UK Democracy
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Isn't it amazing that if Gordon Brown, (British PM), stands down, he'll never have been elected (by the electorate by any kind of vote), to the post and never be voted out through any meaningful democractic process involving the the UK Electorate. He'll have been in and out of power, leaving us in a recession with one of the most dysfunctional governments of recent times and none of 'the people' will have actually had anything at all to do with it, or been able to do anything about it. Hows that for modern British politics in action? A least Michael Foot can now rest happy as he's no longer the most spectacularly unsuccessful leader of the Labour party in history, (Gerald Kaufman, once Harold Wilson's press officer and during the 1980s a key player on the Labour right, described the 1983 Labour manifesto as "the longest suicide note in history"), - I mean, the Conservatives in Wales winning any popular vote at all for the first time in history is a pretty special screw up, especially when the last time labour didn't win a majority in any electoral process in Wales was 1918 and it was the Liberals who beat them to it then. It's also quite comedic that both Tony Blair and Gordon Brown were, (as newly elected MP's), actually in support of the 1983 Labour manifesto - above, "the longest suicide note in history". Still, as they say, better out than in - and the sooner the better, I'd rather see Sooty and Sweep in Downing Street about now than the muppets currently residing there. ...and breathe... Aaahhh...
Rhys "The trouble with having an open mind, of course, is that people will insist on coming along and trying to put things in it" They say a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, but it's not one half so bad as a lot of ignorance." Terry Pratchett
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Isn't it amazing that if Gordon Brown, (British PM), stands down, he'll never have been elected (by the electorate by any kind of vote), to the post and never be voted out through any meaningful democractic process involving the the UK Electorate. He'll have been in and out of power, leaving us in a recession with one of the most dysfunctional governments of recent times and none of 'the people' will have actually had anything at all to do with it, or been able to do anything about it. Hows that for modern British politics in action? A least Michael Foot can now rest happy as he's no longer the most spectacularly unsuccessful leader of the Labour party in history, (Gerald Kaufman, once Harold Wilson's press officer and during the 1980s a key player on the Labour right, described the 1983 Labour manifesto as "the longest suicide note in history"), - I mean, the Conservatives in Wales winning any popular vote at all for the first time in history is a pretty special screw up, especially when the last time labour didn't win a majority in any electoral process in Wales was 1918 and it was the Liberals who beat them to it then. It's also quite comedic that both Tony Blair and Gordon Brown were, (as newly elected MP's), actually in support of the 1983 Labour manifesto - above, "the longest suicide note in history". Still, as they say, better out than in - and the sooner the better, I'd rather see Sooty and Sweep in Downing Street about now than the muppets currently residing there. ...and breathe... Aaahhh...
Rhys "The trouble with having an open mind, of course, is that people will insist on coming along and trying to put things in it" They say a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, but it's not one half so bad as a lot of ignorance." Terry Pratchett
goblinTech wrote:
if Gordon Brown, (British PM), stands down, he'll never have been elected (by the electorate by any kind of vote), to the post and never be voted out through any meaningful democractic process
You may not have noticed, but we are not America. We don't elect a leader, we elect a party and they are free to elect their leader. Its a slight, but important distinction.
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goblinTech wrote:
if Gordon Brown, (British PM), stands down, he'll never have been elected (by the electorate by any kind of vote), to the post and never be voted out through any meaningful democractic process
You may not have noticed, but we are not America. We don't elect a leader, we elect a party and they are free to elect their leader. Its a slight, but important distinction.
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goblinTech wrote:
if Gordon Brown, (British PM), stands down, he'll never have been elected (by the electorate by any kind of vote), to the post and never be voted out through any meaningful democractic process
You may not have noticed, but we are not America. We don't elect a leader, we elect a party and they are free to elect their leader. Its a slight, but important distinction.
Whilst that is true, the vast majority of people neither understand nor care about the intricacies of constitutional law. If he goes now Labour will suffer less than should he stay till the very last. The public will not forgive Brown for not going when he should and they would not forgive yet another unwanted PM foisted on us when it is plain that Labour should simply go. My preference would be a Tory government with a 20-30 majority - a small enough margin that they would have to work at being a government and not become a dictatorship as 'New Labour' have done.
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goblinTech wrote:
if Gordon Brown, (British PM), stands down, he'll never have been elected (by the electorate by any kind of vote), to the post and never be voted out through any meaningful democractic process
You may not have noticed, but we are not America. We don't elect a leader, we elect a party and they are free to elect their leader. Its a slight, but important distinction.
That may be so, but the role of 'Prime Minister' has extended beyond the role of Leader of the ruling party gradually since the early 1960's and many argue that there is now a defacto British 'presidency' by nature of the appointments made. By this I mean that a Prime Minister will routinely entrench their position by surrounding themselves by strong supporters, buffering themselves from large portions of the process by which they could be forced to stand down or be de-selected. Just to be a pedant as well, sorry :-), the Prime Minister leads a political party, commands a majority in the House of Commons and is the leader of the Cabinet (the Executive), they aren't chosen post the election process unless the incumbant leader stands down, dies or is removed. Essentially, the Prime Minister isn't generally 'chosen' by their party in the way you intimate and since Thatcher has been used as a selling point in choosing a political party to vote for. I'm still in two minds whether this is lack of knowledge of the constitutional process by those doing the electing or if it is a deliberate ploy utilised by political parties snce they have made far greater use of marketting agencies and the like in the planning and running of campaigns. Obviously other than that you are entirely correct, however I still question if, in relatively modern times - say the last 100 years or so, there has in fact been a Prime Minister who has has not stood before the British eloctorate during a general election on their way in and out of power, and whether this is in itself is an influence on the decicions now coming out of No. 10. [edit]I really should pay more attention to my spelling and grammer - sorry! :-)[/edit]
Rhys "The trouble with having an open mind, of course, is that people will insist on coming along and trying to put things in it" They say a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, but it's not one half so bad as a lot of ignorance." Terry Pratchett
modified on Monday, June 8, 2009 11:44 AM
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goblinTech wrote:
if Gordon Brown, (British PM), stands down, he'll never have been elected (by the electorate by any kind of vote), to the post and never be voted out through any meaningful democractic process
You may not have noticed, but we are not America. We don't elect a leader, we elect a party and they are free to elect their leader. Its a slight, but important distinction.
J4amieC wrote:
We don't elect a leader, we elect a party
Just to be pedantic but we don't actually elect a party. We actually vote for an individual. You end up voting for John Brown not for Labour. and if john is a member of Labour that's his choice.