very general question ...
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_Damian S_ wrote:
Unless you have some money behind you (eg: your partner works, or you have a day job, or you have substantial cash in the bank), you are crazy to go out and start your own business unless you have some clients lined up already.
I will agree that insanity certainly helps in making the jump! :-D I personally consider it unethical to be on a payroll and go looking for other work without the express consent of my employer, so I never did that. I did look around, but I never lined up any work until after I formally left employment. To do otherwise would have been in violation of my employer's confidence and also just plain unprofessional.
_Damian S_ wrote:
The one thing that we all do (I suppose) is assume that once we have our business name registered, perhaps a nice website, or a nice ad in some print media somewhere, business is going to magically fall from the sky and land in our lap... I've not found this to be the case at all - well over 90% of my business comes from word of mouth.
That's certainly true! One thing I learned was that my business plans never worked out the way I thought they would, but as long as I was out and around, working and making contacts and staying in touch with clients, something always came through. The secret is getting started, staying flexible, not giving up too easily, having enough cash to survive, and keeping up the marketing efforts no matter what.
CQ de W5ALT
Walt Fair, Jr., P. E. Comport Computing Specializing in Technical Engineering Software
Walt Fair, Jr. wrote:
other work without the express consent of my employer
It depends if it presents a conflict of interest or not... if your day job is driving a delivery van while you are trying to get your software development company off the ground, I don't see how it's an issue. If you are hired out as a resource by a body shop, and you hit up the company you are working for to go direct - that would be a clear conflict of interest and highly unethical!
Knowledge is knowing that the tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is not putting it in fruit salad!! Booger Mobile - Camp Quality esCarpade 2010
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but I get the impression most startup do take people's life's saving, including retirement money. Good for you you didn't
dev
I would say that only applies to people who don't do proper planning. In my case I planned long in advance of going off on my own. The first time was 5 years in the planning stage, this time was well over 2 years of planning. When I left work, my total investment was 1 new computer and 1 chair for my office - everything else was already ready to go. Planning and patience goes a long way. Lack of planning, naivete and impatience will be extremely expensive.
CQ de W5ALT
Walt Fair, Jr., P. E. Comport Computing Specializing in Technical Engineering Software
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I would say that only applies to people who don't do proper planning. In my case I planned long in advance of going off on my own. The first time was 5 years in the planning stage, this time was well over 2 years of planning. When I left work, my total investment was 1 new computer and 1 chair for my office - everything else was already ready to go. Planning and patience goes a long way. Lack of planning, naivete and impatience will be extremely expensive.
CQ de W5ALT
Walt Fair, Jr., P. E. Comport Computing Specializing in Technical Engineering Software
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Walt Fair, Jr. wrote:
other work without the express consent of my employer
It depends if it presents a conflict of interest or not... if your day job is driving a delivery van while you are trying to get your software development company off the ground, I don't see how it's an issue. If you are hired out as a resource by a body shop, and you hit up the company you are working for to go direct - that would be a clear conflict of interest and highly unethical!
Knowledge is knowing that the tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is not putting it in fruit salad!! Booger Mobile - Camp Quality esCarpade 2010
_Damian S_ wrote:
It depends if it presents a conflict of interest or not...
Yes, you're right. In my cases there would have been conflicts of interest, since I was being paid to do professional work. If one is not working in the same endeavors that they are planning for their business, then things might be different.
CQ de W5ALT
Walt Fair, Jr., P. E. Comport Computing Specializing in Technical Engineering Software
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yes but apart from your computer did you have to quit your job? otherwise how can you manage
dev
devvvy wrote:
how can you manage
You bite the bullet and just do it!! When I started mine, I had a massive mortgage, was married with a child and another on the way, and my wife didn't work... Talk about pressure to succeed!!
Knowledge is knowing that the tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is not putting it in fruit salad!! Booger Mobile - Camp Quality esCarpade 2010
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yes but apart from your computer did you have to quit your job? otherwise how can you manage
dev
Yes, I had to quit my job. To offer my professional services while employed to perform the same professional services would have been highly unethical. As I said, the jump was several years in the planning, mainly to ensure the market was there and I had enough savings to not starve or live too uncomfortably while getting the business up to speed. So far so good, but I'll let you know in about 2 more years whether my planning was adequate. ;P
CQ de W5ALT
Walt Fair, Jr., P. E. Comport Computing Specializing in Technical Engineering Software
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devvvy wrote:
how can you manage
You bite the bullet and just do it!! When I started mine, I had a massive mortgage, was married with a child and another on the way, and my wife didn't work... Talk about pressure to succeed!!
Knowledge is knowing that the tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is not putting it in fruit salad!! Booger Mobile - Camp Quality esCarpade 2010
No joke! The first time I was a single parent with 3 teenagers, a mortgage, etc. Talk about pressure! This time ... Piece of cake ...
CQ de W5ALT
Walt Fair, Jr., P. E. Comport Computing Specializing in Technical Engineering Software
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Yes, I had to quit my job. To offer my professional services while employed to perform the same professional services would have been highly unethical. As I said, the jump was several years in the planning, mainly to ensure the market was there and I had enough savings to not starve or live too uncomfortably while getting the business up to speed. So far so good, but I'll let you know in about 2 more years whether my planning was adequate. ;P
CQ de W5ALT
Walt Fair, Jr., P. E. Comport Computing Specializing in Technical Engineering Software
Mine is seven years old and going strong, so I must be doing something right!!
Knowledge is knowing that the tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is not putting it in fruit salad!! Booger Mobile - Camp Quality esCarpade 2010
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six months is half year's paycheck. Spoke to my best friend who just started early last year before the storm. He spent his whole life's saving on it. But breakeven now. Is it true, that most startup costs a person's life's saving for most guys?
dev
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for those of you who've started your own business, how much have you invested (perhaps in mandays if not in USD) before you get the first pay check or transaction? I mean real business that at least break-even with reasonable return - I suppose this exclude those selling on ebay or "web-design-consulting-for-ya-mom-&-pap" (sorry I know if this question sounds to generic)
dev
I started out with a little gravy on the side and then shopped around for contracts until I found one that I liked. Leverage your recruiter network if you don't know anyone. I was upfront and honest that I was looking for something that would allow me to grow my business and those guys have been great. To be honest, this was my first interview I had when I started looking (why look a gift horse in the mouth). I started software consulting so the costs were minimal: MSDN license (google[^]) & a very nice piece of hardware. All in all, less than I pay for daycare a year. But, I did have to wait 2 months to get my first paycheck. Once I got that, I was in the green. No lifestyles of the rich or famous yet. Just keep swimming... Just keep swimming...
Wes A picture is worth a thousand words but it takes 3,000 times the disk space. ~Author Unknown My Site
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Mine is seven years old and going strong, so I must be doing something right!!
Knowledge is knowing that the tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is not putting it in fruit salad!! Booger Mobile - Camp Quality esCarpade 2010
Yeah, if you made it that long, you must be doing OK. I went about 10 years the first time before I just got too busy and too tired. I decided I had to cut back my efforts somewhere and rather than hire employees, etc., I just went to work for one of my clients. When I cranked the numbers, the tax burden of hiring employees made it a no-brainer.
CQ de W5ALT
Walt Fair, Jr., P. E. Comport Computing Specializing in Technical Engineering Software
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for those of you who've started your own business, how much have you invested (perhaps in mandays if not in USD) before you get the first pay check or transaction? I mean real business that at least break-even with reasonable return - I suppose this exclude those selling on ebay or "web-design-consulting-for-ya-mom-&-pap" (sorry I know if this question sounds to generic)
dev
Hoo boy, talk about a loaded question. The answer for most IT companies would be "it depends" (if not most companies). In some cases, these factors are outside your control - how quickly the client pays, planned work that gets bumped by clients. In other cases, it's down to how large your initial projects are - and what payment plans you get put in place. Some thoughts to ponder: Do you get paid at delivery stages? Are you paid only on completion? Is this a 24 month project, or a 1 month one? What are you going to do if the client refuses to pay? What are you going to do if your client goes bust?
"WPF has many lovers. It's a veritable porn star!" - Josh Smith
As Braveheart once said, "You can take our freedom but you'll never take our Hobnobs!" - Martin Hughes.
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for those of you who've started your own business, how much have you invested (perhaps in mandays if not in USD) before you get the first pay check or transaction? I mean real business that at least break-even with reasonable return - I suppose this exclude those selling on ebay or "web-design-consulting-for-ya-mom-&-pap" (sorry I know if this question sounds to generic)
dev
started an audio site in january and still building it. i put in about 20 hours/week.
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for those of you who've started your own business, how much have you invested (perhaps in mandays if not in USD) before you get the first pay check or transaction? I mean real business that at least break-even with reasonable return - I suppose this exclude those selling on ebay or "web-design-consulting-for-ya-mom-&-pap" (sorry I know if this question sounds to generic)
dev
I made sure I had a couple of projects to work on before starting my own business, so it started paying off right after the first month. The money I put in it was basically what's needed to buy the basic hardware, my office was (and still is) set in a room at my place, in order to reduce costs. I dunno how it works in your country, but in Italy it's extremely risky to start a business if you're not sure it's going to succeed in a reasonably short time, since taxes would just kill you. :P
2+2=5 for very large amounts of 2 (always loved that one hehe!)
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Hoo boy, talk about a loaded question. The answer for most IT companies would be "it depends" (if not most companies). In some cases, these factors are outside your control - how quickly the client pays, planned work that gets bumped by clients. In other cases, it's down to how large your initial projects are - and what payment plans you get put in place. Some thoughts to ponder: Do you get paid at delivery stages? Are you paid only on completion? Is this a 24 month project, or a 1 month one? What are you going to do if the client refuses to pay? What are you going to do if your client goes bust?
"WPF has many lovers. It's a veritable porn star!" - Josh Smith
As Braveheart once said, "You can take our freedom but you'll never take our Hobnobs!" - Martin Hughes.
-
for those of you who've started your own business, how much have you invested (perhaps in mandays if not in USD) before you get the first pay check or transaction? I mean real business that at least break-even with reasonable return - I suppose this exclude those selling on ebay or "web-design-consulting-for-ya-mom-&-pap" (sorry I know if this question sounds to generic)
dev
But my business is my-labor intensive so it sucks. I am working on something now that removes my labor but will require about $45,000 U.S.D. of personal investment plus my time. That is really the bottom-line, you either invest labor, capital, or both but if you are only investing labor you will likely always be investing labor and time is the only thing you can never get back.
Need custom software developed? I do C# development and consulting all over the United States. A man said to the universe: "Sir I exist!" "However," replied the universe, "The fact has not created in me A sense of obligation." --Stephen Crane
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But my business is my-labor intensive so it sucks. I am working on something now that removes my labor but will require about $45,000 U.S.D. of personal investment plus my time. That is really the bottom-line, you either invest labor, capital, or both but if you are only investing labor you will likely always be investing labor and time is the only thing you can never get back.
Need custom software developed? I do C# development and consulting all over the United States. A man said to the universe: "Sir I exist!" "However," replied the universe, "The fact has not created in me A sense of obligation." --Stephen Crane
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devvvy wrote:
including retirement money
Not if they are sensible... That's how you end up bankrupt if something goes wrong!!
Knowledge is knowing that the tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is not putting it in fruit salad!! Booger Mobile - Camp Quality esCarpade 2010
_Damian S_ wrote:
That's how you end up bankrupt if something goes wrong!!
It happens
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yes but apart from your computer did you have to quit your job? otherwise how can you manage
dev
I'll explain how to manage. I live in Boston. A large part of the population earn $10/hr. in retail or entry-level jobs. It is easy to live for $1500/month. $500 for rent, $150 for car, $500 for food, the rest for whatever. Lots of people do it. Software engineers take home $4000 to $6000 per month after taxes. So, if you don't buy into the consumerist culture and pressure to rent a $2000/month loft like your colleagues, you can easily work a year and take two years off to start a business. The double benefit of living cheaply is that it takes much less to bring your business to sustainability. You only need to find an average of 8 hours of consulting work per week and it's enough to live on. Anything above that is like a bonus. If you really only get 8 hours a week of work, you can spend all your free time developing your own projects and maybe sell a cool program or invest your time into forming a startup that's not just a consultancy. Having children makes all that different, but I'd assume you have a husband or wife who could work in that case.
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but I get the impression most startup do take people's life's saving, including retirement money. Good for you you didn't
dev
That happens most often when the person in question has had too much optimism and too little preparation.