Temper
-
We want peace without Patriot missiles, Blown to bits are civilian targets, Parade! Laugh! Rejoice! Sing! We are the victors of...nothing, Spend more money on a war, Your people starving, turned to whores, Slaves of the chosen one paying millions for each bomb, Country without a race , Formed from people you disgrace , White right conservative might , Killers of Kennedy's with no fright , The American way! Freedom cried the marching man, Flags ripped out of their black hands , Beaten! Slain! Tortured! Killed! Their only mistake was being born here , Invade countries just for oil , Send your troops all down to boil , Iraq! Grenada! Nam and Chile! Truman doctrine our own way , Country without a race , Formed from people you disgrace , White right conservative might , Killers of Kennedy's with no fright , The American way! The Government here can suck my balls , Policing the world in overalls , Armed rebellion minority , Disrespected race, colored mind , Crazed loonies all walk the streets , Missing children on milk cartons , Mother selling child for crack , Mr. President check you back , Country without a race , Formed from people you disgrace, White right conservative might , Killers of Kennedy's with no fright , The American way! The American way! The American way! Temper, System Of A Down Talk.
David Wulff http://www.davidwulff.co.uk
TOTD: Doubleclicking a personalised menu will remove the personalisation.
Flame me! Flame me! :laugh: You just love asking for trouble, doncha David? I'm not going to bite particularly, I'll let others do that. I quite like System of a Down, to be honest. But they are entertainment and some of their lyrics are deliberately over the top because that's what sells... or at least used to. Interesting point about their Toxicity CD: it was apparently the number one selling CD on Sept 10 2001. On Sept 12, the band posts a message on their web site (which incidentally is probably the best designed official band sites on earth) saying that it was all very terrible but that the US was "reaping what it sowed" (figuring assumedly that this is what their rebellious fans would want to hear). This was an ill-calculated mistake on their part. They didn't predict the excessive US surge in patriotism and it pretty much killed their sales until very recently. Paul
-
We want peace without Patriot missiles, Blown to bits are civilian targets, Parade! Laugh! Rejoice! Sing! We are the victors of...nothing, Spend more money on a war, Your people starving, turned to whores, Slaves of the chosen one paying millions for each bomb, Country without a race , Formed from people you disgrace , White right conservative might , Killers of Kennedy's with no fright , The American way! Freedom cried the marching man, Flags ripped out of their black hands , Beaten! Slain! Tortured! Killed! Their only mistake was being born here , Invade countries just for oil , Send your troops all down to boil , Iraq! Grenada! Nam and Chile! Truman doctrine our own way , Country without a race , Formed from people you disgrace , White right conservative might , Killers of Kennedy's with no fright , The American way! The Government here can suck my balls , Policing the world in overalls , Armed rebellion minority , Disrespected race, colored mind , Crazed loonies all walk the streets , Missing children on milk cartons , Mother selling child for crack , Mr. President check you back , Country without a race , Formed from people you disgrace, White right conservative might , Killers of Kennedy's with no fright , The American way! The American way! The American way! Temper, System Of A Down Talk.
David Wulff http://www.davidwulff.co.uk
TOTD: Doubleclicking a personalised menu will remove the personalisation.
Anyone could write a song full of such tripe. Only idiots listen and believe without proof.
Jason Henderson
start page
articles
"If you are going through hell, keep going." - Sir Winston Churchill -
Anyone could write a song full of such tripe. Only idiots listen and believe without proof.
Jason Henderson
start page
articles
"If you are going through hell, keep going." - Sir Winston ChurchillJason Henderson wrote: Anyone could write a song full of such tripe. Only idiots listen and believe without proof. Whilst I don't entirely disagree with this (I don't think anyone could write it, it's particularly well written tripe)... the same could be said of government hype. Anyone could write one of Bush's speeches. Only idiots listen and believe without proof. ;) Paul
-
Jason Henderson wrote: Anyone could write a song full of such tripe. Only idiots listen and believe without proof. Whilst I don't entirely disagree with this (I don't think anyone could write it, it's particularly well written tripe)... the same could be said of government hype. Anyone could write one of Bush's speeches. Only idiots listen and believe without proof. ;) Paul
Paul Riley wrote: Anyone could write one of Bush's speeches. Only idiots listen and believe without proof. I agree. But why should you believe these guys anymore than Dubya? What makes them experts? They sound like a bunch of conspiracy theorist nutcases to me.
Jason Henderson
start page
articles
"If you are going through hell, keep going." - Sir Winston Churchill -
Paul Riley wrote: Anyone could write one of Bush's speeches. Only idiots listen and believe without proof. I agree. But why should you believe these guys anymore than Dubya? What makes them experts? They sound like a bunch of conspiracy theorist nutcases to me.
Jason Henderson
start page
articles
"If you are going through hell, keep going." - Sir Winston ChurchillJason Henderson wrote: But why should you believe these guys anymore than Dubya? How about because what they say is true? You could choose to replace America with any of a number of world powers both modern and past and it would still be true.* Hurts doesn't it. * obviously you may need to change the specific references, but I guess you can figure that part out. And yes I am including Britain in that list; she is no exception.
David Wulff http://www.davidwulff.co.uk
TOTD: Doubleclicking a personalised menu will remove the personalisation.
-
Paul Riley wrote: Anyone could write one of Bush's speeches. Only idiots listen and believe without proof. I agree. But why should you believe these guys anymore than Dubya? What makes them experts? They sound like a bunch of conspiracy theorist nutcases to me.
Jason Henderson
start page
articles
"If you are going through hell, keep going." - Sir Winston ChurchillJason Henderson wrote: But why should you believe these guys anymore than Dubya? I wouldn't; nor would I take Dubya a whole lot more seriously than a rock band ;). Just because I listen to a music, doesn't mean I absorb it without question. When it comes down to it, both opinions (SoaD and GW) are very biased and very extreme. Jason Henderson wrote: What makes them experts? They sound like a bunch of conspiracy theorist nutcases to me. Not entirely fair. They are from Jordan and Armenia, they have seen the Middle East from a different (but equally biased) viewpoint from what we have. I'd seriously suggest visiting the web site: System of a Down[^] It's a really well-designed site and offers a very in-depth view of the world from their eyes. It does read a little like a conspiracy page at times and should be taken with the thought in mind that they make money from being controversial (again, top selling album pre-9/11 -- you wouldn't expect Eminem to speak out on a web-site about how he isn't quite the bad-boy he proclaims to be). But it's always interesting to pay attention to both extremes and the moderates. Never dismiss information, however invalid it may seem at first glance. Paul
-
Paul Riley wrote: Anyone could write one of Bush's speeches. Only idiots listen and believe without proof. I agree. But why should you believe these guys anymore than Dubya? What makes them experts? They sound like a bunch of conspiracy theorist nutcases to me.
Jason Henderson
start page
articles
"If you are going through hell, keep going." - Sir Winston ChurchillJason Henderson wrote: What makes them experts? fortunately, you don't have to be an expert to voice your opinion. (Note: any wise-ass comments about the abundance of opinions on the internet will only prove this point :) ) besides, Bush and Co. are all professional politicians, it is expected that whenever they open their mouth, pandering and spin will ooze out. believing anything they say is an exercise in spin-filtering. at least with musicians you can generally take what they say at face value; however unpleasant you find the words, you don't need to suspect they were paid for in order to support some agenda (besides the musician's own need to sell records). but most importantly, musicians don't control our tax dollars. :) -c
As always, it's bread and circuses. And while bread is down right now, circuses are way up.
-
Jason Henderson wrote: What makes them experts? fortunately, you don't have to be an expert to voice your opinion. (Note: any wise-ass comments about the abundance of opinions on the internet will only prove this point :) ) besides, Bush and Co. are all professional politicians, it is expected that whenever they open their mouth, pandering and spin will ooze out. believing anything they say is an exercise in spin-filtering. at least with musicians you can generally take what they say at face value; however unpleasant you find the words, you don't need to suspect they were paid for in order to support some agenda (besides the musician's own need to sell records). but most importantly, musicians don't control our tax dollars. :) -c
As always, it's bread and circuses. And while bread is down right now, circuses are way up.
Chris Losinger wrote: it is expected that whenever they open their mouth, pandering and spin will ooze out Agreed, but I find them slightly more trustworthy than past politicians. Chris Losinger wrote: however unpleasant you find the words, you don't need to suspect they were paid for in order to support some agenda Just because someone is a politician does not mean they were paid for. There are probably some decent ones (i hope). Also, musicians/entertainers do have agendas based on their own beliefs so why should I trust them anymore than a politician? We should all be sceptics but not total freaks who believe everything a certain group says. We need to learn to think out our opinions rather than repeating the opinions of others.
Jason Henderson
start page
articles
"If you are going through hell, keep going." - Sir Winston Churchill -
Jason Henderson wrote: But why should you believe these guys anymore than Dubya? I wouldn't; nor would I take Dubya a whole lot more seriously than a rock band ;). Just because I listen to a music, doesn't mean I absorb it without question. When it comes down to it, both opinions (SoaD and GW) are very biased and very extreme. Jason Henderson wrote: What makes them experts? They sound like a bunch of conspiracy theorist nutcases to me. Not entirely fair. They are from Jordan and Armenia, they have seen the Middle East from a different (but equally biased) viewpoint from what we have. I'd seriously suggest visiting the web site: System of a Down[^] It's a really well-designed site and offers a very in-depth view of the world from their eyes. It does read a little like a conspiracy page at times and should be taken with the thought in mind that they make money from being controversial (again, top selling album pre-9/11 -- you wouldn't expect Eminem to speak out on a web-site about how he isn't quite the bad-boy he proclaims to be). But it's always interesting to pay attention to both extremes and the moderates. Never dismiss information, however invalid it may seem at first glance. Paul
I agree totally. Its just that we shouldn't except these guys as credible anymore than Dubya.
Jason Henderson
start page
articles
"If you are going through hell, keep going." - Sir Winston Churchill -
Paul Riley wrote: Anyone could write one of Bush's speeches. Only idiots listen and believe without proof. I agree. But why should you believe these guys anymore than Dubya? What makes them experts? They sound like a bunch of conspiracy theorist nutcases to me.
Jason Henderson
start page
articles
"If you are going through hell, keep going." - Sir Winston Churchill -
Chris Losinger wrote: it is expected that whenever they open their mouth, pandering and spin will ooze out Agreed, but I find them slightly more trustworthy than past politicians. Chris Losinger wrote: however unpleasant you find the words, you don't need to suspect they were paid for in order to support some agenda Just because someone is a politician does not mean they were paid for. There are probably some decent ones (i hope). Also, musicians/entertainers do have agendas based on their own beliefs so why should I trust them anymore than a politician? We should all be sceptics but not total freaks who believe everything a certain group says. We need to learn to think out our opinions rather than repeating the opinions of others.
Jason Henderson
start page
articles
"If you are going through hell, keep going." - Sir Winston ChurchillJason Henderson wrote: Also, musicians/entertainers do have agendas based on their own beliefs so why should I trust them anymore than a politician? because musicains don't have bombs, police, spies, laws and our tax dollars. i'm not saying you should believe them (we agree on that). i'm just saying with a musician, you can take them or leave them, but you don't have to worry about who's pulling the strings. -c
As always, it's bread and circuses. And while bread is down right now, circuses are way up.
-
I agree totally. Its just that we shouldn't except these guys as credible anymore than Dubya.
Jason Henderson
start page
articles
"If you are going through hell, keep going." - Sir Winston ChurchillJason Henderson wrote: I agree totally. Its just that we shouldn't except these guys as credible anymore than Dubya. Sure. The only problem is that these guys have no power with which to control the political shape of the world and that makes them a whole lot less scary than the Shrub. Remember that those who listen and agree with everything they say probably already agree with them before they ever listen to the music. And they do write some kick-ass toons :-D Paul
-
Jason Henderson wrote: But why should you believe these guys anymore than Dubya? How about because what they say is true? You could choose to replace America with any of a number of world powers both modern and past and it would still be true.* Hurts doesn't it. * obviously you may need to change the specific references, but I guess you can figure that part out. And yes I am including Britain in that list; she is no exception.
David Wulff http://www.davidwulff.co.uk
TOTD: Doubleclicking a personalised menu will remove the personalisation.
Racism: A problem everywhere. Fortunately, a majority of white people don't practice it anymore so why lump all of America into the racist stereotype. War: Every country has a right to self defense. Iraq invaded Kuwait, so we helped them. In Grenada, American medical students where being held, so we freed them. Policing the World: I'm all for stopping. Let the UN and Europe handle their own problems. "Crazed loonies all walk the streets" - another generalization which isn't true everywhere in America. "Missing children on milk cartons" - this is a good thing. we're tryin to find them. "Mother selling child for crack " - there are some screwed up people but America isn't filled with them. David Wulff wrote: Hurts doesn't it. We have problems but its nothing the rest of the world doesn't experience.
Jason Henderson
start page
articles
"If you are going through hell, keep going." - Sir Winston Churchill -
Jason Henderson wrote: I agree totally. Its just that we shouldn't except these guys as credible anymore than Dubya. Sure. The only problem is that these guys have no power with which to control the political shape of the world and that makes them a whole lot less scary than the Shrub. Remember that those who listen and agree with everything they say probably already agree with them before they ever listen to the music. And they do write some kick-ass toons :-D Paul
Paul Riley wrote: these guys have no power with which to control the political shape of the world They do have power over their listeners, they just don't have bombs. Ever hear that the pen is mightier than the sword?
Jason Henderson
start page
articles
"If you are going through hell, keep going." - Sir Winston Churchill -
Jason Henderson wrote: Also, musicians/entertainers do have agendas based on their own beliefs so why should I trust them anymore than a politician? because musicains don't have bombs, police, spies, laws and our tax dollars. i'm not saying you should believe them (we agree on that). i'm just saying with a musician, you can take them or leave them, but you don't have to worry about who's pulling the strings. -c
As always, it's bread and circuses. And while bread is down right now, circuses are way up.
Musicians do have some influence, so if they lie to spread their agenda they are just as bad as a politician.
Jason Henderson
start page
articles
"If you are going through hell, keep going." - Sir Winston Churchill -
Just because they are nuts they still might be right ;)
Auch den Schatten will ich lieben weil ich manchmal lieber frier' Rosenstolz [sighist]
You can believe a nut but I won't. :)
Jason Henderson
start page
articles
"If you are going through hell, keep going." - Sir Winston Churchill -
Musicians do have some influence, so if they lie to spread their agenda they are just as bad as a politician.
Jason Henderson
start page
articles
"If you are going through hell, keep going." - Sir Winston Churchill -
Paul Riley wrote: these guys have no power with which to control the political shape of the world They do have power over their listeners, they just don't have bombs. Ever hear that the pen is mightier than the sword?
Jason Henderson
start page
articles
"If you are going through hell, keep going." - Sir Winston ChurchillJason Henderson wrote: They do have power over their listeners, they just don't have bombs. But their listeners don't have bombs either. I doubt GW is a big System of a Down fan, if you know what I mean :). I think you overestimate the power music has over people. People simply listen to the kind of music that appeals to their sensibilities. Thus a statistical study will usually show a predeliction to follow the message in the music but that's not entirely accurate. Take violent video games and movies for example. These often get blamed for making people more violent. Not true. People with violent tendencies will play violent video games and watch violent movies, thus skewing any statistical analysis. The rest of us take it as entertainment, escape from reality for a while, then go home and act no differently. The same applies to music. David listens to System of a Down and takes the words seriously. This is not because he's stupid or believing blindly in the words of a rock band. This is because he's already made an informed decision as to where he stands and it happens to tally with what SoaD are saying. I listen to SoaD because I love the music, not because I take them particularly seriously. You don't listen to it because it actually offends your sensibilities. Do you really think that if you did listen to it then you'd change your mind? (if so then maybe you should :-D) You could argue that music, TV and video games have some effect over young children and that would be true to a point. But would you really rather those children only ever got to hear one point of view? Who's point of view would that be? Is your opinion any more valid than David's? Paul
-
Jason Henderson wrote: They do have power over their listeners, they just don't have bombs. But their listeners don't have bombs either. I doubt GW is a big System of a Down fan, if you know what I mean :). I think you overestimate the power music has over people. People simply listen to the kind of music that appeals to their sensibilities. Thus a statistical study will usually show a predeliction to follow the message in the music but that's not entirely accurate. Take violent video games and movies for example. These often get blamed for making people more violent. Not true. People with violent tendencies will play violent video games and watch violent movies, thus skewing any statistical analysis. The rest of us take it as entertainment, escape from reality for a while, then go home and act no differently. The same applies to music. David listens to System of a Down and takes the words seriously. This is not because he's stupid or believing blindly in the words of a rock band. This is because he's already made an informed decision as to where he stands and it happens to tally with what SoaD are saying. I listen to SoaD because I love the music, not because I take them particularly seriously. You don't listen to it because it actually offends your sensibilities. Do you really think that if you did listen to it then you'd change your mind? (if so then maybe you should :-D) You could argue that music, TV and video games have some effect over young children and that would be true to a point. But would you really rather those children only ever got to hear one point of view? Who's point of view would that be? Is your opinion any more valid than David's? Paul
Paul Riley wrote: I think you overestimate the power music has over people. I listen to music and am not swayed, but others are. Some people watch violent tv and go shoot up a restaurant. I'm not blaming the musician or the tv show writer. It's the irrational person that they influence that should be blamed. Paul Riley wrote: David listens to System of a Down and takes the words seriously. This is not because he's stupid or believing blindly in the words of a rock band. This is because he's already made an informed decision as to where he stands How do you know it is an informed decision? Think about. Do you think GWB is really out to rule the world? If he want the oil for his buddies, why didn't Bush Sr. take it in '90? All I'm saying is don't be so gullible. Paul Riley wrote: Is your opinion any more valid than David's? Of course. ;P
Jason Henderson
start page
articles
"If you are going through hell, keep going." - Sir Winston Churchill -
Jason Henderson wrote: Also, musicians/entertainers do have agendas based on their own beliefs so why should I trust them anymore than a politician? because musicains don't have bombs, police, spies, laws and our tax dollars. i'm not saying you should believe them (we agree on that). i'm just saying with a musician, you can take them or leave them, but you don't have to worry about who's pulling the strings. -c
As always, it's bread and circuses. And while bread is down right now, circuses are way up.
Chris Losinger wrote: i'm just saying with a musician, you can take them or leave them, but you don't have to worry about who's pulling the strings. Don't be naive... Commercially viable musicians are slaves to record sales and record companies. Ones with talent use that talent to create art that is sellable. Those without talent resort to shock and controversy. You be the judge as to which we are refering to here. ;)
Mike Mullikin :beer: You can't really dust for vomit. Nigel Tufnel - Spinal Tap