Results are official
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Bassam Saoud wrote:
I think your analysis is wrong.
You go on to say what I said; The Hezbolah won the seats they were expected to win. The Auoinists got their asses kicked. On what do we disagree?
Bassam Saoud wrote:
But things are not the same since the Syrian occupation in Leb
Should I take that as a yes, the Christians (and Jews, of course) are being driven out?
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Both democrats and republicans are playing for the same team and it's not us. - Chris Austin
Oakman wrote:
Should I take that as a yes, the Christians (and Jews, of course) are being driven out?
No, they are not being driven out and they can't be driven out. In Lebanon Christians are not a minority. The breakdown is roughly Christian : 39% (of which 25% is maronite 14% others) Sunni : 28% Shia : 28% Since the Sunni and Shia do not see themselves as one group, you can say Christian are the largest religious group. Even if the sunni and shia make their peace and are counted as one group (which will never happen) 39% is a very strong and powerful minority. Figures from CIA factbook are as follows : Muslim 59.7% (Shia, Sunni, Druze, Isma'ilite, Alawite or Nusayri) Christian 39% (Maronite Catholic, Greek Orthodox, Melkite Catholic, Armenian Orthodox, Syrian Catholic, Armenian Catholic, Syrian Orthodox, Roman Catholic, Chaldean, Assyrian, Copt, Protestant), other 1.3%
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Bassam Saoud wrote:
Is that what the problem is between us
You have a problem with me? Why is that? Shouldn't I ask for clarification when I am confused? You seem awfully touchy.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Both democrats and republicans are playing for the same team and it's not us. - Chris Austin
No man , we are cool you know that. Between nice clip about Michel Aoun's created after the election. Just a hint, Michel Aoun's party colour is orange: Party is Over[^]
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Oakman wrote:
Should I take that as a yes, the Christians (and Jews, of course) are being driven out?
No, they are not being driven out and they can't be driven out. In Lebanon Christians are not a minority. The breakdown is roughly Christian : 39% (of which 25% is maronite 14% others) Sunni : 28% Shia : 28% Since the Sunni and Shia do not see themselves as one group, you can say Christian are the largest religious group. Even if the sunni and shia make their peace and are counted as one group (which will never happen) 39% is a very strong and powerful minority. Figures from CIA factbook are as follows : Muslim 59.7% (Shia, Sunni, Druze, Isma'ilite, Alawite or Nusayri) Christian 39% (Maronite Catholic, Greek Orthodox, Melkite Catholic, Armenian Orthodox, Syrian Catholic, Armenian Catholic, Syrian Orthodox, Roman Catholic, Chaldean, Assyrian, Copt, Protestant), other 1.3%
Actually Your numbers are not accurate. they only account for lebanese residing in lebanon. If you count Lebanese immigrants, there are 8 million christian lebanese in Brazil and hundred of thousands in the states alone.
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Bassam Saoud wrote:
Is that what the problem is between us
You have a problem with me? Why is that? Shouldn't I ask for clarification when I am confused? You seem awfully touchy.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Both democrats and republicans are playing for the same team and it's not us. - Chris Austin
Oakman wrote:
You seem awfully touchy.
It's because you are trying to make him say something you want to hear. He already explained to you the pro west coalition won beacuse the Christians did not vote for the Christian party , they voted for the pro western coalition which is led by Saad Hariri a Sunni politician. In Lebanon the Sunnis are the pro westen group. The Shia (Amal , Hezbollah) and the Free Patriotic Movement(Aoun's party) are pro Syria.
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Actually Your numbers are not accurate. they only account for lebanese residing in lebanon. If you count Lebanese immigrants, there are 8 million christian lebanese in Brazil and hundred of thousands in the states alone.
Yes but I think most of them emigrated to other countries because of economic reasons not because they felt threatened in Lebanon. BTW, are you Maronite ?
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Yes but I think most of them emigrated to other countries because of economic reasons not because they felt threatened in Lebanon. BTW, are you Maronite ?
Yes Economial reason is part of it but 15+ years of war (1975 - 2005) played a major role in it
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Oakman wrote:
Should I take that as a yes, the Christians (and Jews, of course) are being driven out?
No, they are not being driven out and they can't be driven out. In Lebanon Christians are not a minority. The breakdown is roughly Christian : 39% (of which 25% is maronite 14% others) Sunni : 28% Shia : 28% Since the Sunni and Shia do not see themselves as one group, you can say Christian are the largest religious group. Even if the sunni and shia make their peace and are counted as one group (which will never happen) 39% is a very strong and powerful minority. Figures from CIA factbook are as follows : Muslim 59.7% (Shia, Sunni, Druze, Isma'ilite, Alawite or Nusayri) Christian 39% (Maronite Catholic, Greek Orthodox, Melkite Catholic, Armenian Orthodox, Syrian Catholic, Armenian Catholic, Syrian Orthodox, Roman Catholic, Chaldean, Assyrian, Copt, Protestant), other 1.3%
Sahir Shah wrote:
In Lebanon Christians are not a minority. The breakdown is roughly Christian : 39% (of which 25% is maronite 14% others) Sunni : 28% Shia : 28%
Interesting. I did not know that. Thanks.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Both democrats and republicans are playing for the same team and it's not us. - Chris Austin
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Actually Your numbers are not accurate. they only account for lebanese residing in lebanon. If you count Lebanese immigrants, there are 8 million christian lebanese in Brazil and hundred of thousands in the states alone.
Bassam Saoud wrote:
If you count Lebanese immigrants
Same question: Are these guys true immigrants, i.e. have moved to a different country - or are they expatriates, i.e. still citizens of Lebanon but living abroad. By the way, to immigrate means to move into a new area. To emigrate means to move out of an area. i.e. I immigrated to South Carolina a few years ago. I emigrated from Massachusetts.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Both democrats and republicans are playing for the same team and it's not us. - Chris Austin
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Bassam Saoud wrote:
If you count Lebanese immigrants
Same question: Are these guys true immigrants, i.e. have moved to a different country - or are they expatriates, i.e. still citizens of Lebanon but living abroad. By the way, to immigrate means to move into a new area. To emigrate means to move out of an area. i.e. I immigrated to South Carolina a few years ago. I emigrated from Massachusetts.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Both democrats and republicans are playing for the same team and it's not us. - Chris Austin
Many countries around the world allows dual citizenship i.e. you for example can be a citizen of both US and Canada.I am not sure where you get the Idea that if you immigrate to a country , you are abondoing your mother nationality. Lebanese are very proud of their pheonician culture - They tend to pass it on to their children and so on. Let me give you an idea. shakira , the famous pop female singer, is a columbian of Lebanese descent. She is a daughter of a lebanese man. She have been raised as a columbian. In 2007 or so, she came back to check out her country that her parents always talk about...
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Oakman wrote:
You seem awfully touchy.
It's because you are trying to make him say something you want to hear. He already explained to you the pro west coalition won beacuse the Christians did not vote for the Christian party , they voted for the pro western coalition which is led by Saad Hariri a Sunni politician. In Lebanon the Sunnis are the pro westen group. The Shia (Amal , Hezbollah) and the Free Patriotic Movement(Aoun's party) are pro Syria.
Sahir Shah wrote:
It's because you are trying to make him say something you want to hear.
No, I'm not. I am trying to understand something. Assuming you can attribute motives to words is the kind of thing that Ilion and CSS do quite frequently. Be careful it's a slippery slope - you can end up using asterisks and wearing tinfoil. ;)
Sahir Shah wrote:
He already explained to you the pro west coalition won beacuse the Christians did not vote for the Christian party
It has suddenly occurred to me that it may be that Christians vote for the Christian seats and Muslims vote for the Muslim seats - is that correct? The idea did not occur to me until I went back to see if there was something that he said that could be interpreted as "beacuse the Christians did not vote for the Christian party."
Sahir Shah wrote:
In Lebanon the Sunnis are the pro westen group. The Shia (Amal , Hezbollah) and the Free Patriotic Movement(Aoun's party) are pro Syria.
I understood all of that, it is the mechanics of your election that seems to have baffled me.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Both democrats and republicans are playing for the same team and it's not us. - Chris Austin
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Many countries around the world allows dual citizenship i.e. you for example can be a citizen of both US and Canada.I am not sure where you get the Idea that if you immigrate to a country , you are abondoing your mother nationality. Lebanese are very proud of their pheonician culture - They tend to pass it on to their children and so on. Let me give you an idea. shakira , the famous pop female singer, is a columbian of Lebanese descent. She is a daughter of a lebanese man. She have been raised as a columbian. In 2007 or so, she came back to check out her country that her parents always talk about...
Bassam Saoud wrote:
you for example can be a citizen of both US and Canada.
No thanks. ;) And don't scare the Canadians like that.
Bassam Saoud wrote:
I am not sure where you get the Idea that if you immigrate to a country , you are abondoing your mother nationality.
I'm not sure one can abandon one's nationality - at least as the word is used today. However, I got the idea that immigrate means to make a move to another area because that's what it means. At least as I understand it, "expatriate" is the correct term to describe someone living in a foreign country who still owes his allegiance to his mother country. By the way, anyone who is a U.S. citizen and who obtains naturalization in a foreign country loses hisher citizenship. I believe the reverse is also true. To become a citizen of the United States one must renounce allegiance to any foreign government. Dual citizenship does hold where the person is recognized by another country as being a citizen without that person doing anything to obtain that status.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Both democrats and republicans are playing for the same team and it's not us. - Chris Austin
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Bassam Saoud wrote:
you for example can be a citizen of both US and Canada.
No thanks. ;) And don't scare the Canadians like that.
Bassam Saoud wrote:
I am not sure where you get the Idea that if you immigrate to a country , you are abondoing your mother nationality.
I'm not sure one can abandon one's nationality - at least as the word is used today. However, I got the idea that immigrate means to make a move to another area because that's what it means. At least as I understand it, "expatriate" is the correct term to describe someone living in a foreign country who still owes his allegiance to his mother country. By the way, anyone who is a U.S. citizen and who obtains naturalization in a foreign country loses hisher citizenship. I believe the reverse is also true. To become a citizen of the United States one must renounce allegiance to any foreign government. Dual citizenship does hold where the person is recognized by another country as being a citizen without that person doing anything to obtain that status.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Both democrats and republicans are playing for the same team and it's not us. - Chris Austin
Oakman wrote:
By the way, anyone who is a U.S. citizen and who obtains naturalization in a foreign country loses hisher citizenship
I dont believe this is true. US Constitution says nothing explicitly about dual citizenship at all. Indeed, in its 1967 ruling in Afroyim v. Rusk, the Supreme Court used an argument derived from the 14th Amendment to the Constitution to affirm a right to dual citizenship Afroyim v. Rusk, 387 U.S. 253 (1967) [^] Many Americans of lebanese origins actively participate in lebanese politics.
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Oakman wrote:
By the way, anyone who is a U.S. citizen and who obtains naturalization in a foreign country loses hisher citizenship
I dont believe this is true. US Constitution says nothing explicitly about dual citizenship at all. Indeed, in its 1967 ruling in Afroyim v. Rusk, the Supreme Court used an argument derived from the 14th Amendment to the Constitution to affirm a right to dual citizenship Afroyim v. Rusk, 387 U.S. 253 (1967) [^] Many Americans of lebanese origins actively participate in lebanese politics.
Bassam Saoud wrote:
I dont believe this is true.
You should have read further. It's pretty clear from your own citation that anyone who is naturalized in a foreign country that requires him/her to renounce prior allegiences loses their citizenship. There is apparently a gray area where someone can say "I didn't really mean it when I renounced" - and renounce the other citizenship, thereby whereby he can reclaim U.S. citizenship. However the oath of allegiance to the United State of America, required to be sworn by every naturalized citizen requires that they renounce any allegiance to any other government.
Bassam Saoud wrote:
Many Americans of lebanese origins actively participate in lebanese politics.
If you mean they are citizens as opposed legal aliens and by participate you mean vote in Lebanese elections, they're risking their status. If they simply hold green cards of work visas, then they are expats and can do as they please, of course.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Both democrats and republicans are playing for the same team and it's not us. - Chris Austin