good programmer
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Hows about this twisted logic: If you're not good at marketing, you're not good at communicating. If you're not good at communicating, you're never going to understand the user. If you can't understand the user, you're not a very good programmer. Ergo, they're not good programmers.
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You are right. It is a twisted logic :)
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Oh go on then. Try here[^], for a start (you missed this years event, but just hanging around the group mailing list is enough to start anyone learning. Most of the C++ Standards Committee hang around there, for a start. And how many web forums do you know that have a "compiler writers mentored learning group"...?). You can of course do the same here on CP, if you take the effort to step back from the code and learn the right techniques to improve how you do things rather than just staying in the IDE and coding. I would say however that even with 15 years commercial experience (and 8 years of being here, at that) I still didn't learn how to (for example) apply TDD and agile methods effectively until I got involved with ACCU 2 years ago. See? no unemployment necessary. :)
Anna :rose: Having a bad bug day? Tech Blog | Anna's Place | Tears and Laughter "If mushy peas are the food of the devil, the stotty cake is the frisbee of God"
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sometimes i thought to myself, for one to be really good programmer, you need to be unemployed. To get away from daily fire fighting, the long hours, the politics. Is it true, best programmers are generally unemployed? (I know one thing they can't be behind bars)
dev
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Oh go on then. Try here[^], for a start (you missed this years event, but just hanging around the group mailing list is enough to start anyone learning. Most of the C++ Standards Committee hang around there, for a start. And how many web forums do you know that have a "compiler writers mentored learning group"...?). You can of course do the same here on CP, if you take the effort to step back from the code and learn the right techniques to improve how you do things rather than just staying in the IDE and coding. I would say however that even with 15 years commercial experience (and 8 years of being here, at that) I still didn't learn how to (for example) apply TDD and agile methods effectively until I got involved with ACCU 2 years ago. See? no unemployment necessary. :)
Anna :rose: Having a bad bug day? Tech Blog | Anna's Place | Tears and Laughter "If mushy peas are the food of the devil, the stotty cake is the frisbee of God"
but you're redefining unemployment and confusing it with not-having-nothin-todo. that said, work is keeping me awake far too many hours than i should be, falling behind in certain places (WCF JSON to be specific... at the moment).kept thinking i want to spend a few hours trying out EasyHook just never get the chance. i'm a tired man, beaten down and tired.
dev
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No. You might care to think about being a software engineer instead of a programmer though.
Visit http://www.notreadytogiveup.com/[^] and do something special today.
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sometimes i thought to myself, for one to be really good programmer, you need to be unemployed. To get away from daily fire fighting, the long hours, the politics. Is it true, best programmers are generally unemployed? (I know one thing they can't be behind bars)
dev
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but you're redefining unemployment and confusing it with not-having-nothin-todo. that said, work is keeping me awake far too many hours than i should be, falling behind in certain places (WCF JSON to be specific... at the moment).kept thinking i want to spend a few hours trying out EasyHook just never get the chance. i'm a tired man, beaten down and tired.
dev
And you think I wasn't working when I was learning? I run my own company, and believe me it's easily a 60 hour a week job keeping on top of everything... Prior to that I was working full time and learning. No different other than shorter hours, really. If you are tired, you may want to take a step back and look at how your day runs. I've found a decent diet, regular exercise (I run for at least half an hour most days) and better time management makes up for a lot. Even with 2 hrs of commuting a day (which I don't have to do now, thankfully) I was still able to keep learning at quite a rate. If I can do that while coping with a (very regular, unfortunately) 3 day migraine once a month, I'm sure you can find a way somehow. :)
Anna :rose: Having a bad bug day? Tech Blog | Anna's Place | Tears and Laughter "If mushy peas are the food of the devil, the stotty cake is the frisbee of God"
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sometimes i thought to myself, for one to be really good programmer, you need to be unemployed. To get away from daily fire fighting, the long hours, the politics. Is it true, best programmers are generally unemployed? (I know one thing they can't be behind bars)
dev
devvvy wrote:
To get away from daily fire fighting, the long hours, the politics.
May be good programmers don't work at such places.
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And you think I wasn't working when I was learning? I run my own company, and believe me it's easily a 60 hour a week job keeping on top of everything... Prior to that I was working full time and learning. No different other than shorter hours, really. If you are tired, you may want to take a step back and look at how your day runs. I've found a decent diet, regular exercise (I run for at least half an hour most days) and better time management makes up for a lot. Even with 2 hrs of commuting a day (which I don't have to do now, thankfully) I was still able to keep learning at quite a rate. If I can do that while coping with a (very regular, unfortunately) 3 day migraine once a month, I'm sure you can find a way somehow. :)
Anna :rose: Having a bad bug day? Tech Blog | Anna's Place | Tears and Laughter "If mushy peas are the food of the devil, the stotty cake is the frisbee of God"
i am not a workaholic, for the most part it's involuntary really and so-many-hours-week is just hypnotically mechanical. Diet... I think i been taking in too many microwave meals. My wife vegan, she gave up trying to convince me of the importance of healthy diet. I have a better routine than her when it comes to exercise though. But suppose I just need to take a day off. thanks anna
dev
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devvvy wrote:
To get away from daily fire fighting, the long hours, the politics.
May be good programmers don't work at such places.
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sometimes i thought to myself, for one to be really good programmer, you need to be unemployed. To get away from daily fire fighting, the long hours, the politics. Is it true, best programmers are generally unemployed? (I know one thing they can't be behind bars)
dev
I look at programming alot like Cooking. You are putting together something from nothing/ bits of " ingredents" you have; Add in 2 parts style, 1 part experience. Stir in a user interface till recognizable. Constantly "taste" your application/ webpage until you are satisified. Serve with Satisifaction knowing you did your best. Ok, that is the short of it. But honestly, just like with anything in life, " It's what you make of it." Thus spake the master programmer: ``A well-written program is its own heaven; a poorly-written program is its own hell.''
///////////////// Groucho Marx Those are my principals, if you don't like them… I have others.
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that's right, that's why the one and only skill we really need is Communication! (that makes us a very chatty nation good at nothing else is it?)
dev
devvvy wrote:
that's right, that's why the one and only skill we really need is Communication!
Nope. That was a clumsy use of a strawman. It is an essential skill, however.
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You are right. It is a twisted logic :)
Nemanja Trifunovic wrote:
You are right. It is a twisted logic
You should see my code, it would blow your mind ;)
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Oh go on then. Try here[^], for a start (you missed this years event, but just hanging around the group mailing list is enough to start anyone learning. Most of the C++ Standards Committee hang around there, for a start. And how many web forums do you know that have a "compiler writers mentored learning group"...?). You can of course do the same here on CP, if you take the effort to step back from the code and learn the right techniques to improve how you do things rather than just staying in the IDE and coding. I would say however that even with 15 years commercial experience (and 8 years of being here, at that) I still didn't learn how to (for example) apply TDD and agile methods effectively until I got involved with ACCU 2 years ago. See? no unemployment necessary. :)
Anna :rose: Having a bad bug day? Tech Blog | Anna's Place | Tears and Laughter "If mushy peas are the food of the devil, the stotty cake is the frisbee of God"
Anna-Jayne Metcalfe wrote:
I still didn't learn how to (for example) apply TDD and agile methods effectively until I got involved with ACCU 2 years ago
Strange thing is, I've leant how NOT to apply agile and TDD by contracting with some 'agile' companies :D
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i am not a workaholic, for the most part it's involuntary really and so-many-hours-week is just hypnotically mechanical. Diet... I think i been taking in too many microwave meals. My wife vegan, she gave up trying to convince me of the importance of healthy diet. I have a better routine than her when it comes to exercise though. But suppose I just need to take a day off. thanks anna
dev
Anytime. I usually find that when something is obviously wrong, taking a step back and looking at things with an open mind is a good first step to fixing things. Good luck! :rose:
Anna :rose: Having a bad bug day? Tech Blog | Anna's Place | Tears and Laughter "If mushy peas are the food of the devil, the stotty cake is the frisbee of God"
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Anna-Jayne Metcalfe wrote:
I still didn't learn how to (for example) apply TDD and agile methods effectively until I got involved with ACCU 2 years ago
Strange thing is, I've leant how NOT to apply agile and TDD by contracting with some 'agile' companies :D
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I bet. Rule of thumb: if a company calls themselves "agile", they probably aren't. Score them on their answers to the Joel test instead. ;)
Anna :rose: Having a bad bug day? Tech Blog | Anna's Place | Tears and Laughter "If mushy peas are the food of the devil, the stotty cake is the frisbee of God"
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sometimes i thought to myself, for one to be really good programmer, you need to be unemployed. To get away from daily fire fighting, the long hours, the politics. Is it true, best programmers are generally unemployed? (I know one thing they can't be behind bars)
dev
Well you are absolutely right: good programmers run their own business, like me! ;P Hehe seriously, you do have a point there, and one for which I feel quite a lot! Long ago I made my decision not to work for those "long hours+politics+fire fighting" projects, cause they will just destroy one's life AND one's passion for coding. Running my own small software house and choosing medium sized, interesting projects is leaving me a fair amount of free time for my hobbies (programming, coding and developing... ^^) and for enjoying life with my wonderful wife and my friends. I hope I can keep it going till the end! Well it worked for the last 15 years, so let's hope. :)
2+2=5 for very large amounts of 2 (always loved that one hehe!)
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devvvy wrote:
err... so by same token Bush was elected.
I didn't know Bush was a programmer. :rolleyes:
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