Have you ever successfully completed a project...
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...with people whom you have not seen or met personally? I very specifically mean software development projects. If the answer is yes (I expect many people here would have done that), how successful were you? Would you rather have seen them personally everyday. Do you think projects are more successful that way?
modified on Thursday, June 4, 2009 11:06 AM
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...with people whom you have not seen or met personally? I very specifically mean software development projects. If the answer is yes (I expect many people here would have done that), how successful were you? Would you rather have seen them personally everyday. Do you think projects are more successful that way?
modified on Thursday, June 4, 2009 11:06 AM
Probably the (initial version of the) CodeProject forum which we are just using counts, since it is something I did together with Chris M. in a remote kind of way.
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...with people whom you have not seen or met personally? I very specifically mean software development projects. If the answer is yes (I expect many people here would have done that), how successful were you? Would you rather have seen them personally everyday. Do you think projects are more successful that way?
modified on Thursday, June 4, 2009 11:06 AM
When you say "people", do you mean users, fellow devs, managers, QAs, etc? That can make a significant difference. Successfully, as in "did the project meet its goals?" - Yes Successfully, as in "did you like it and would you like to do it again?" - No
Rama Krishna Vavilala wrote:
Would you rather have seen them personally everyday
I wouldn't insist on seeing them *every* day, but personally I feel it helps a great deal if a developer were to talk directly to the end user.
Cheers, Vikram.
Recent activities: TV series: Friends, season 6 Books: Freakonomics, by Steven Levitt and Stephen J Dubner.
Carpe Diem.
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...with people whom you have not seen or met personally? I very specifically mean software development projects. If the answer is yes (I expect many people here would have done that), how successful were you? Would you rather have seen them personally everyday. Do you think projects are more successful that way?
modified on Thursday, June 4, 2009 11:06 AM
Yes, I used to work for an international company with development offices distributed from France to Japan. Timezones were sometimes troublesome but otherwise it was pretty much OK - Office Communicator and Live Meetings are life savers :)
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...with people whom you have not seen or met personally? I very specifically mean software development projects. If the answer is yes (I expect many people here would have done that), how successful were you? Would you rather have seen them personally everyday. Do you think projects are more successful that way?
modified on Thursday, June 4, 2009 11:06 AM
Rama Krishna Vavilala wrote:
ith people whom you have not seen or met personally? I very specifically mean software development projects.
Yes. I've done work with engineers in S.Korea and Japan that I've never met even though I've traveled to both countries many times.
Rama Krishna Vavilala wrote:
how successful were you?
Outrageously. :) In one case the client big wigs in Japan took us (but sadly not their own engineers) out to the most lavish meal I've ever had. I am sure the bill was more than I have spend on meals in five years.
Rama Krishna Vavilala wrote:
Would you rather have seen them personally everyday.
No. Personal chit chats are distracting for me. I don't like to hang out or do team things. I'd much rather spend my lunch time playing trains with my son or kickboxing.
Rama Krishna Vavilala wrote:
Do you think projects are more successful that way?
Mine have been. Simply because there was focus and hard deadlines. If we didn't make them, we lost money.
Sovereign ingredient for a happy marriage: Pay cash or do without. Interest charges not only eat up a household budget; awareness of debt eats up domestic felicity. --Lazarus Long Avoid the crowd. Do your own thinking independently. Be the chess player, not the chess piece. --Ralph Charell
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Yes, I used to work for an international company with development offices distributed from France to Japan. Timezones were sometimes troublesome but otherwise it was pretty much OK - Office Communicator and Live Meetings are life savers :)
Nemanja Trifunovic wrote:
Office Communicator
What a crap!
The narrow specialist in the broad sense of the word is a complete idiot in the narrow sense of the word. Advertise here – minimum three posts per day are guaranteed.
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...with people whom you have not seen or met personally? I very specifically mean software development projects. If the answer is yes (I expect many people here would have done that), how successful were you? Would you rather have seen them personally everyday. Do you think projects are more successful that way?
modified on Thursday, June 4, 2009 11:06 AM
A project - no (since the work can be endless), a task - yes. Do you adopt the Agile method of working? i.e. working in short iterations?
Having a bad bug day? Find answers this way... --- Elle A Du Shell -- For regular Riverblade Product (Visual Lint) updates follow me on Twitter
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...with people whom you have not seen or met personally? I very specifically mean software development projects. If the answer is yes (I expect many people here would have done that), how successful were you? Would you rather have seen them personally everyday. Do you think projects are more successful that way?
modified on Thursday, June 4, 2009 11:06 AM
Yes. Good enough for the time. No, but once or twice might have helped. No idea. It's good to see the people you work with now and then, just to help you remember that they're actually people and not bots programmed to annoy you when you're trying to think.
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Nemanja Trifunovic wrote:
Office Communicator
What a crap!
The narrow specialist in the broad sense of the word is a complete idiot in the narrow sense of the word. Advertise here – minimum three posts per day are guaranteed.
Deyan Georgiev wrote:
What a crap!
Why? Worked just fine for us - we didn't use telephone at all.
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...with people whom you have not seen or met personally? I very specifically mean software development projects. If the answer is yes (I expect many people here would have done that), how successful were you? Would you rather have seen them personally everyday. Do you think projects are more successful that way?
modified on Thursday, June 4, 2009 11:06 AM
No. I have always worked directly with either users or a project manager.
I didn't get any requirements for the signature
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...with people whom you have not seen or met personally? I very specifically mean software development projects. If the answer is yes (I expect many people here would have done that), how successful were you? Would you rather have seen them personally everyday. Do you think projects are more successful that way?
modified on Thursday, June 4, 2009 11:06 AM
Yes; from my perspective, the project was a complete success. I built an application around an interface, for which the customer then supplied their own implementation. I demonstrated the interface with a fill-in application. I've not seen the final product, as their implementation was going to be a rather long project and may not be complete. It would have been easier if we could have communicated directly every day. This was a contract job for me, so I was working in the evenings and on the weekends. Also, the customer was a couple hundred miles away, which made direct meetings difficult. Our communications were usually e-mails, and a few phone calls. This is a case where the approach worked. It's not one I advocate, because it adds difficulty and delay.
Software Zen:
delete this; -
...with people whom you have not seen or met personally? I very specifically mean software development projects. If the answer is yes (I expect many people here would have done that), how successful were you? Would you rather have seen them personally everyday. Do you think projects are more successful that way?
modified on Thursday, June 4, 2009 11:06 AM
For a while, I worked for a defense contractor. Northrop-Grumman (in Virginia) got the contract to continue development of AHLTA (one of the most expensive pile ($10 BILLION so far) of crap applications you'd ever want to see - millions of lines of code written in VB.Net), and our little group was tasked with converting parts of our (C++/MFC) troop readiness application into a COM object. Our primary problem was that they would change the interfaces without telling us, and then it was OUR fault that our code suddenly stopped working. I hated working with them (as a group) - or more accurately - around them, because we were treated like the red-headed step-child on the project. This was two years ago, and I vowed at that time I'd never again work on a project that was in any way associated with Northrop-Grumman, and as far as I'm concerned, AHLTA is a pointless piece of crap. On the other hand, the fact that it's crap probably isn't the programmers' faults (if you've ever worked on a federal government software project, you'll know exactly what I'm talking about).
"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
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"...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001 -
...with people whom you have not seen or met personally? I very specifically mean software development projects. If the answer is yes (I expect many people here would have done that), how successful were you? Would you rather have seen them personally everyday. Do you think projects are more successful that way?
modified on Thursday, June 4, 2009 11:06 AM
I've done successful projects where I only met the developers for an initial meeting and two follow-up meetings during the last two months of the project. It worked out fine except for the fact that we made some big design change requests half-way through the project which resulted in a 8/10 instead of a 10/10 on the project. But that was mostly our fault for not being able to predict the future :D I think the success was mostly due to the skill level of the developers (3 seasoned C++ developers) and the project wasn't too large so I was able to provide a decent design spec that got us what we wanted.
Todd Smith
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I've done successful projects where I only met the developers for an initial meeting and two follow-up meetings during the last two months of the project. It worked out fine except for the fact that we made some big design change requests half-way through the project which resulted in a 8/10 instead of a 10/10 on the project. But that was mostly our fault for not being able to predict the future :D I think the success was mostly due to the skill level of the developers (3 seasoned C++ developers) and the project wasn't too large so I was able to provide a decent design spec that got us what we wanted.
Todd Smith
I have recently finished a project that included 3 teams in 3 states. We met once at the beginning of the project and that was all the face to face time we got. Of course the application we finished with wasn't even remotly close to what we started with. And as for seeing them daily? It was probably a good thing that we were in different states :)
It's not my fault you suck.
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...with people whom you have not seen or met personally? I very specifically mean software development projects. If the answer is yes (I expect many people here would have done that), how successful were you? Would you rather have seen them personally everyday. Do you think projects are more successful that way?
modified on Thursday, June 4, 2009 11:06 AM
I had to provide code support in California for a project in the UK. Most of the time, email was sufficient method of communications. A few times I had to stay late and talk to them via instant messenger. That wasn't too bad. We were able to get the product out on schedule. I think the advantages of daily associations are obvious. One advantage of long distance communications is that the other developers don't see the problems the way you do (developers who work more closely together will, over time, look at problems the same way) and will bring a different perspective to the project. Of course, it also depends on who is the 'alpha dog'.
m.bergman
-- For Bruce Schneier, quanta only have one state : afraid.
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For a while, I worked for a defense contractor. Northrop-Grumman (in Virginia) got the contract to continue development of AHLTA (one of the most expensive pile ($10 BILLION so far) of crap applications you'd ever want to see - millions of lines of code written in VB.Net), and our little group was tasked with converting parts of our (C++/MFC) troop readiness application into a COM object. Our primary problem was that they would change the interfaces without telling us, and then it was OUR fault that our code suddenly stopped working. I hated working with them (as a group) - or more accurately - around them, because we were treated like the red-headed step-child on the project. This was two years ago, and I vowed at that time I'd never again work on a project that was in any way associated with Northrop-Grumman, and as far as I'm concerned, AHLTA is a pointless piece of crap. On the other hand, the fact that it's crap probably isn't the programmers' faults (if you've ever worked on a federal government software project, you'll know exactly what I'm talking about).
"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
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"...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001That sounds like an awful lot of the software projects I worked on for the DoD back in the 80's. There were simulation apps back then that had been under continuous development since the 1960's and never completed. I wouldn't be surprised if some of there were still being developed.
Software Zen:
delete this;
Fold With Us![^] -
Rama Krishna Vavilala wrote:
ith people whom you have not seen or met personally? I very specifically mean software development projects.
Yes. I've done work with engineers in S.Korea and Japan that I've never met even though I've traveled to both countries many times.
Rama Krishna Vavilala wrote:
how successful were you?
Outrageously. :) In one case the client big wigs in Japan took us (but sadly not their own engineers) out to the most lavish meal I've ever had. I am sure the bill was more than I have spend on meals in five years.
Rama Krishna Vavilala wrote:
Would you rather have seen them personally everyday.
No. Personal chit chats are distracting for me. I don't like to hang out or do team things. I'd much rather spend my lunch time playing trains with my son or kickboxing.
Rama Krishna Vavilala wrote:
Do you think projects are more successful that way?
Mine have been. Simply because there was focus and hard deadlines. If we didn't make them, we lost money.
Sovereign ingredient for a happy marriage: Pay cash or do without. Interest charges not only eat up a household budget; awareness of debt eats up domestic felicity. --Lazarus Long Avoid the crowd. Do your own thinking independently. Be the chess player, not the chess piece. --Ralph Charell
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...with people whom you have not seen or met personally? I very specifically mean software development projects. If the answer is yes (I expect many people here would have done that), how successful were you? Would you rather have seen them personally everyday. Do you think projects are more successful that way?
modified on Thursday, June 4, 2009 11:06 AM
Yes, I collaborated with a guy in a forum to modify / add on extra functionality to some software he wrote. I'd say that the project was a success. We communicated through email and im, but I think direct face to face communication would still be better.
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...with people whom you have not seen or met personally? I very specifically mean software development projects. If the answer is yes (I expect many people here would have done that), how successful were you? Would you rather have seen them personally everyday. Do you think projects are more successful that way?
modified on Thursday, June 4, 2009 11:06 AM
did I ever - yes successful - moderately rather see them every day - not particularly more successful - not necessarily
Multi famam, conscientiam pauci verentur.(Pliny)
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When you say "people", do you mean users, fellow devs, managers, QAs, etc? That can make a significant difference. Successfully, as in "did the project meet its goals?" - Yes Successfully, as in "did you like it and would you like to do it again?" - No
Rama Krishna Vavilala wrote:
Would you rather have seen them personally everyday
I wouldn't insist on seeing them *every* day, but personally I feel it helps a great deal if a developer were to talk directly to the end user.
Cheers, Vikram.
Recent activities: TV series: Friends, season 6 Books: Freakonomics, by Steven Levitt and Stephen J Dubner.
Carpe Diem.
Devs talking to end users is an oversimplification. Our current website was designed and constructed by a firm in San Francisco... We are in San Diego... The only people we met were the account rep and the leads for design, development, and project management. Speaking as a dev manageron the client side, I didn't need to meet any of them in person. Would I do it again? Sure. The one thing I would do differently is use a truly collaborative workspace instead of one way gotomeeting/webex sessions from them to us. I tried to explain ui behavior using still screen shots and they just didn't get it. I currently have an offshore development relationship with a vendor... And I friggin hate it. The time difference, the language barrier and the cultural barrier (that seems to encourage doing the absolute minimum with zero thought to innovation, creativity or efficiency) makes it a miserable experience.