Results are official
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Oakman wrote:
It worries me somewhat that Hezbolla per se wasn't beaten. They won the seats they expected to win. It was their Christian allies, the Aounists, that got their asses kicked.
I think your analysis is wrong. It is already known who is going to win the muslim seets in the parliament (64 out of the 128) so there wasnt any real battle there. It was more of a consensus to Hizb(Shiite) and Future Movement (Sunni) . The real battle was for the christian seats which is the other 64 seats and the Mr.Aoun lost misreably. Yes he did win 34 seets out of the 64 but the margin between his group and his comptetors is less than 500 votes in each district. So he may have won saets but he doesnt have the consensus of the Christian votes which is what counts in lebanese politics.
Oakman wrote:
Lebanon was once a refuge for Arab Christians. I gather they have been driven out.
Lebanon has always been a refuge for minorities whether christian, jews and mulsim minorites (like the Druze)in the region because of its arab and non-arab cultues. But things are not the same since the Syrian occupation in Leb
Bassam Saoud wrote:
I think your analysis is wrong.
You go on to say what I said; The Hezbolah won the seats they were expected to win. The Auoinists got their asses kicked. On what do we disagree?
Bassam Saoud wrote:
But things are not the same since the Syrian occupation in Leb
Should I take that as a yes, the Christians (and Jews, of course) are being driven out?
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Both democrats and republicans are playing for the same team and it's not us. - Chris Austin
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Bassam Saoud wrote:
I think your analysis is wrong.
You go on to say what I said; The Hezbolah won the seats they were expected to win. The Auoinists got their asses kicked. On what do we disagree?
Bassam Saoud wrote:
But things are not the same since the Syrian occupation in Leb
Should I take that as a yes, the Christians (and Jews, of course) are being driven out?
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Both democrats and republicans are playing for the same team and it's not us. - Chris Austin
Oakman wrote:
You go on to say what I said; The Hezbolah won the seats they were expected to win. The Auoinists got their asses kicked. On what do we disagree?
I was trying to make the point that having the Shiite seats back is not a victory to them as that is a given. basically no competition. It seemed to me that you thought that was an accomplishment.
Oakman wrote:
Should I take that as a yes, the Christians (and Jews, of course) are being driven out?
Christians and jews had easier option to immigrate but most immigrants and this by the way made a huge difference for the first time, they came back and voted ! But I do agree with you that definetly the political situation during the Syrian era encouraged immigration...
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Oakman wrote:
You go on to say what I said; The Hezbolah won the seats they were expected to win. The Auoinists got their asses kicked. On what do we disagree?
I was trying to make the point that having the Shiite seats back is not a victory to them as that is a given. basically no competition. It seemed to me that you thought that was an accomplishment.
Oakman wrote:
Should I take that as a yes, the Christians (and Jews, of course) are being driven out?
Christians and jews had easier option to immigrate but most immigrants and this by the way made a huge difference for the first time, they came back and voted ! But I do agree with you that definetly the political situation during the Syrian era encouraged immigration...
Bassam Saoud wrote:
It seemed to me that you thought that was an accomplishment
Usually, if I say someone did as they expected to do, I am not remarking on an acoomplishment. If I say 'better than expected,' I am pointing out an accomplishment. Isn't that they way you think, too?
Bassam Saoud wrote:
Christians and jews had easier option to immigrate but most immigrants and this by the way made a huge difference for the first time, they came back and voted
And did they then leave again?
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Both democrats and republicans are playing for the same team and it's not us. - Chris Austin
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Bassam Saoud wrote:
It seemed to me that you thought that was an accomplishment
Usually, if I say someone did as they expected to do, I am not remarking on an acoomplishment. If I say 'better than expected,' I am pointing out an accomplishment. Isn't that they way you think, too?
Bassam Saoud wrote:
Christians and jews had easier option to immigrate but most immigrants and this by the way made a huge difference for the first time, they came back and voted
And did they then leave again?
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Both democrats and republicans are playing for the same team and it's not us. - Chris Austin
Oakman wrote:
Usually, if I say someone did as they expected to do, I am not remarking on an acoomplishment. If I say 'better than expected,' I am pointing out an accomplishment. Isn't that they way you think, too?
Thank you for clarifying your commment
Oakman wrote:
And did they then leave again?
very funny...
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Oakman wrote:
Usually, if I say someone did as they expected to do, I am not remarking on an acoomplishment. If I say 'better than expected,' I am pointing out an accomplishment. Isn't that they way you think, too?
Thank you for clarifying your commment
Oakman wrote:
And did they then leave again?
very funny...
Bassam Saoud wrote:
Thank you for clarifying your commment
Just trying to help you overcome the language gap.
Bassam Saoud wrote:
very funny...
I wasn't being funny. Your use of the word "immigrant" was confusing since it implies moving to a foregn country with the intention of staying there. For instance, the Palestinians locked up behind barbed wire in Lebanon are not immigrants, but refugees. Whereas the Lebanese folks who just opened a restaraunt in the nexct town over are immigrants and have no intention of returning to the homeland.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Both democrats and republicans are playing for the same team and it's not us. - Chris Austin
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Bassam Saoud wrote:
Thank you for clarifying your commment
Just trying to help you overcome the language gap.
Bassam Saoud wrote:
very funny...
I wasn't being funny. Your use of the word "immigrant" was confusing since it implies moving to a foregn country with the intention of staying there. For instance, the Palestinians locked up behind barbed wire in Lebanon are not immigrants, but refugees. Whereas the Lebanese folks who just opened a restaraunt in the nexct town over are immigrants and have no intention of returning to the homeland.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Both democrats and republicans are playing for the same team and it's not us. - Chris Austin
Did you not like your Kabob last week, Is that what the problem is between us?
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Did you not like your Kabob last week, Is that what the problem is between us?
Bassam Saoud wrote:
Is that what the problem is between us
You have a problem with me? Why is that? Shouldn't I ask for clarification when I am confused? You seem awfully touchy.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Both democrats and republicans are playing for the same team and it's not us. - Chris Austin
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Bassam Saoud wrote:
Is that what the problem is between us
You have a problem with me? Why is that? Shouldn't I ask for clarification when I am confused? You seem awfully touchy.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Both democrats and republicans are playing for the same team and it's not us. - Chris Austin
Oakman wrote:
You have a problem with me? Why is that?
You are an American pig, an infidel.
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Oakman wrote:
You have a problem with me? Why is that?
You are an American pig, an infidel.
hmmm , maybe that is what you think?
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hmmm , maybe that is what you think?
Bassam Saoud wrote:
hmmm , maybe that is what you think?
Well I don't think too highly of Oakman, not because he is an American.
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Bassam Saoud wrote:
I think your analysis is wrong.
You go on to say what I said; The Hezbolah won the seats they were expected to win. The Auoinists got their asses kicked. On what do we disagree?
Bassam Saoud wrote:
But things are not the same since the Syrian occupation in Leb
Should I take that as a yes, the Christians (and Jews, of course) are being driven out?
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Both democrats and republicans are playing for the same team and it's not us. - Chris Austin
Oakman wrote:
Should I take that as a yes, the Christians (and Jews, of course) are being driven out?
No, they are not being driven out and they can't be driven out. In Lebanon Christians are not a minority. The breakdown is roughly Christian : 39% (of which 25% is maronite 14% others) Sunni : 28% Shia : 28% Since the Sunni and Shia do not see themselves as one group, you can say Christian are the largest religious group. Even if the sunni and shia make their peace and are counted as one group (which will never happen) 39% is a very strong and powerful minority. Figures from CIA factbook are as follows : Muslim 59.7% (Shia, Sunni, Druze, Isma'ilite, Alawite or Nusayri) Christian 39% (Maronite Catholic, Greek Orthodox, Melkite Catholic, Armenian Orthodox, Syrian Catholic, Armenian Catholic, Syrian Orthodox, Roman Catholic, Chaldean, Assyrian, Copt, Protestant), other 1.3%
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Bassam Saoud wrote:
Is that what the problem is between us
You have a problem with me? Why is that? Shouldn't I ask for clarification when I am confused? You seem awfully touchy.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Both democrats and republicans are playing for the same team and it's not us. - Chris Austin
No man , we are cool you know that. Between nice clip about Michel Aoun's created after the election. Just a hint, Michel Aoun's party colour is orange: Party is Over[^]
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Oakman wrote:
Should I take that as a yes, the Christians (and Jews, of course) are being driven out?
No, they are not being driven out and they can't be driven out. In Lebanon Christians are not a minority. The breakdown is roughly Christian : 39% (of which 25% is maronite 14% others) Sunni : 28% Shia : 28% Since the Sunni and Shia do not see themselves as one group, you can say Christian are the largest religious group. Even if the sunni and shia make their peace and are counted as one group (which will never happen) 39% is a very strong and powerful minority. Figures from CIA factbook are as follows : Muslim 59.7% (Shia, Sunni, Druze, Isma'ilite, Alawite or Nusayri) Christian 39% (Maronite Catholic, Greek Orthodox, Melkite Catholic, Armenian Orthodox, Syrian Catholic, Armenian Catholic, Syrian Orthodox, Roman Catholic, Chaldean, Assyrian, Copt, Protestant), other 1.3%
Actually Your numbers are not accurate. they only account for lebanese residing in lebanon. If you count Lebanese immigrants, there are 8 million christian lebanese in Brazil and hundred of thousands in the states alone.
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Bassam Saoud wrote:
Is that what the problem is between us
You have a problem with me? Why is that? Shouldn't I ask for clarification when I am confused? You seem awfully touchy.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Both democrats and republicans are playing for the same team and it's not us. - Chris Austin
Oakman wrote:
You seem awfully touchy.
It's because you are trying to make him say something you want to hear. He already explained to you the pro west coalition won beacuse the Christians did not vote for the Christian party , they voted for the pro western coalition which is led by Saad Hariri a Sunni politician. In Lebanon the Sunnis are the pro westen group. The Shia (Amal , Hezbollah) and the Free Patriotic Movement(Aoun's party) are pro Syria.
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Actually Your numbers are not accurate. they only account for lebanese residing in lebanon. If you count Lebanese immigrants, there are 8 million christian lebanese in Brazil and hundred of thousands in the states alone.
Yes but I think most of them emigrated to other countries because of economic reasons not because they felt threatened in Lebanon. BTW, are you Maronite ?
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Yes but I think most of them emigrated to other countries because of economic reasons not because they felt threatened in Lebanon. BTW, are you Maronite ?
Yes Economial reason is part of it but 15+ years of war (1975 - 2005) played a major role in it
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Oakman wrote:
Should I take that as a yes, the Christians (and Jews, of course) are being driven out?
No, they are not being driven out and they can't be driven out. In Lebanon Christians are not a minority. The breakdown is roughly Christian : 39% (of which 25% is maronite 14% others) Sunni : 28% Shia : 28% Since the Sunni and Shia do not see themselves as one group, you can say Christian are the largest religious group. Even if the sunni and shia make their peace and are counted as one group (which will never happen) 39% is a very strong and powerful minority. Figures from CIA factbook are as follows : Muslim 59.7% (Shia, Sunni, Druze, Isma'ilite, Alawite or Nusayri) Christian 39% (Maronite Catholic, Greek Orthodox, Melkite Catholic, Armenian Orthodox, Syrian Catholic, Armenian Catholic, Syrian Orthodox, Roman Catholic, Chaldean, Assyrian, Copt, Protestant), other 1.3%
Sahir Shah wrote:
In Lebanon Christians are not a minority. The breakdown is roughly Christian : 39% (of which 25% is maronite 14% others) Sunni : 28% Shia : 28%
Interesting. I did not know that. Thanks.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Both democrats and republicans are playing for the same team and it's not us. - Chris Austin
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Actually Your numbers are not accurate. they only account for lebanese residing in lebanon. If you count Lebanese immigrants, there are 8 million christian lebanese in Brazil and hundred of thousands in the states alone.
Bassam Saoud wrote:
If you count Lebanese immigrants
Same question: Are these guys true immigrants, i.e. have moved to a different country - or are they expatriates, i.e. still citizens of Lebanon but living abroad. By the way, to immigrate means to move into a new area. To emigrate means to move out of an area. i.e. I immigrated to South Carolina a few years ago. I emigrated from Massachusetts.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Both democrats and republicans are playing for the same team and it's not us. - Chris Austin
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Bassam Saoud wrote:
If you count Lebanese immigrants
Same question: Are these guys true immigrants, i.e. have moved to a different country - or are they expatriates, i.e. still citizens of Lebanon but living abroad. By the way, to immigrate means to move into a new area. To emigrate means to move out of an area. i.e. I immigrated to South Carolina a few years ago. I emigrated from Massachusetts.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Both democrats and republicans are playing for the same team and it's not us. - Chris Austin
Many countries around the world allows dual citizenship i.e. you for example can be a citizen of both US and Canada.I am not sure where you get the Idea that if you immigrate to a country , you are abondoing your mother nationality. Lebanese are very proud of their pheonician culture - They tend to pass it on to their children and so on. Let me give you an idea. shakira , the famous pop female singer, is a columbian of Lebanese descent. She is a daughter of a lebanese man. She have been raised as a columbian. In 2007 or so, she came back to check out her country that her parents always talk about...
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Oakman wrote:
You seem awfully touchy.
It's because you are trying to make him say something you want to hear. He already explained to you the pro west coalition won beacuse the Christians did not vote for the Christian party , they voted for the pro western coalition which is led by Saad Hariri a Sunni politician. In Lebanon the Sunnis are the pro westen group. The Shia (Amal , Hezbollah) and the Free Patriotic Movement(Aoun's party) are pro Syria.
Sahir Shah wrote:
It's because you are trying to make him say something you want to hear.
No, I'm not. I am trying to understand something. Assuming you can attribute motives to words is the kind of thing that Ilion and CSS do quite frequently. Be careful it's a slippery slope - you can end up using asterisks and wearing tinfoil. ;)
Sahir Shah wrote:
He already explained to you the pro west coalition won beacuse the Christians did not vote for the Christian party
It has suddenly occurred to me that it may be that Christians vote for the Christian seats and Muslims vote for the Muslim seats - is that correct? The idea did not occur to me until I went back to see if there was something that he said that could be interpreted as "beacuse the Christians did not vote for the Christian party."
Sahir Shah wrote:
In Lebanon the Sunnis are the pro westen group. The Shia (Amal , Hezbollah) and the Free Patriotic Movement(Aoun's party) are pro Syria.
I understood all of that, it is the mechanics of your election that seems to have baffled me.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Both democrats and republicans are playing for the same team and it's not us. - Chris Austin