found out if you'd used the correct finger combinations when the deck came back with the lineprinter listing (approx a fortnight later). Even that was better than using coding sheets - sent to the punch room to be mispunched, so you'd send the same data again to be mispunched again.

          Luxury. We had to get up at 4 a clock in the morning, walk ten miles to the stone quarry, work for 12 straight hours sawing of a nice stone tablet. Then we had to walk back 14 miles with the 100 pound tablet on our backs, to the office where we carved holes in the tables using a spoon. God forbid if we carved a hole out at the wrong place, we could go back to the quarry for a new tablet. When we done programming the tablet we could test it on our debugsystem which was located on the 31 floor (no lift in the building). I usually got back from the office at 3 a clock the next day. So could sleep at least 1 houre. ;)

          Learn from the mistakes of others, you may not live long enough to make them all yourself.

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          • C charlieg

            You young'uns ar spoiled by modern technology. I'm one of those old geezers still writing code, dangerously close to the 3 decade mark. I think John Simmons is older than me. He's angrier, i'm more dangerous ;) So, I'm contemplating a couple of s/w issues and one of those is - when to hit the return key? As I type this, I have to my left a 1920x1200 monitor connected to my 1920x1200 laptop. It seems to me a little silly to worry about any developer who might not have the same h/w rsources. To arbitrarily linebreak at 80, 132, or whatever seems a bit silly. Printing? Muahahahaaha.. come on. Thoughts?

            Charlie Gilley Will program for food... Hurtling toward a government of the stupid, by the stupid, for the stupid we go. —Michelle Malkin This crap sandwich is all yours.... 2009 "Stimulus Bill"

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            kmoorevs
            wrote on last edited by
            #55

            There is a limit of 1024 characters in the VS editor. For long sql statements I have to break as I prefer to separate the same as my query builder. I am the sole developer here, so no one else ever sees it anyway and I have no problem debugging in this format. Print code? Why on earth would code need to be printed? What a waste!

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            • K kmoorevs

              There is a limit of 1024 characters in the VS editor. For long sql statements I have to break as I prefer to separate the same as my query builder. I am the sole developer here, so no one else ever sees it anyway and I have no problem debugging in this format. Print code? Why on earth would code need to be printed? What a waste!

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              Dan Neely
              wrote on last edited by
              #56

              kmoorevs wrote:

              Print code? Why on earth would code need to be printed? What a waste! Quote Selected Text

              It's much easier to draw arrows and start unfubaring spaghetti code you were inflicted with in a 5' paper listing than in a 1' tall screen. Otherwise I can't think of any reason I've done so on the job.

              It is a truth universally acknowledged that a zombie in possession of brains must be in want of more brains. -- Pride and Prejudice and Zombies

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              • T Todd Smith

                Word wrap. Returns are for wimps.

                Todd Smith

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                PIEBALDconsult
                wrote on last edited by
                #57

                Indeed, a programming language should not require newlines.

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                • K kmoorevs

                  There is a limit of 1024 characters in the VS editor. For long sql statements I have to break as I prefer to separate the same as my query builder. I am the sole developer here, so no one else ever sees it anyway and I have no problem debugging in this format. Print code? Why on earth would code need to be printed? What a waste!

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                  PIEBALDconsult
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #58

                  I print out code that's giving me trouble; it allows me to step away from the computer and get a fresh look at it. I can also mark it up with pencil without changing the code. It also helps with code that I'm preparing to publish.

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                  • D Dr Walt Fair PE

                    charlieg wrote:

                    I'm one of those old geezers still writing code, dangerously close to the 3 decade mark.

                    Youngster! I wrote my first program in 1967 (remember punch cards? ), so I'm working on my 5th decade. I usually try to keep my code on a normal screen or page, so I keep it around 80 characters wide, but sometimes I violate that guideline.

                    CQ de W5ALT

                    Walt Fair, Jr., P. E. Comport Computing Specializing in Technical Engineering Software

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                    Joe Woodbury
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #59

                    The first program I wrote myself was on an Apple II in 1980. Ironically, I took a step back to punch card machines at college in a Fortran class. It was so boring, I never did major in CS. Two years later, I was taking another computer class (I was majoring in Design Engineering at the time) and the punch card machines had been updated to have a digital display--you would enter the data using the display and then hit print. Especially given that I was a lab tutor in a Vax lab, it was one of the silliest things I'd ever seen.

                    Anyone who thinks he has a better idea of what's good for people than people do is a swine. - P.J. O'Rourke

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                    • L Luc Pattyn

                      Hi, I use different computers, different monitor widths, and I hate scrolling horizontally all the time, so I prefer not to exceed some 90 characters on a line; I use 4-space tabs and told Visual to show guide lines by adding a registry key: HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Microsoft\VCSExpress\9.0\Text Editor (adjust as required) Add a string called “Guides”, set its value to RGB(255,0,0) 80,96 BTW: my printing code will take care of lines that exceed the page width. FWIW: I don't want wide code snippets when composing a message here! :)

                      Luc Pattyn [Forum Guidelines] [My Articles]


                      The quality and detail of your question reflects on the effectiveness of the help you are likely to get. Show formatted code inside PRE tags, and give clear symptoms when describing a problem.


                      modified on Sunday, May 17, 2009 6:32 PM

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                      GeorgeMayfield
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #60

                      The guides are cool. Thanks George

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                      • G GeorgeMayfield

                        The guides are cool. Thanks George

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                        Luc Pattyn
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #61

                        No problem. :)

                        Luc Pattyn [Forum Guidelines] [My Articles]


                        The quality and detail of your question reflects on the effectiveness of the help you are likely to get. Show formatted code inside PRE tags, and give clear symptoms when describing a problem.


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                        • C charlieg

                          You young'uns ar spoiled by modern technology. I'm one of those old geezers still writing code, dangerously close to the 3 decade mark. I think John Simmons is older than me. He's angrier, i'm more dangerous ;) So, I'm contemplating a couple of s/w issues and one of those is - when to hit the return key? As I type this, I have to my left a 1920x1200 monitor connected to my 1920x1200 laptop. It seems to me a little silly to worry about any developer who might not have the same h/w rsources. To arbitrarily linebreak at 80, 132, or whatever seems a bit silly. Printing? Muahahahaaha.. come on. Thoughts?

                          Charlie Gilley Will program for food... Hurtling toward a government of the stupid, by the stupid, for the stupid we go. —Michelle Malkin This crap sandwich is all yours.... 2009 "Stimulus Bill"

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                          CDMTJX
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #62

                          Young 'uns?? :confused: Mature programers like printouts, multiple sheets spread out, and mark them up to understand changes needed to be made. Not to mention folks with bifocals (even fancy transition without the lines) don't like tiny print on their screens. I don't like "wide" code, beyond 100 or so characters becomes hard to read.

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                          • B blackjack2150

                            Me too. Though, they are in xsd.exe auto-generated code files, based on xml schema files. A pain when I need to use those in my client code...

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                            Gary R Wheeler
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #63

                            The worst offenders for me are some resource ID's in my native code for STRINGTABLE resources:

                            #define IDS_Msg_Tnc_PageCorrelationSensor1PatternDifferenceExceeded 1243

                            Software Zen: delete this;
                            Fold With Us![^]

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                            • H Henry Minute

                              Another useful registry hack is: Under the HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Microsoft\VisualStudio\9.0 key, you can create a DWORD UseMRUDocOrdering = 1. What this does is, when you select a tab in the editor, that tab moves to be the leftmost tab. This obviously keeps the most recently used files/designers visible in the editor. Only the least used fall off the end. Works in VS2008, VS2005 and their express versions. I like it, anyway.

                              Henry Minute Do not read medical books! You could die of a misprint. - Mark Twain Girl: (staring) "Why do you need an icy cucumber?" “I want to report a fraud. The government is lying to us all.”

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                              Luc Pattyn
                              wrote on last edited by
                              #64

                              Hi Henry, thanks for the info. I'll give it a go, not sure I will ever get used to tabs hopping around though. :)

                              Luc Pattyn [Forum Guidelines] [My Articles]


                              The quality and detail of your question reflects on the effectiveness of the help you are likely to get. Show formatted code inside PRE tags, and give clear symptoms when describing a problem.


                              H 1 Reply Last reply
                              0
                              • H Henry Minute

                                Another useful registry hack is: Under the HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Microsoft\VisualStudio\9.0 key, you can create a DWORD UseMRUDocOrdering = 1. What this does is, when you select a tab in the editor, that tab moves to be the leftmost tab. This obviously keeps the most recently used files/designers visible in the editor. Only the least used fall off the end. Works in VS2008, VS2005 and their express versions. I like it, anyway.

                                Henry Minute Do not read medical books! You could die of a misprint. - Mark Twain Girl: (staring) "Why do you need an icy cucumber?" “I want to report a fraud. The government is lying to us all.”

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                                Kevin McFarlane
                                wrote on last edited by
                                #65

                                That looks useful. I may give it a try. :)

                                Kevin

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                                • L Luc Pattyn

                                  Hi Henry, thanks for the info. I'll give it a go, not sure I will ever get used to tabs hopping around though. :)

                                  Luc Pattyn [Forum Guidelines] [My Articles]


                                  The quality and detail of your question reflects on the effectiveness of the help you are likely to get. Show formatted code inside PRE tags, and give clear symptoms when describing a problem.


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                                  Henry Minute
                                  wrote on last edited by
                                  #66

                                  Luc Pattyn wrote:

                                  not sure I will ever get used to tabs hopping around though

                                  Yeah, I no longer notice it though. Thing is, if you don't like it, set the DWORD to 0, or delete it.

                                  Henry Minute Do not read medical books! You could die of a misprint. - Mark Twain Girl: (staring) "Why do you need an icy cucumber?" “I want to report a fraud. The government is lying to us all.”

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                                  • D Dr Walt Fair PE

                                    charlieg wrote:

                                    I'm one of those old geezers still writing code, dangerously close to the 3 decade mark.

                                    Youngster! I wrote my first program in 1967 (remember punch cards? ), so I'm working on my 5th decade. I usually try to keep my code on a normal screen or page, so I keep it around 80 characters wide, but sometimes I violate that guideline.

                                    CQ de W5ALT

                                    Walt Fair, Jr., P. E. Comport Computing Specializing in Technical Engineering Software

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                                    LenaBr
                                    wrote on last edited by
                                    #67

                                    hi 1968 - on punch cards but I was really typing Dad's cards and debuging his syntax while I was at university. Wrote my own first code in 1970 and my first job was on a UNIVAC 3 punch cards, truck, tape, paper tape ect. (truck was for the round trip to Toronto for test runns)

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                                    • U urbane tiger

                                      Monash University in Melbourne is one place to look - I think they have some oldish CDC kit and a Ferranti Sirius, Atlas' little brother. Sydney Uni Basser School of CompSci may have some old kit too left over from Csirac, which was a near clone of the original Univac, the former was built by CSIRO in the 50/60's - Basser inherited it (I think). IBM may have some working punched card gear somewhere. You might be even find a hand operated punch at least that would probably still work, try Ebay. Or you could ask the Governor of Florida, he/she may have one left over from the chad debacle of 2000 :-D . I think Atlas has been resurrected in part at least, presumably at Manchester or maybe its at the Science Museum in South Kensington along with Babbages Engine, and I think they may have put Colossus back together at Bletchley Park if you're over that way, and there's an Elliot machine at Bletchley too. The only analog system I ever got to play with for a few weeks was a one of Elliot's flight simulation systems that they bolted onto our 803 digital system in an attempt to solve a simulation problem, it didn't work - well at least not in the time frame our manager was demanding - you know I want it by lunchtime, today. Don't think it had punch cards though, potentiometers, capacitor sliders and a patch panel are what I remember. Mercury delay memory was good stuff, you could watch your program's scribbles. If we had it today then MS wouldn't need to ban memcpy from their code. Did anyone here work on Singer Link flight simulators. I had a flight in a Link F111 simulator up at Amberley in the late '70's, scary stuff because its physical, i.e. it shakes, rattles and rolls in real space & time; wonder if they're still working, if the F111's are still flying then they may be, worth a look if they'll let you in, they had two back then. Much more interesting that a punched card. And what about the Singer System 10, now that was a weird system, it had hardware decimal arithmetic as I recall, everything was in 10's, all data was written in blocks of a 100 six bit bytes, and you could have assembler or RPG. I always thought it bizarre that a sewing machine company should make things like flight simulators & decimal computers. Have fun

                                      Multi famam, conscientiam pauci verentur.(Pliny)

                                      modified on Monday, May 18, 2009 5:48 AM

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                                      Estherino
                                      wrote on last edited by
                                      #68

                                      Fantastic! Thanks Tiger!

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