Programming for my kids
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How do I start my two daughters on programming - their ages are 11 and 8. The elder one knows how to browse the Internet. Long back, when I started with Fortran IV, it was pretty easy. But now, where to start? I think it should be C (leaving pointers aside), but give your thoughts. - Amarnath
Amarnath S wrote:
I think it should be C
Yes, it must be
C: the only language for real men, I mean, not a kid toy, not a language for sissies......oooops :rolleyes:If the Lord God Almighty had consulted me before embarking upon the Creation, I would have recommended something simpler. -- Alfonso the Wise, 13th Century King of Castile.
This is going on my arrogant assumptions. You may have a superb reason why I'm completely wrong. -- Iain Clarke
[My articles] -
That's not a bad idea. Start with some basic static HTML, move onto css, than java script, then possibly C# with ASP.Net A natural progression that will give a thorough grounding. What kid wouldn't be proud and excited by their very own home designed web site?
Dave
BTW, in software, hope and pray is not a viable strategy. (Luc Pattyn)
Visual Basic is not used by normal people so we're not covering it here. (Uncyclopedia)
Why are you using VB6? Do you hate yourself? (Christian Graus)I know it goes against the grain at this site, but PHP might be a better choice than C# for an backend language. When buying hosting for anything they/their friends do for themselves cheap is going to be the watchword, and cheap means the lamp stack.
It is a truth universally acknowledged that a zombie in possession of brains must be in want of more brains. -- Pride and Prejudice and Zombies
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How do I start my two daughters on programming - their ages are 11 and 8. The elder one knows how to browse the Internet. Long back, when I started with Fortran IV, it was pretty easy. But now, where to start? I think it should be C (leaving pointers aside), but give your thoughts. - Amarnath
After the thread last week I was thinking that Perl might be a good first language. I haven't used it very much, but you can start out with very simple, unstructured programs, like when I first learned BASIC (on a PDP-11, in 1983). You don't need to explain about namespaces, functions, and datatypes until basic program flow is mastered. There's no boiler-plate code required as there is in the C family of languages. And yet the language is used in industry so the knowledge may not go to waste.
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How do I start my two daughters on programming - their ages are 11 and 8. The elder one knows how to browse the Internet. Long back, when I started with Fortran IV, it was pretty easy. But now, where to start? I think it should be C (leaving pointers aside), but give your thoughts. - Amarnath
I started teaching my 7 yrold son Python and he likes it and understands it. CLI is the way to go, imo.
Later, JoeSox CPMCv1.0 - Last.fm - MyFriendfeed - Joesox.com
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Honestly I've been programming all my life since I was about 12 years old and if I had kids I wouldn't bother even trying. There's little future in it at this point and it's going to be very tedious for them unless they are truly interested. I'd lean more towards things like learning computer animation or making games (something child level of course) or music because all those things on a good app involve a little programming type tasks (not as we know it but still the same skills at least macros) and they can then pursue it deeper if they find they have an interest in doing so. Programming itself as we know it close to the hardware has no real future and it takes a very specialized type of person to be interested in it for it's own sake and the odds that both your kids have that interest and skill set are not great.
"Creating your own blog is about as easy as creating your own urine, and you're about as likely to find someone else interested in it." -- Lore Sjöberg
Took half a page for someone to finally say it. Unless the kids are actually interested in it, there is no point in teaching them programming other than developing their logic skills. I'm going to be a pessimist and say that career prospects in software development are becoming rather grim. If I ever have kids of my own I would never push them into developing just to pet my pride. There are fields that require less work and bring in more money. All it takes is some social skills, something that many developers, including myself (working to change it), lack.
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I vote websites or Python. Websites = high visibility, fast rewards, scalable difficulty, creative Python = interpreter for instant gratification, ubiquitous syntax, scripting OR applications
Or even websites with Python :-) That's teh way I do dynamic websites, anyway!
Java, Basic, who cares - it's all a bunch of tree-hugging hippy cr*p
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I vote websites or Python. Websites = high visibility, fast rewards, scalable difficulty, creative Python = interpreter for instant gratification, ubiquitous syntax, scripting OR applications
I have mixed feeling about Python, it's easy to use but a little slow, and there's a fair bit of memory overhead on all your python objects. It's also evil. And the core Python code? Not a happy place. Still, it's always good for a quick test and whatnot, though I usually use c# for that. Personally I would never write a large application in Python either, but there are those that have. I guess I don't have mixed feelings after all, I just don't like Python that much. On the bright side though, it's better than Perl! (I had my first run in with Perl last week, I was not a happy person)
My current favourite word is: Delicious!
-SK Genius
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I knew that looked familiar, but had to look it up. Yea, interrupt driven multitasking in MS DOS. Those were the days.
Been there, done that, wrote bimodal interrupt handlers under the same DOS extender used to write the original DOOM.
Software Zen:
delete this;
Fold With Us![^] -
How do I start my two daughters on programming - their ages are 11 and 8. The elder one knows how to browse the Internet. Long back, when I started with Fortran IV, it was pretty easy. But now, where to start? I think it should be C (leaving pointers aside), but give your thoughts. - Amarnath
I'd seriously look at GameMaker Here[^] OK - it's mainly drag and drop to start with - but that gives the kids the chance to achieve something tangible early on - and they need to think about the design and logic etc. It's free for the lite version - and only $25 for the pro if they keep it up. It contains a programming language built in - so they can expand upon teh built-in possibilities as their experience and confidence grow. I don't have much experience with it myself, but I know of schools which use it very successfully as an introduction to programming.
___________________________________________ .\\axxx (That's an 'M')
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How do I start my two daughters on programming - their ages are 11 and 8. The elder one knows how to browse the Internet. Long back, when I started with Fortran IV, it was pretty easy. But now, where to start? I think it should be C (leaving pointers aside), but give your thoughts. - Amarnath
Kids need immediate gratification to hold their interest; website "programming" would be a natural. Trying to make the leap from nothing into raw programming will frustrate them. Teach them all the neat things they can do with HTML, add CSS, then let them "discover" scripting as a tool to make their website do cool things. Start with the built-in IIS installation that Windows offers, then when they want to share with their friends (they will), get them their own domains and hosting accounts to play with. Daddy will need to be the administrator, of course... That's going to win them a lot of points with their friends, and that will motivate them to go beyond what you can teach them. :-D Great idea, BTW. Kids all know how to use computers these days, but I'm sure a kid who can make a PC jump through hoops will be very admired, so long as social skills aren't neglected along the way.
"A Journey of a Thousand Rest Stops Begins with a Single Movement"
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How do I start my two daughters on programming - their ages are 11 and 8. The elder one knows how to browse the Internet. Long back, when I started with Fortran IV, it was pretty easy. But now, where to start? I think it should be C (leaving pointers aside), but give your thoughts. - Amarnath
Alice Alice is an innovative 3D programming environment that makes it easy to create an animation for telling a story, playing an interactive game, or a video to share on the web. Alice is a teaching tool for introductory computing. It uses 3D graphics and a drag-and-drop interface to facilitate a more engaging, less frustrating first programming experience.
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How do I start my two daughters on programming - their ages are 11 and 8. The elder one knows how to browse the Internet. Long back, when I started with Fortran IV, it was pretty easy. But now, where to start? I think it should be C (leaving pointers aside), but give your thoughts. - Amarnath
I have an 8 and 11 year old starting on Scratch. It is very simple and offers immediate feedback. I will be taking the older one to C++ after that. http://scratch.mit.edu/[^] This is the site at MIT where the Scratch community keeps its code. Some nice stuff there for kids. My 8 year old has a kitten chase a dog, my 11 year old copied it and had a dragon fly in and flame them both. Good luck, the language does not matter as much as the motivation.
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How do I start my two daughters on programming - their ages are 11 and 8. The elder one knows how to browse the Internet. Long back, when I started with Fortran IV, it was pretty easy. But now, where to start? I think it should be C (leaving pointers aside), but give your thoughts. - Amarnath
maybe let them start with something like www.hascanvas.com, its a small set of commands, and they would immediately see the results of what they do. unfortunately it doesnt have an intelli-sense like thing, which i would find very helpfull especially for programming beginners. if you sit there with them, you could easily explain concepts like loops, recursion etc. there is also a framework for java, that lets kids draw stuff by commands, i started with that back when i was younger. unfortunately i forgot the name of it.
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How do I start my two daughters on programming - their ages are 11 and 8. The elder one knows how to browse the Internet. Long back, when I started with Fortran IV, it was pretty easy. But now, where to start? I think it should be C (leaving pointers aside), but give your thoughts. - Amarnath
I would start with Scratch. i think its scratch.mit.edu. It allows for immediate results but gives them the very basic knowledge needed for programming. If they are into that move onto Phrogram. Then I would probably do java or c#.
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Something which I just thought of. Interrupt driven multitasking. What other ways are there?
Between the idea And the reality Between the motion And the act Falls the Shadow
Pre-emptive?
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I'd seriously look at GameMaker Here[^] OK - it's mainly drag and drop to start with - but that gives the kids the chance to achieve something tangible early on - and they need to think about the design and logic etc. It's free for the lite version - and only $25 for the pro if they keep it up. It contains a programming language built in - so they can expand upon teh built-in possibilities as their experience and confidence grow. I don't have much experience with it myself, but I know of schools which use it very successfully as an introduction to programming.
___________________________________________ .\\axxx (That's an 'M')
I did extra credit and we could use either scratch or game maker. I found gamemaker way to confusing I personally would recommend Scratch. In game maker I spent 2 hours looking at tutorials before i decided it wasnt worth the time. In scratch I spent maybe 15 minutes and made a fairly simple game.
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How do I start my two daughters on programming - their ages are 11 and 8. The elder one knows how to browse the Internet. Long back, when I started with Fortran IV, it was pretty easy. But now, where to start? I think it should be C (leaving pointers aside), but give your thoughts. - Amarnath
25 years ago, I started with Logo and then moved to Basic. I loved Logo, watching the turtle move was inspiring and fun. The later move to basic was a leap ahead. I still believe this is the right way today too. MS Small Basic seems like a great start, basic programming principals, graphics, eventing, they have also includes Logo implementation which is awesome. IMHO definitely worth a try. Web: http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/devlabs/cc950524.aspx[^] User guide: http://download.microsoft.com/download/9/0/6/90616372-C4BF-4628-BC82-BD709635220D/Introducing%20Small%20Basic.pdf[^] Boulderdash
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You're skipping a step. You start by finding out if they have any enthusiasm for it and if not, looking for ways to fire that curiosity and passion in them. Without an eager desire on their part, it's just drudgery no different than scraping an old coat of paint off the back fence. In such a case, there is no language or technology on the planet that will make a difference. Once they're interested, however, the rest comes easily.
Christopher Duncan www.PracticalUSA.com Author of The Career Programmer and Unite the Tribes Got a career question? Ask the Attack Chihuahua!
I think you can feed them enthusiasm, but it must happen a lot earlier than 7 and 11. Kids always look up to their parents. Before teenage, as a parent, you are a god. Thus when your kids ask what you're doing behind the computer, you shouldn't say "Daddy's busy dear. Go play with your toys.", but rather take a pause and explain a little about what you're doing. The tone should also be enthusiastic. I know I tend to listen more carefully to someone who is enthusiastic about what they're doing. I love explaining stuff to kids. If you give them a bit of your energy, they'll listen. Can't imagine a better audience.
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How do I start my two daughters on programming - their ages are 11 and 8. The elder one knows how to browse the Internet. Long back, when I started with Fortran IV, it was pretty easy. But now, where to start? I think it should be C (leaving pointers aside), but give your thoughts. - Amarnath
Thanks for all the replies. I never knew that there was such a wide range of languages. I have shortlisted Alice (Also considering Scratch, I have'nt yet downloaded it). Yes - I realize that kids learning should be fun, and these two seem to be the fun ones, educative too. A good way to unleash the creativity inherent in kids. Let me get started ... - Amarnath
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How do I start my two daughters on programming - their ages are 11 and 8. The elder one knows how to browse the Internet. Long back, when I started with Fortran IV, it was pretty easy. But now, where to start? I think it should be C (leaving pointers aside), but give your thoughts. - Amarnath