A thought-experiment about the killing of the abortionist
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Bob Emmett wrote:
It was illegal of Antigone to defy Creon. The 'wrongness' of her act is up to each individual to determine.
You have hit the nail on the head. I was thinking of a slightly less classical allusion - Billy Budd. (Do you read Melville on your side of the Pond?) The difference between justice and the law can be immense, and I am not sure that the law can ever approach justice. Billy acts justly, not only by his own lights but by those of his Captain - nonetheless, Captain Vere rules Billy must be executed according to the law because the law is all we have. If someone is prepared to break the law to administer justice, we can sympathise - I do sympathise and I cannot find it in my heart to think that the world is worse off because of the death of the doctor - but we cannot tear down the rule of law and substitute a rule of opinion - That is mobocracy.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Both democrats and republicans are playing for the same team and it's not us. - Chris Austin
Oakman wrote:
Billy Budd
A good choice.
Oakman wrote:
Do you read Melville on your side of the Pond?
He appears in the reading lists for English exams, from time to time. I read Moby Dick when I in my teens - for pleasure, not exams - and have heard adaptations of his stories for radio. Last one was "Bartleby the Scrivener".
Bob Emmett
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Oakman wrote:
Billy Budd
A good choice.
Oakman wrote:
Do you read Melville on your side of the Pond?
He appears in the reading lists for English exams, from time to time. I read Moby Dick when I in my teens - for pleasure, not exams - and have heard adaptations of his stories for radio. Last one was "Bartleby the Scrivener".
Bob Emmett
Bob Emmett wrote:
I read Moby Dick when I in my teens
I first read Moby Dick in the 5th grade - as an adventure story, so I skipped over that silly old chapter on the color "white." I even gave a book report on it. Luckily, I was prevailed up on to re-read it while I was in the service. The second time through, I got it.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Both democrats and republicans are playing for the same team and it's not us. - Chris Austin
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Washington Post[^] Many in the "pro-life" anti-abortion movement seem to me to only be pro-life in the case of abortion -- unlike those who hold an ethic of life across a range of moral issues, not only abortion but also war and the death penalty, This makes "pro-life" in regard to abortion not only an inconsistent ethic, but an unstable one.
73Zeppelin wrote:
Many in the "pro-life" anti-abortion movement seem to me to only be pro-life in the case of abortion -- unlike those who hold an ethic of life across a range of moral issues, not only abortion but also war and the death penalty, This makes "pro-life" in regard to abortion not only an inconsistent ethic, but an unstable one.
I'd have to disagree, John. In war and in the case of the death penalty the life that is extinguished has given cause for what happened to it, and has had warning that it could happen. A viable fetus is truly the most innocent of the innocent. Late-term abortion is the ultimate form of child-abuse, and the only one condoned by society.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Both democrats and republicans are playing for the same team and it's not us. - Chris Austin
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Bob Emmett wrote:
I read Moby Dick when I in my teens
I first read Moby Dick in the 5th grade - as an adventure story, so I skipped over that silly old chapter on the color "white." I even gave a book report on it. Luckily, I was prevailed up on to re-read it while I was in the service. The second time through, I got it.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Both democrats and republicans are playing for the same team and it's not us. - Chris Austin
Similar experience with Wuthering Heights. An 11th birthday present (in a job lot along with Last of the Mohicans, Mr. Midshipman Easy, and others now forgotten). I finally managed to read WH all through (with limited understanding, admittedly) just after my 13th birthday, after several false starts.
Bob Emmett
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Bob Emmett wrote:
I read Moby Dick when I in my teens
I first read Moby Dick in the 5th grade - as an adventure story, so I skipped over that silly old chapter on the color "white." I even gave a book report on it. Luckily, I was prevailed up on to re-read it while I was in the service. The second time through, I got it.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Both democrats and republicans are playing for the same team and it's not us. - Chris Austin
Oakman wrote:
I first read Moby Dick in the 5th grade - as an adventure story, so I skipped over that silly old chapter on the color "white." I even gave a book report on it. Luckily, I was prevailed up on to re-read it while I was in the service. The second time through, I got it.
Do you really get it? I think Moby Dick is a little like quantum mechanics: if you think you understand it, you don't really understand it at all. Chapter 42 is, however, arguably one of the most important chapters in the book.
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Oakman wrote:
I first read Moby Dick in the 5th grade - as an adventure story, so I skipped over that silly old chapter on the color "white." I even gave a book report on it. Luckily, I was prevailed up on to re-read it while I was in the service. The second time through, I got it.
Do you really get it? I think Moby Dick is a little like quantum mechanics: if you think you understand it, you don't really understand it at all. Chapter 42 is, however, arguably one of the most important chapters in the book.
73Zeppelin wrote:
you think you understand it, you don't really understand it at all.
I understand quantum mechanics perfectly: "And the earth was without form, and void."
73Zeppelin wrote:
if you think you understand it, you don't really understand it at all.
I think that great works of art permit us see things in them that the creator never put there, but that we, as co-creators of the experience have added. In that sense, at least, I can claim I "got it" for that time and place in my life. It does not mean that I would get it in the same way the next time I read it, or that I might, if I was lucky, glean things from it that Melville did intend for me to see that I missed. Unfortunately I don't have much time for reading this days, though I do try for 1/2 hour uninterupted each night. Not easy to do, when you live with cats.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Both democrats and republicans are playing for the same team and it's not us. - Chris Austin
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73Zeppelin wrote:
you think you understand it, you don't really understand it at all.
I understand quantum mechanics perfectly: "And the earth was without form, and void."
73Zeppelin wrote:
if you think you understand it, you don't really understand it at all.
I think that great works of art permit us see things in them that the creator never put there, but that we, as co-creators of the experience have added. In that sense, at least, I can claim I "got it" for that time and place in my life. It does not mean that I would get it in the same way the next time I read it, or that I might, if I was lucky, glean things from it that Melville did intend for me to see that I missed. Unfortunately I don't have much time for reading this days, though I do try for 1/2 hour uninterupted each night. Not easy to do, when you live with cats.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Both democrats and republicans are playing for the same team and it's not us. - Chris Austin
Oakman wrote:
I think that great works of art permit us see things in them that the creator never put there, but that we, as co-creators of the experience have added.
Firstly, my intention wasn't to offend. I am fascinated by Moby Dick. Did you ever read any of Melville's personal correspondence to authors like Hawthorne? Link[^].
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73Zeppelin wrote:
you think you understand it, you don't really understand it at all.
I understand quantum mechanics perfectly: "And the earth was without form, and void."
73Zeppelin wrote:
if you think you understand it, you don't really understand it at all.
I think that great works of art permit us see things in them that the creator never put there, but that we, as co-creators of the experience have added. In that sense, at least, I can claim I "got it" for that time and place in my life. It does not mean that I would get it in the same way the next time I read it, or that I might, if I was lucky, glean things from it that Melville did intend for me to see that I missed. Unfortunately I don't have much time for reading this days, though I do try for 1/2 hour uninterupted each night. Not easy to do, when you live with cats.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Both democrats and republicans are playing for the same team and it's not us. - Chris Austin
Oakman wrote:
Not easy to do, when you live with cats.
What do you do when they leave sacrifices? My family's cats have taken to leaving a dead mouse or frog in front of my computer table for me to find in the morning
Between the idea And the reality Between the motion And the act Falls the Shadow
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Oakman wrote:
I think that great works of art permit us see things in them that the creator never put there, but that we, as co-creators of the experience have added.
Firstly, my intention wasn't to offend. I am fascinated by Moby Dick. Did you ever read any of Melville's personal correspondence to authors like Hawthorne? Link[^].
73Zeppelin wrote:
Firstly, my intention wasn't to offend. I am fascinated by Moby Dick.
Far from being offended, I was delighted to be asked to think. Too much of what we talk about in here turns into pissing contests. However, in the same vein, if i said something that made you think i was offended, I apoligise.
73Zeppelin wrote:
Did you ever read any of Melville's personal correspondence to authors like Hawthorne?
Nope. I wasn't even aware of them. Thanks!
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Both democrats and republicans are playing for the same team and it's not us. - Chris Austin
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Oakman wrote:
Not easy to do, when you live with cats.
What do you do when they leave sacrifices? My family's cats have taken to leaving a dead mouse or frog in front of my computer table for me to find in the morning
Between the idea And the reality Between the motion And the act Falls the Shadow
Computafreak wrote:
What do you do when they leave sacrifices? My family's cats have taken to leaving a dead mouse or frog in front of my computer table for me to find in the morning
Thank them for their gift, what else? You have been adopted into the pride, no greater honor will come to you in this lifetime.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Both democrats and republicans are playing for the same team and it's not us. - Chris Austin
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Computafreak wrote:
What do you do when they leave sacrifices? My family's cats have taken to leaving a dead mouse or frog in front of my computer table for me to find in the morning
Thank them for their gift, what else? You have been adopted into the pride, no greater honor will come to you in this lifetime.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Both democrats and republicans are playing for the same team and it's not us. - Chris Austin
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So there's no way to stop it from happening, apart from leaving dead humans where I see them the most?
Between the idea And the reality Between the motion And the act Falls the Shadow
Computafreak wrote:
So there's no way to stop it from happening, apart from leaving dead humans where I see them the most?
Keep them indoors, they'll live longer that way, too. But you are dealing with two instincts that have kept felines surviving for a long, long time: hunt the prey; feed those who are too small, or too dumb to hunt for themselves. I'll leave it to you to decide which they think you are. ;)
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Both democrats and republicans are playing for the same team and it's not us. - Chris Austin
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Computafreak wrote:
So there's no way to stop it from happening, apart from leaving dead humans where I see them the most?
Keep them indoors, they'll live longer that way, too. But you are dealing with two instincts that have kept felines surviving for a long, long time: hunt the prey; feed those who are too small, or too dumb to hunt for themselves. I'll leave it to you to decide which they think you are. ;)
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Both democrats and republicans are playing for the same team and it's not us. - Chris Austin
:laugh: They don't like being kept indoors; they try to escape. Unless the cat flap is open, in which case they lounge around on every bed in the house apart from mine and shed. Not a good thing when my 6th form demands a suit as a dress code
Between the idea And the reality Between the motion And the act Falls the Shadow
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:laugh: They don't like being kept indoors; they try to escape. Unless the cat flap is open, in which case they lounge around on every bed in the house apart from mine and shed. Not a good thing when my 6th form demands a suit as a dress code
Between the idea And the reality Between the motion And the act Falls the Shadow
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73Zeppelin wrote:
Firstly, my intention wasn't to offend. I am fascinated by Moby Dick.
Far from being offended, I was delighted to be asked to think. Too much of what we talk about in here turns into pissing contests. However, in the same vein, if i said something that made you think i was offended, I apoligise.
73Zeppelin wrote:
Did you ever read any of Melville's personal correspondence to authors like Hawthorne?
Nope. I wasn't even aware of them. Thanks!
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Both democrats and republicans are playing for the same team and it's not us. - Chris Austin
Oakman wrote:
Far from being offended, I was delighted to be asked to think. Too much of what we talk about in here turns into pissing contests. However, in the same vein, if i said something that made you think i was offended, I apoligise.
Just making sure I came off the way I wanted to. Also, in a first reading of your post I missed the part about the cats. How many do you have? I've got four.
Oakman wrote:
Nope. I wasn't even aware of them. Thanks!
I have an annotated copy of Moby Dick - in the back is ample commentary, analysis and reprints of Melville's letters to numerous others (Hawthorne included). They provide insight into his mindset and reasons for writing Moby Dick. I found them fascinating; like the story behind the story.
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This is a repost[^]. But whatever, it's still excellent. I was waiting for this. A stunning example of a "Christian" (and in the context of you, I use the term in the loosest sense) justifying murder through a poorly constructed, uninteresting and overly wordy "Lex talionis" (you can look that up) defense. I thought you were familiar with the Sermon on the Mount, no? Anyways, your's is the most intellectually barren commentary on the matter I have read; but then again, I never expected anything interesting in you from the first place. Your below average intellect has been clear to me from the outset. But I digress. There is one interesting aspect of your post - it is now abundantly clear that you are a Christian apostate.
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Oakman wrote:
Far from being offended, I was delighted to be asked to think. Too much of what we talk about in here turns into pissing contests. However, in the same vein, if i said something that made you think i was offended, I apoligise.
Just making sure I came off the way I wanted to. Also, in a first reading of your post I missed the part about the cats. How many do you have? I've got four.
Oakman wrote:
Nope. I wasn't even aware of them. Thanks!
I have an annotated copy of Moby Dick - in the back is ample commentary, analysis and reprints of Melville's letters to numerous others (Hawthorne included). They provide insight into his mindset and reasons for writing Moby Dick. I found them fascinating; like the story behind the story.
73Zeppelin wrote:
I've got four
Four - 2 blind, one diabetic, and one who had been stepped on as a barn kitten by a horse and had his leg smashed.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Both democrats and republicans are playing for the same team and it's not us. - Chris Austin
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Christian Graus wrote:
He's heard of it, but thinks it's a bunch of left leaning, socialist drivel.
:thumbsup::thumbsup:
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Both democrats and republicans are playing for the same team and it's not us. - Chris Austin
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That's what I thought.