A thought-experiment about the killing of the abortionist
-
73Zeppelin wrote:
you think you understand it, you don't really understand it at all.
I understand quantum mechanics perfectly: "And the earth was without form, and void."
73Zeppelin wrote:
if you think you understand it, you don't really understand it at all.
I think that great works of art permit us see things in them that the creator never put there, but that we, as co-creators of the experience have added. In that sense, at least, I can claim I "got it" for that time and place in my life. It does not mean that I would get it in the same way the next time I read it, or that I might, if I was lucky, glean things from it that Melville did intend for me to see that I missed. Unfortunately I don't have much time for reading this days, though I do try for 1/2 hour uninterupted each night. Not easy to do, when you live with cats.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Both democrats and republicans are playing for the same team and it's not us. - Chris Austin
Oakman wrote:
I think that great works of art permit us see things in them that the creator never put there, but that we, as co-creators of the experience have added.
Firstly, my intention wasn't to offend. I am fascinated by Moby Dick. Did you ever read any of Melville's personal correspondence to authors like Hawthorne? Link[^].
-
73Zeppelin wrote:
you think you understand it, you don't really understand it at all.
I understand quantum mechanics perfectly: "And the earth was without form, and void."
73Zeppelin wrote:
if you think you understand it, you don't really understand it at all.
I think that great works of art permit us see things in them that the creator never put there, but that we, as co-creators of the experience have added. In that sense, at least, I can claim I "got it" for that time and place in my life. It does not mean that I would get it in the same way the next time I read it, or that I might, if I was lucky, glean things from it that Melville did intend for me to see that I missed. Unfortunately I don't have much time for reading this days, though I do try for 1/2 hour uninterupted each night. Not easy to do, when you live with cats.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Both democrats and republicans are playing for the same team and it's not us. - Chris Austin
Oakman wrote:
Not easy to do, when you live with cats.
What do you do when they leave sacrifices? My family's cats have taken to leaving a dead mouse or frog in front of my computer table for me to find in the morning
Between the idea And the reality Between the motion And the act Falls the Shadow
-
Oakman wrote:
I think that great works of art permit us see things in them that the creator never put there, but that we, as co-creators of the experience have added.
Firstly, my intention wasn't to offend. I am fascinated by Moby Dick. Did you ever read any of Melville's personal correspondence to authors like Hawthorne? Link[^].
73Zeppelin wrote:
Firstly, my intention wasn't to offend. I am fascinated by Moby Dick.
Far from being offended, I was delighted to be asked to think. Too much of what we talk about in here turns into pissing contests. However, in the same vein, if i said something that made you think i was offended, I apoligise.
73Zeppelin wrote:
Did you ever read any of Melville's personal correspondence to authors like Hawthorne?
Nope. I wasn't even aware of them. Thanks!
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Both democrats and republicans are playing for the same team and it's not us. - Chris Austin
-
Oakman wrote:
Not easy to do, when you live with cats.
What do you do when they leave sacrifices? My family's cats have taken to leaving a dead mouse or frog in front of my computer table for me to find in the morning
Between the idea And the reality Between the motion And the act Falls the Shadow
Computafreak wrote:
What do you do when they leave sacrifices? My family's cats have taken to leaving a dead mouse or frog in front of my computer table for me to find in the morning
Thank them for their gift, what else? You have been adopted into the pride, no greater honor will come to you in this lifetime.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Both democrats and republicans are playing for the same team and it's not us. - Chris Austin
-
Computafreak wrote:
What do you do when they leave sacrifices? My family's cats have taken to leaving a dead mouse or frog in front of my computer table for me to find in the morning
Thank them for their gift, what else? You have been adopted into the pride, no greater honor will come to you in this lifetime.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Both democrats and republicans are playing for the same team and it's not us. - Chris Austin
-
So there's no way to stop it from happening, apart from leaving dead humans where I see them the most?
Between the idea And the reality Between the motion And the act Falls the Shadow
Computafreak wrote:
So there's no way to stop it from happening, apart from leaving dead humans where I see them the most?
Keep them indoors, they'll live longer that way, too. But you are dealing with two instincts that have kept felines surviving for a long, long time: hunt the prey; feed those who are too small, or too dumb to hunt for themselves. I'll leave it to you to decide which they think you are. ;)
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Both democrats and republicans are playing for the same team and it's not us. - Chris Austin
-
Computafreak wrote:
So there's no way to stop it from happening, apart from leaving dead humans where I see them the most?
Keep them indoors, they'll live longer that way, too. But you are dealing with two instincts that have kept felines surviving for a long, long time: hunt the prey; feed those who are too small, or too dumb to hunt for themselves. I'll leave it to you to decide which they think you are. ;)
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Both democrats and republicans are playing for the same team and it's not us. - Chris Austin
:laugh: They don't like being kept indoors; they try to escape. Unless the cat flap is open, in which case they lounge around on every bed in the house apart from mine and shed. Not a good thing when my 6th form demands a suit as a dress code
Between the idea And the reality Between the motion And the act Falls the Shadow
-
:laugh: They don't like being kept indoors; they try to escape. Unless the cat flap is open, in which case they lounge around on every bed in the house apart from mine and shed. Not a good thing when my 6th form demands a suit as a dress code
Between the idea And the reality Between the motion And the act Falls the Shadow
-
73Zeppelin wrote:
Firstly, my intention wasn't to offend. I am fascinated by Moby Dick.
Far from being offended, I was delighted to be asked to think. Too much of what we talk about in here turns into pissing contests. However, in the same vein, if i said something that made you think i was offended, I apoligise.
73Zeppelin wrote:
Did you ever read any of Melville's personal correspondence to authors like Hawthorne?
Nope. I wasn't even aware of them. Thanks!
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Both democrats and republicans are playing for the same team and it's not us. - Chris Austin
Oakman wrote:
Far from being offended, I was delighted to be asked to think. Too much of what we talk about in here turns into pissing contests. However, in the same vein, if i said something that made you think i was offended, I apoligise.
Just making sure I came off the way I wanted to. Also, in a first reading of your post I missed the part about the cats. How many do you have? I've got four.
Oakman wrote:
Nope. I wasn't even aware of them. Thanks!
I have an annotated copy of Moby Dick - in the back is ample commentary, analysis and reprints of Melville's letters to numerous others (Hawthorne included). They provide insight into his mindset and reasons for writing Moby Dick. I found them fascinating; like the story behind the story.
-
This is a repost[^]. But whatever, it's still excellent. I was waiting for this. A stunning example of a "Christian" (and in the context of you, I use the term in the loosest sense) justifying murder through a poorly constructed, uninteresting and overly wordy "Lex talionis" (you can look that up) defense. I thought you were familiar with the Sermon on the Mount, no? Anyways, your's is the most intellectually barren commentary on the matter I have read; but then again, I never expected anything interesting in you from the first place. Your below average intellect has been clear to me from the outset. But I digress. There is one interesting aspect of your post - it is now abundantly clear that you are a Christian apostate.
-
Oakman wrote:
Far from being offended, I was delighted to be asked to think. Too much of what we talk about in here turns into pissing contests. However, in the same vein, if i said something that made you think i was offended, I apoligise.
Just making sure I came off the way I wanted to. Also, in a first reading of your post I missed the part about the cats. How many do you have? I've got four.
Oakman wrote:
Nope. I wasn't even aware of them. Thanks!
I have an annotated copy of Moby Dick - in the back is ample commentary, analysis and reprints of Melville's letters to numerous others (Hawthorne included). They provide insight into his mindset and reasons for writing Moby Dick. I found them fascinating; like the story behind the story.
73Zeppelin wrote:
I've got four
Four - 2 blind, one diabetic, and one who had been stepped on as a barn kitten by a horse and had his leg smashed.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Both democrats and republicans are playing for the same team and it's not us. - Chris Austin
-
Christian Graus wrote:
He's heard of it, but thinks it's a bunch of left leaning, socialist drivel.
:thumbsup::thumbsup:
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Both democrats and republicans are playing for the same team and it's not us. - Chris Austin
-
That's what I thought.
-
73Zeppelin wrote:
Many in the "pro-life" anti-abortion movement seem to me to only be pro-life in the case of abortion -- unlike those who hold an ethic of life across a range of moral issues, not only abortion but also war and the death penalty, This makes "pro-life" in regard to abortion not only an inconsistent ethic, but an unstable one.
I'd have to disagree, John. In war and in the case of the death penalty the life that is extinguished has given cause for what happened to it, and has had warning that it could happen. A viable fetus is truly the most innocent of the innocent. Late-term abortion is the ultimate form of child-abuse, and the only one condoned by society.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Both democrats and republicans are playing for the same team and it's not us. - Chris Austin
Point taken - although I am not sure that the author was referring specifically to late term abortion, but rather to the overall ideology of the pro-life movement. In any event, I would agree with you. I was providing counterpoint to Ilion's original post.
-
Point taken - although I am not sure that the author was referring specifically to late term abortion, but rather to the overall ideology of the pro-life movement. In any event, I would agree with you. I was providing counterpoint to Ilion's original post.
73Zeppelin wrote:
although I am not sure that the author was referring specifically to late term abortion, but rather to the overall ideology of the pro-life movement
Both sides like to paint the issue with a broad a brush as possible. All pro-lifers are. . .All pro-choice are. . .Truth to be told, very few people are for either the wholesale use of abortion as birth-control or the wholesale denial of abortions to people who need them. And those who are totally in favor or totally opposed are not people I like to associate with, snob that I am. Early term abortions are for me, something else altogether. I have some qualms about the idea, but I cannot claim that I know enough to make any kind of a knowledgeable judgement.
73Zeppelin wrote:
I was providing counterpoint to Ilion's original post.
I admire your willingness to enter into a never-ending battle.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Both democrats and republicans are playing for the same team and it's not us. - Chris Austin
-
Come on Troy Dale Hailey, why haven't you taken justice into your own hands? If it's so right, so 'Just', then why are you so cowardly about it?
While I'm sure not too many would miss him, this is how Red was run off. I find it less than acceptable to publicly post someone's real full name without their consent. You have just now put yourself on par with Josh, as he was the one who ousted Red.
This statement is false
-
While I'm sure not too many would miss him, this is how Red was run off. I find it less than acceptable to publicly post someone's real full name without their consent. You have just now put yourself on par with Josh, as he was the one who ousted Red.
This statement is false
Synaptrik wrote:
While I'm sure not too many would miss him, this is how Red was run off.
Y'know, I actually kind of miss the guy. He might have been a pretentious, obstinate, snarky, trolling jackass, but he at least occasionally showed both a wit in insult and a talent for sophistry that we'll never see from the likes of the Ilion-bot (I'm still convinced that his replies are at least partially automated) or Bonghit McWafflehouse.
-
Ilíon wrote:
If you reject this reasoning as applied to these hypothetical schools, how is it that you accept it as applied to the mass-murder going on daily in our nation?
The reason any intelligent person rejects this drivel is that two wrong don't make a right. Or, as someone once said ( although I know you're not a fan of his opinions ), you should treat your enemies with kindness and bless those who persecute you. Only a hypocrite would think that the way to stop killing, is to kill someone. I have a question, if you're against legalised killing, I take it you're against the death penalty ?
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Please read this[^] if you don't like the answer I gave to your question.
Christian Graus wrote:
Only a hypocrite would think that the way to stop killing, is to kill someone.
Really? If you held a gun to the head of Hitler, Mao, or Pol Pot would you still say the same? If you are opposed to killing, but you choose to do so once to stop someone who does nothing but kill, then you have stopped killing by killing. Even if someone took offense and chose to kill you out of vengeance, it would still be far less killing that if you hadn't intervened in the first place. Not that I condone vigilante justice, but I can still see the argument. If a guy walks into a packed McDonalds, whips out an assault rifle and starts pouring lead into people all around him, and another person just happened to have a gun on them... If they decided to pull their gun and shoot the attacker, and then later were quoted as saying "he was killing all those people, I had to do something", would you just call him a hypocrite? Would you suggest that he just watch the festivities and patiently wait his turn to be shot instead? I don't believe you intended it to be taken that far, but your statement is just not fair. Maybe stopping a killer with deadly force is hypocritical. But that doesn't necessarily make it the wrong thing to do. However, we're dealing with a situation where half those engaged don't think a death occurs. I don't think shooting abortion doctors is the correct way to handle things. Neither is legislation from the bench by judicial activists (or judicial proxies for activists). The law is all important. I feel for Dr Tiller's family, but I won't shed any tears for him. He killed around 60,000 babies in his 35 years of practice. And he made a lot of money in the process. As for the death penalty 'argument', I get tired of hearing this one as if it's some clever catch 22. Yes, you can call people hypocrites for apposing abortion and standing for the death penalty. But you are far more of a hypocrite to appose putting killers to death and standing up for the right to kill babies. The death penalty today is reserved for killers who show no sign of remorse or possibility of rehabilitation. Which means they will always be killers, and if they were to be set free, they would kill again. Putting such people to death is purely about social self preservation. Babies are innocent, and the least threatening people you will ever meet. Sorry you had to catch all of my venting, but your statement caught me wrong.
-
While I'm sure not too many would miss him, this is how Red was run off. I find it less than acceptable to publicly post someone's real full name without their consent. You have just now put yourself on par with Josh, as he was the one who ousted Red.
This statement is false
Synaptrik wrote:
While I'm sure not too many would miss him, this is how Red was run off. I find it less than acceptable to publicly post someone's real full name without their consent. You have just now put yourself on par with Josh, as he was the one who ousted Red.
And as I recall, Red wasn't shy about throwing Josh's personal details around either. He could dish it out, but couldn't take it. No sympathy.
"Republicans are the party that says government doesn't work and then they get elected and prove it." -- P.J. O'Rourke
I'm a proud denizen of the Real Soapbox[^]
ACCEPT NO SUBSTITUTES!!!