How do you rate yourself...
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Hi, I'm a programmer 75% of the time the other 25% i'm mantain the company up and running... servers, sql, some helpdesk... ect... when i compare my knowledge to some other people that i know i feel that i'm a bit up in front... and that if i have to do something i can research and 99% of the times i solve the problems. some co-workers they dont try to research or make any kind of effort... sometimes i feel bad sharing information with them because i never got nothing back and because if i dont share the knowledge they dont care to search... and at the end i have to the job... What should i do?! Should i share should i stop share and tell them to find out... it's hard because i spend hours of my personal time researching and reading and at the end im giving it to others for free... also my manager dont care or i do it or i tell to the other how to do it basically... i'm a little bit tired of all of this but everytime i go online to find a new job i always feel incomplete... in the jobs they ask for so many things at the same time... should i ignore the situation and try or what your experience tells? also how you rate yourself i see people all the time saying that they are good doing this and that. but i major of the times i never see nothing accomplished, or any big knowledge, but these are the guys with the good jobs... should i say that i am an expert on something that i know i'm not... sometimes i can do some work on a certain subject but that doesnt make me an expert...
Next time you take them by the hand, go to their desk, open IE or FF and type in "www.google.com". Then you say "there, solved" and walk away :-). But seriously, some people need to be shown how and where to look before they'll do it. Don't give them the solution, point to the solution.
V.
Stop smoking so you can: Enjoy longer the money you save. Moviereview Archive -
To be able to share your knowledge is a rare and wonderful gift - do not squander it. Next time someone asks "Do you know how to do XYZ, instead of just telling them, help them to find out. So don't say "Oh, just wham the doohickey up the howsyourfather and flip it with a backhoe" but say "Hmmm, I'm not sure, but let me show you how I would find that out." - and take them through the process of discovery. And follow it up - ask them if they found out how to do it the next day, then next week. A wise man once said "Give the man an answer, and he will solve todays problem - teach him how to google, and all his problems may be solved." Please don't stop sharing. I have worked with people who refuse to share - usually because of an insecurity (if they share, then I might know as much as them!) and it is not nice. Be PROUD of your knowledge. Be aware that, if you openly share your knowledge, your manager and the other staff will notice - even if only subconciously - so you will become a more valuable member of the team. You say "i spend hours of my personal time researching and reading and at the end im giving it to others for free" The question is, why are you spending hours of your personal time? If you are being forced to do so, then that's one thing, but my suspicion is that you actually ENJOY the process, and WANT to learn. I'm not sure if you are asking what is my rating of myself, or by what process do I rate myself (or, indeed, by what process does one rate onesself) but, for what it is worth, I try not to rate myself, becasue of the temptation to pigeonhole. I once interviewed someone who had put on their CV that they rated themselves 10/10 for Delphi Deelopment. Surely, I asked, there must be something you don't know, some aspect you haven't used? Turned out there was lots he hadn't used, huge holes in his knowledge. But he was a fantastic Delphi developer. I think, these days, we're all in the same boat to some extent. With .Net, for example, there are so many apsects, C#, VB, MVC, ASP, WPF, WCF, Javascript, HTML, XML, XSLT, Silverlight, AJAX etc. etc. each of which has its own list of specialities. How do you rate yourself? It's just too hard. My self-rating is, I suspect, similar to yours (from what you say in your post) in that I know I CAN be good at (almost) anything, given the opportunity to learn. I may not be cogniscent of all the ins and outs of MVC in .Net - but give me a week & I'll be able to hold my own. Give me a month and I will be good. Give me three months and
That's one of the best, and most thoughtful answers I've seen on CP in a long time. Thanks for taking the time to do that, Maxxx. :-D I rather doubt that, since management hasn't yet acknowledged his extra effort, they ever will. It's been my experience that managers either notice extra effort, or take it for granted. If they are among the former, they reward it; if not, they're idiots who deserve to lose great talent. I have no idea whether he is a great talent or not, but I'd much rather spend my resources training a great attitude than coddling a great talent with a lousy attitude.
"A Journey of a Thousand Rest Stops Begins with a Single Movement"
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Hi, I'm a programmer 75% of the time the other 25% i'm mantain the company up and running... servers, sql, some helpdesk... ect... when i compare my knowledge to some other people that i know i feel that i'm a bit up in front... and that if i have to do something i can research and 99% of the times i solve the problems. some co-workers they dont try to research or make any kind of effort... sometimes i feel bad sharing information with them because i never got nothing back and because if i dont share the knowledge they dont care to search... and at the end i have to the job... What should i do?! Should i share should i stop share and tell them to find out... it's hard because i spend hours of my personal time researching and reading and at the end im giving it to others for free... also my manager dont care or i do it or i tell to the other how to do it basically... i'm a little bit tired of all of this but everytime i go online to find a new job i always feel incomplete... in the jobs they ask for so many things at the same time... should i ignore the situation and try or what your experience tells? also how you rate yourself i see people all the time saying that they are good doing this and that. but i major of the times i never see nothing accomplished, or any big knowledge, but these are the guys with the good jobs... should i say that i am an expert on something that i know i'm not... sometimes i can do some work on a certain subject but that doesnt make me an expert...
xpto05 wrote:
should i say that i am an expert on something that i know i'm not... sometimes i can do some work on a certain subject but that doesnt make me an expert...
Rule number 1. Never claim to be an expert. Ex means out of date, and a spurt is a drip under pressure. Seriously though, if you claim to be an expert at some point or other you will come into a situation where you either meet somebody who really IS an authority and they will probably make you look like an idiot, or you will be expected to solve an issue that is way outside your comfort zone.
xpto05 wrote:
What should i do?!
The question is - what do you want to do? I try to never give advice to people because they normally know what they want, and they are just seeking validation of that route. If they fail, I get the blame because "it was my idea". A few pointers though, to help you clarify your thoughts. Just because others don't share their knowledge, does it mean you shouldn't either? If everybody behaved like this, nobody would ever learn anything. One of the greatest joys in my job is helping somebody to sort out an issue that they were having a problem with. You say you get nothing back - are you sure about that? Do you not get a warm glow of knowing that you've imparted knowledge? Does your ego not get that little bit of a stroke that you knew and they didn't? Does nobody view you as a team player? It's great that you know how to research problems yourself - how about teaching that to others? Maybe you could mentor somebody else into being a "helper". Finally, how do I see myself? Well - I see myself as very, very good - and that's because I spend an inordinate amount of time reading about, and trying new things on the computer - and being willing to ask others for help when I'm stuck. I've been lucky to work with others who have helped to shape my passion in computing. More importantly, though, I have outside interests that help to keep me sane and give me some depth and perspective. If computers are all you know, then you end up treading a path that others have trodden before you - don't imitate, innovate.
"WPF has many lovers. It's a veritable porn star!" - Josh Smith
As Braveheart once said, "You can take our freedom but you'll never take our Hobnobs!" - Martin Hughes.
My blog |
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To be able to share your knowledge is a rare and wonderful gift - do not squander it. Next time someone asks "Do you know how to do XYZ, instead of just telling them, help them to find out. So don't say "Oh, just wham the doohickey up the howsyourfather and flip it with a backhoe" but say "Hmmm, I'm not sure, but let me show you how I would find that out." - and take them through the process of discovery. And follow it up - ask them if they found out how to do it the next day, then next week. A wise man once said "Give the man an answer, and he will solve todays problem - teach him how to google, and all his problems may be solved." Please don't stop sharing. I have worked with people who refuse to share - usually because of an insecurity (if they share, then I might know as much as them!) and it is not nice. Be PROUD of your knowledge. Be aware that, if you openly share your knowledge, your manager and the other staff will notice - even if only subconciously - so you will become a more valuable member of the team. You say "i spend hours of my personal time researching and reading and at the end im giving it to others for free" The question is, why are you spending hours of your personal time? If you are being forced to do so, then that's one thing, but my suspicion is that you actually ENJOY the process, and WANT to learn. I'm not sure if you are asking what is my rating of myself, or by what process do I rate myself (or, indeed, by what process does one rate onesself) but, for what it is worth, I try not to rate myself, becasue of the temptation to pigeonhole. I once interviewed someone who had put on their CV that they rated themselves 10/10 for Delphi Deelopment. Surely, I asked, there must be something you don't know, some aspect you haven't used? Turned out there was lots he hadn't used, huge holes in his knowledge. But he was a fantastic Delphi developer. I think, these days, we're all in the same boat to some extent. With .Net, for example, there are so many apsects, C#, VB, MVC, ASP, WPF, WCF, Javascript, HTML, XML, XSLT, Silverlight, AJAX etc. etc. each of which has its own list of specialities. How do you rate yourself? It's just too hard. My self-rating is, I suspect, similar to yours (from what you say in your post) in that I know I CAN be good at (almost) anything, given the opportunity to learn. I may not be cogniscent of all the ins and outs of MVC in .Net - but give me a week & I'll be able to hold my own. Give me a month and I will be good. Give me three months and
Maxxx_ wrote:
A wise man once said "Give the man an answer, and he will solve todays problem - teach him how to google, and all his problems may be solved."
And: "Teach a man to fish and he will buy an ugly hat."
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Hi, I'm a programmer 75% of the time the other 25% i'm mantain the company up and running... servers, sql, some helpdesk... ect... when i compare my knowledge to some other people that i know i feel that i'm a bit up in front... and that if i have to do something i can research and 99% of the times i solve the problems. some co-workers they dont try to research or make any kind of effort... sometimes i feel bad sharing information with them because i never got nothing back and because if i dont share the knowledge they dont care to search... and at the end i have to the job... What should i do?! Should i share should i stop share and tell them to find out... it's hard because i spend hours of my personal time researching and reading and at the end im giving it to others for free... also my manager dont care or i do it or i tell to the other how to do it basically... i'm a little bit tired of all of this but everytime i go online to find a new job i always feel incomplete... in the jobs they ask for so many things at the same time... should i ignore the situation and try or what your experience tells? also how you rate yourself i see people all the time saying that they are good doing this and that. but i major of the times i never see nothing accomplished, or any big knowledge, but these are the guys with the good jobs... should i say that i am an expert on something that i know i'm not... sometimes i can do some work on a certain subject but that doesnt make me an expert...
I've always felt a little like that - I'm the kind of guy who knows enough to be dangerous about most things. Proficient at most things I attempt, and always striving to be better and fill my brain with more crap stuff. If something comes along that interests me and I don't know enough about it I will research and learn until I do. Generally, there's not many people like that in the world. I suspect this site has a significantly large proportion of them though! In most of my jobs throughout my life, this has been exploited with little thanks by bosses and colleagues - until January of this year. A company I had worked for previously several years before had grown to the point where they needed someone just like that to do exactly that on a full time basis. The first person they thought of was me. They tracked me down and I came to interview them to see if I wanted to work for them in this role, rather than the other way round. What they had got for free previously, they now valued and needed. So all the years of people taking 'advantage' of my natural desire to help and share knowledge finally paid off, although that's not the reason I was ever like that of course. It did/does feel good to be recognised though. And actually being 'hunted' so someone can offer a position, in this economic climate especially, was the icing on the feel good cake. Moral of my story - do what makes you feel good. Even though it may not seem like it at the time, someone somewhere may really appreciate it.
Dave
BTW, in software, hope and pray is not a viable strategy. (Luc Pattyn)
Visual Basic is not used by normal people so we're not covering it here. (Uncyclopedia)
Why are you using VB6? Do you hate yourself? (Christian Graus) -
To be able to share your knowledge is a rare and wonderful gift - do not squander it. Next time someone asks "Do you know how to do XYZ, instead of just telling them, help them to find out. So don't say "Oh, just wham the doohickey up the howsyourfather and flip it with a backhoe" but say "Hmmm, I'm not sure, but let me show you how I would find that out." - and take them through the process of discovery. And follow it up - ask them if they found out how to do it the next day, then next week. A wise man once said "Give the man an answer, and he will solve todays problem - teach him how to google, and all his problems may be solved." Please don't stop sharing. I have worked with people who refuse to share - usually because of an insecurity (if they share, then I might know as much as them!) and it is not nice. Be PROUD of your knowledge. Be aware that, if you openly share your knowledge, your manager and the other staff will notice - even if only subconciously - so you will become a more valuable member of the team. You say "i spend hours of my personal time researching and reading and at the end im giving it to others for free" The question is, why are you spending hours of your personal time? If you are being forced to do so, then that's one thing, but my suspicion is that you actually ENJOY the process, and WANT to learn. I'm not sure if you are asking what is my rating of myself, or by what process do I rate myself (or, indeed, by what process does one rate onesself) but, for what it is worth, I try not to rate myself, becasue of the temptation to pigeonhole. I once interviewed someone who had put on their CV that they rated themselves 10/10 for Delphi Deelopment. Surely, I asked, there must be something you don't know, some aspect you haven't used? Turned out there was lots he hadn't used, huge holes in his knowledge. But he was a fantastic Delphi developer. I think, these days, we're all in the same boat to some extent. With .Net, for example, there are so many apsects, C#, VB, MVC, ASP, WPF, WCF, Javascript, HTML, XML, XSLT, Silverlight, AJAX etc. etc. each of which has its own list of specialities. How do you rate yourself? It's just too hard. My self-rating is, I suspect, similar to yours (from what you say in your post) in that I know I CAN be good at (almost) anything, given the opportunity to learn. I may not be cogniscent of all the ins and outs of MVC in .Net - but give me a week & I'll be able to hold my own. Give me a month and I will be good. Give me three months and
Nice. 5.
Maxxx_ wrote:
A wise man once said
Another wise man once said "Teach a man to fish and you give up your monopoly on fisheries." "Teach a man to get a job and he can buy a fish from the store."
Simon
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Hi, I'm a programmer 75% of the time the other 25% i'm mantain the company up and running... servers, sql, some helpdesk... ect... when i compare my knowledge to some other people that i know i feel that i'm a bit up in front... and that if i have to do something i can research and 99% of the times i solve the problems. some co-workers they dont try to research or make any kind of effort... sometimes i feel bad sharing information with them because i never got nothing back and because if i dont share the knowledge they dont care to search... and at the end i have to the job... What should i do?! Should i share should i stop share and tell them to find out... it's hard because i spend hours of my personal time researching and reading and at the end im giving it to others for free... also my manager dont care or i do it or i tell to the other how to do it basically... i'm a little bit tired of all of this but everytime i go online to find a new job i always feel incomplete... in the jobs they ask for so many things at the same time... should i ignore the situation and try or what your experience tells? also how you rate yourself i see people all the time saying that they are good doing this and that. but i major of the times i never see nothing accomplished, or any big knowledge, but these are the guys with the good jobs... should i say that i am an expert on something that i know i'm not... sometimes i can do some work on a certain subject but that doesnt make me an expert...
I've been in your shoes. You should, IMHO, get going on getting out of this company. They've psychologically shoved you into a role and they won't let you out. Further, if you want to be actually appreciated again you need to move to a company where they aren't used to having everything done by someone as competent. This is scary, of course. But you sound like you are ready to make the leap and you just need a decent plan. When you realize you won't be happy until you make a change you will want one. Here is the plan I suggest for getting you on to your next job. First; you are adequate (or better) or you wouldn't be able to do the job you are doing. However; you might be too much of a generalist. Generalists are great for getting the job done. They are lousy at getting themselves hired. They never trust their skills when taking them out to compare. Therefore you need multiple resumes. You start with a big one and make spin-offs of it that show specific talents without showing how general your skill-set is. The one you put forth first is the one you consider is aimed at your dream job. Like Programmer rather than babysitter, which is one of your roles. When you find a job you want to try out for (and it is very much like an audition) you pick a similar resume from your resume pile and cut and snip it to match the job. Rewrite pieces if necessary. Every one of these resumes is a separate file, named suitably to the job you sent them to, and the main one is called something to indicate that it is the master resume. Customize the resume as much as possible to the job ad. If it says "2.5 years experience doing Business Objects" and your resume says "2.5 years experience doing Crystal Reports" you should rewrite it to say "2.5 years experience doing Business Objects - Crystal Reports". Parrot the ad as much as possible with your very real skills. Also, as much as the whole resume is important the most important part is the first 3 inches or so of page 1. Put your keywords there for the headhunters and your skill summary for everyone else. If your skill summary is longer than three inches, put the most relevant items for the given job at the top of the skill summary. And kill off any out of date technology in your resume unless they asked for it in the ad. Who cares if you can write DOS batch files? Equally true of low-level skills such as, well, writing DOS batch files. You are a programmer of .Net (or whatever) and that's what you need to show. T
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That's one of the best, and most thoughtful answers I've seen on CP in a long time. Thanks for taking the time to do that, Maxxx. :-D I rather doubt that, since management hasn't yet acknowledged his extra effort, they ever will. It's been my experience that managers either notice extra effort, or take it for granted. If they are among the former, they reward it; if not, they're idiots who deserve to lose great talent. I have no idea whether he is a great talent or not, but I'd much rather spend my resources training a great attitude than coddling a great talent with a lousy attitude.
"A Journey of a Thousand Rest Stops Begins with a Single Movement"
Roger Wright wrote:
Thanks for taking the time to do that, Maxxx.
Glad to be of help occasionally
Roger Wright wrote:
hasn't yet acknowledged his extra effort, they ever will.
While I don't disagree, I think ther's a lot to be said for 'subconcious' messaging. If you are active in an office environment, mentoring and gladly teaching, when it comes to conversations with management, the staff will realise how hard it would be to do without you. Management may not actively think about it, but it becomes entrenched almost. I work for a complet bunch of jerks at the moment, so have given up on being helpful - but in the past I am always eager to share the knowloedge. Fro exmaple, in the early days of the internet, I ran courses after work for anyone interested, showing them and teaching them all about the Information Superhighway. I got employee of the month award. I was suddenly noticed. OK - that's overt but the fact is that those who nominated me pointed out to management that I was always helpful, willing to share my knowledge and go the extra yard. Oh - and I guess one important thing should be mentioned - you have to do it because you enjoy doing it - not because you want to get into management's good books;
___________________________________________ .\\axxx (That's an 'M')
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Hi, I'm a programmer 75% of the time the other 25% i'm mantain the company up and running... servers, sql, some helpdesk... ect... when i compare my knowledge to some other people that i know i feel that i'm a bit up in front... and that if i have to do something i can research and 99% of the times i solve the problems. some co-workers they dont try to research or make any kind of effort... sometimes i feel bad sharing information with them because i never got nothing back and because if i dont share the knowledge they dont care to search... and at the end i have to the job... What should i do?! Should i share should i stop share and tell them to find out... it's hard because i spend hours of my personal time researching and reading and at the end im giving it to others for free... also my manager dont care or i do it or i tell to the other how to do it basically... i'm a little bit tired of all of this but everytime i go online to find a new job i always feel incomplete... in the jobs they ask for so many things at the same time... should i ignore the situation and try or what your experience tells? also how you rate yourself i see people all the time saying that they are good doing this and that. but i major of the times i never see nothing accomplished, or any big knowledge, but these are the guys with the good jobs... should i say that i am an expert on something that i know i'm not... sometimes i can do some work on a certain subject but that doesnt make me an expert...
Others have addressed most of your comments far more eloquently and thoroughly than I can today, but I did want to comment on one thing you said:
xpto05 wrote:
should i say that i am an expert on something that i know i'm not
Never, ever, ever claim to be an expert on something when you yourself don't even believe it. It will always come back to bite you and undermine everything else you've accomplished. Ed
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Roger Wright wrote:
Thanks for taking the time to do that, Maxxx.
Glad to be of help occasionally
Roger Wright wrote:
hasn't yet acknowledged his extra effort, they ever will.
While I don't disagree, I think ther's a lot to be said for 'subconcious' messaging. If you are active in an office environment, mentoring and gladly teaching, when it comes to conversations with management, the staff will realise how hard it would be to do without you. Management may not actively think about it, but it becomes entrenched almost. I work for a complet bunch of jerks at the moment, so have given up on being helpful - but in the past I am always eager to share the knowloedge. Fro exmaple, in the early days of the internet, I ran courses after work for anyone interested, showing them and teaching them all about the Information Superhighway. I got employee of the month award. I was suddenly noticed. OK - that's overt but the fact is that those who nominated me pointed out to management that I was always helpful, willing to share my knowledge and go the extra yard. Oh - and I guess one important thing should be mentioned - you have to do it because you enjoy doing it - not because you want to get into management's good books;
___________________________________________ .\\axxx (That's an 'M')
i completly agree with you, but when you reach some points, there are no point anymore... About teaching how to search, they already know... they can find how to stream movies from ps3 to pc, how to do this and that, but nothing related to work... because this people dont really care... my manager is a 64 years old man... that just want peace... and doesnt care obout nothing more... and im at the middle of this... at the same time my manager is like the bosses old friend... he doesnt even search for salaries to us... i dont have a raise for more than 3 years... they problem is that my manager puts all the pressure on me because he feels like im the responsible one... The problem is that im more than tired... yesterday was one of thosedays that you want to check with others!
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Hi, I'm a programmer 75% of the time the other 25% i'm mantain the company up and running... servers, sql, some helpdesk... ect... when i compare my knowledge to some other people that i know i feel that i'm a bit up in front... and that if i have to do something i can research and 99% of the times i solve the problems. some co-workers they dont try to research or make any kind of effort... sometimes i feel bad sharing information with them because i never got nothing back and because if i dont share the knowledge they dont care to search... and at the end i have to the job... What should i do?! Should i share should i stop share and tell them to find out... it's hard because i spend hours of my personal time researching and reading and at the end im giving it to others for free... also my manager dont care or i do it or i tell to the other how to do it basically... i'm a little bit tired of all of this but everytime i go online to find a new job i always feel incomplete... in the jobs they ask for so many things at the same time... should i ignore the situation and try or what your experience tells? also how you rate yourself i see people all the time saying that they are good doing this and that. but i major of the times i never see nothing accomplished, or any big knowledge, but these are the guys with the good jobs... should i say that i am an expert on something that i know i'm not... sometimes i can do some work on a certain subject but that doesnt make me an expert...
Thanks all all of you for sharing your opinion with me... im working a little bit on my english and also on find a new job... mainly because of the second is why i got a bit scared... all the posts that i saw have so many requirements that it scared me. Thanks to all again...
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Thanks all all of you for sharing your opinion with me... im working a little bit on my english and also on find a new job... mainly because of the second is why i got a bit scared... all the posts that i saw have so many requirements that it scared me. Thanks to all again...
This stuff is always scary. I know what people are suggesting is challenging. But you can do it. One step at a time. Self improvement, career management, skill improvement, etc. All of it is an ongoing process. Presumably you've done hard things before. And you got through them. Now you do them with confidence and perhaps ease. Put this in the same category. You might even get good enough to teach someone else how to do it. And its okay to fail several times before you succeed, just keep plugging away. If you want advice on specifics, bring specific questions back to the forum. Nobody expects you to figure this out overnight. My own path to my list of suggestions was hard won over many years. I didn't just go out and get it from a single book, person or experience.