Top Indian CEO: Most American Grads Are ‘Unemployable’
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I disagree with that generalisation. I don't think 'getting rich' is the be-all and end-all of every country. Prestige in your career (or even having a career), or simply supporting your family in a comfortable way are enough in some countries.
cheers, Chris Maunder The Code Project Co-founder Microsoft C++ MVP
The same generalization is equally untrue in the US. For instance, I've been a programmer for 30 years. I like doing it, and have no interest in being any type of manager (beyond being a team lead). This prevents me from making the "big bucks". I'm happy with my 5-figure salary, which is significantly short of being a 6-figure salary. Besides all that, I was just being a smart-ass. I contemplate mentioning the use of elephant teeth and shiny rocks as viable currency in India, but I was already kinda bored with the whole thing. :)
"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
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"...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001 -
Doctor Nick wrote:
John's head would explode if people learned to code from the people that gave us WPF...
It's not the people who brought us WPF that are the problem. The problem is that things like WPF and Visual Studio are being designed for people who post the 'PLZ HLP! SND THE CODZS!' messages.
Sovereign ingredient for a happy marriage: Pay cash or do without. Interest charges not only eat up a household budget; awareness of debt eats up domestic felicity. --Lazarus Long Avoid the crowd. Do your own thinking independently. Be the chess player, not the chess piece. --Ralph Charell
What's really scary is that the MSDN forums are now RIFE with posts that start out with the phrase, "I'm not a programmer, but I need help..."
"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
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"...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001 -
What's really scary is that the MSDN forums are now RIFE with posts that start out with the phrase, "I'm not a programmer, but I need help..."
"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
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"...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001 -
Doctor Nick wrote:
John's head would explode if people learned to code from the people that gave us WPF...
It's not the people who brought us WPF that are the problem. The problem is that things like WPF and Visual Studio are being designed for people who post the 'PLZ HLP! SND THE CODZS!' messages.
Sovereign ingredient for a happy marriage: Pay cash or do without. Interest charges not only eat up a household budget; awareness of debt eats up domestic felicity. --Lazarus Long Avoid the crowd. Do your own thinking independently. Be the chess player, not the chess piece. --Ralph Charell
Chris Austin wrote:
are being designed
Designed? ;) Marc
I'm not overthinking the problem, I just felt like I needed a small, unimportant, uninteresting rant! - Martin Hart Turner
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Rich in some places is 'Not Living in a Box in a building site'
------------------------------------ "When Belly Full, Chin Hit Chest" Confucius 502BC
Wow. I didn't realise Luton was that grim these days ...
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Chris Austin wrote:
are being designed
Designed? ;) Marc
I'm not overthinking the problem, I just felt like I needed a small, unimportant, uninteresting rant! - Martin Hart Turner
Marc Clifton wrote:
Designed
For a second there my I thought I had misspelled it :D
Sovereign ingredient for a happy marriage: Pay cash or do without. Interest charges not only eat up a household budget; awareness of debt eats up domestic felicity. --Lazarus Long Avoid the crowd. Do your own thinking independently. Be the chess player, not the chess piece. --Ralph Charell
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From the Insider: Top Indian CEO: Most American Grads Are ‘Unemployable’[^] "Many American grads looking to enter the tech field are preoccupied with getting rich, Vineet said. They're far less inclined than students from developing countries like India, China, Brazil, South Africa, and Ireland to spend their time learning the "boring" details of tech process, methodology, and tools--ITIL, Six Sigma, and the like."
cheers, Chris Maunder The Code Project Co-founder Microsoft C++ MVP
Ireland is not a developing country, and nor (I suspect) is South Africa. Also, Six Sigma is not a tech process, methodology or tool (it's a business management strategy: translation, it's a gimmick jumped onto by managers who think it will be macho to say they've got a blackbelt).
"WPF has many lovers. It's a veritable porn star!" - Josh Smith
As Braveheart once said, "You can take our freedom but you'll never take our Hobnobs!" - Martin Hughes.
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What's really scary is that the MSDN forums are now RIFE with posts that start out with the phrase, "I'm not a programmer, but I need help..."
"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
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"...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001For that reason I've always been torn between actually keeping up my coding skills and going to the darkside of GUI coding. Why work my $#5 off just so some joe college can come out and do something similar with half as much thought. Now, 90% of the time joe college is going to see his design break more often but that's his job security. Code generators are great as long as you know what they're generating but too many noobs today don't care what's being generated just that it works. Man, better put that rant tag on there...
------------------------------------- Do not do what has already been done. Absolute power corrupts absolutely.. but it ROCKS absolutely, too.
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Wow. I didn't realise Luton was that grim these days ...
10110011001111101010101000001000001101001010001010100000100000101000001000111100010110001011001011
:laugh: Not quite that bad, but I am looking forward to tunneling out.
------------------------------------ "When Belly Full, Chin Hit Chest" Confucius 502BC
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What's really scary is that the MSDN forums are now RIFE with posts that start out with the phrase, "I'm not a programmer, but I need help..."
"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
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"...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001It's all together depressing. Recently I've heard comments like: "it's not like programmers are especially skilled, given enough time anybody can write code". I think the future refuge for those of us who really enjoy programming will be systems programming where we can do actual engineering. I see business apps being written by sectaries and admins.
Sovereign ingredient for a happy marriage: Pay cash or do without. Interest charges not only eat up a household budget; awareness of debt eats up domestic felicity. --Lazarus Long Avoid the crowd. Do your own thinking independently. Be the chess player, not the chess piece. --Ralph Charell
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What's really scary is that the MSDN forums are now RIFE with posts that start out with the phrase, "I'm not a programmer, but I need help..."
"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
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"...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote:
"I'm not a programmer, but I need help..."
Only in this world of WYSIWYG, code droplets, wizards and "< technology of your choice > for Dummies" do we get the Designer/Non-programmer weeping for help on forums. Macromedia/Adobe/Microsoft have designed and marketed the tools for/toward non-programmers and we bear the burden of support. I remember the day that the designer of a rather complicated web application told me that he had taken the complex search capabilities out of the model layer and was doing it all in his animated Flash menu!!! He was an effin' genius, trying to steal coding hours away from the development team. It worked great until he couldn't figure out the ORACLE queries and his Flash "guy" quit! I used to bill the customer for answering the Flash guy's questions on Macromedia's Flash forum. :-\
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From the Insider: Top Indian CEO: Most American Grads Are ‘Unemployable’[^] "Many American grads looking to enter the tech field are preoccupied with getting rich, Vineet said. They're far less inclined than students from developing countries like India, China, Brazil, South Africa, and Ireland to spend their time learning the "boring" details of tech process, methodology, and tools--ITIL, Six Sigma, and the like."
cheers, Chris Maunder The Code Project Co-founder Microsoft C++ MVP
Chris Maunder wrote:
Six Sigma
Billions of blistering barnacles... Yeah, forget about getting people who can actually write and test their own code, let's get us some more starry-eyed methodology wonks. We're all doomed. I'm growing vegetables for the long winter ahead...
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From the Insider: Top Indian CEO: Most American Grads Are ‘Unemployable’[^] "Many American grads looking to enter the tech field are preoccupied with getting rich, Vineet said. They're far less inclined than students from developing countries like India, China, Brazil, South Africa, and Ireland to spend their time learning the "boring" details of tech process, methodology, and tools--ITIL, Six Sigma, and the like."
cheers, Chris Maunder The Code Project Co-founder Microsoft C++ MVP
I don't know if the grads are to blame but more so the Universities and the advisers. I have a friend who is few years younger than me, graduated 2005 with an IT degree from a top technical school. She learned nothing... Nada... Niet... Completely unemployable on the degree. Apparently, they will quite happily take your money and let you take a whole bunch of disconnected classes. So that you have enough credits but no knowledge or base in any area of IT... Astounding really.
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He's wrong. Students in developing countries are also concerned with getting rich. It's just that the "rich" bar is a lot lower for them than in the US. For instance, $5 would make some of them quite wealthy in comparison to their countrymen.
"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
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"...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001Then why do countries with so many unemployed people have to import skilled engineers? The bane of universities in the UK is people going for soft degrees ('media studies' is the favourite) then expect the world to give them an easy life. There is more and more talk about introducing work for welfare, we should see some movement of this after the next election.
Visit http://www.notreadytogiveup.com/[^] and do something special today.
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It's all together depressing. Recently I've heard comments like: "it's not like programmers are especially skilled, given enough time anybody can write code". I think the future refuge for those of us who really enjoy programming will be systems programming where we can do actual engineering. I see business apps being written by sectaries and admins.
Sovereign ingredient for a happy marriage: Pay cash or do without. Interest charges not only eat up a household budget; awareness of debt eats up domestic felicity. --Lazarus Long Avoid the crowd. Do your own thinking independently. Be the chess player, not the chess piece. --Ralph Charell
Never fear. There will always be a job throwing away the admin's code and staring over again, properly.
10110011001111101010101000001000001101001010001010100000100000101000001000111100010110001011001011
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Ireland is not a developing country, and nor (I suspect) is South Africa. Also, Six Sigma is not a tech process, methodology or tool (it's a business management strategy: translation, it's a gimmick jumped onto by managers who think it will be macho to say they've got a blackbelt).
"WPF has many lovers. It's a veritable porn star!" - Josh Smith
As Braveheart once said, "You can take our freedom but you'll never take our Hobnobs!" - Martin Hughes.
-
He's wrong. Students in developing countries are also concerned with getting rich. It's just that the "rich" bar is a lot lower for them than in the US. For instance, $5 would make some of them quite wealthy in comparison to their countrymen.
"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
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"...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001I'm actualy going to have to agree with the poster honestly. When one leaves school, you have high expectations of getting that top job, with the great figures, however the cold harsh reality is that you have to work for it. I'm not saying it doesn't happen with the lucky ones, but there is alot of businesses that won't hire a student at the figures they ask unless said student has the experience. Another thing is the lack of "wanting to do the dirty work." because I came from so-n-so school.
John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote:
He's wrong. Students in developing countries are also concerned with getting rich. It's just that the "rich" bar is a lot lower for them than in the US. For instance, $5 would make some of them quite wealthy in comparison to their countrymen.
///////////////// Groucho Marx Those are my principals, if you don't like them… I have others.
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Never fear. There will always be a job throwing away the admin's code and staring over again, properly.
10110011001111101010101000001000001101001010001010100000100000101000001000111100010110001011001011
MidwestLimey wrote:
Never fear. There will always be a job throwing away the admin's code and staring over again, properly.
This I find completely unappealing. But, when push comes to shove, if necessary I'd do it.
Sovereign ingredient for a happy marriage: Pay cash or do without. Interest charges not only eat up a household budget; awareness of debt eats up domestic felicity. --Lazarus Long Avoid the crowd. Do your own thinking independently. Be the chess player, not the chess piece. --Ralph Charell
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Then why do countries with so many unemployed people have to import skilled engineers? The bane of universities in the UK is people going for soft degrees ('media studies' is the favourite) then expect the world to give them an easy life. There is more and more talk about introducing work for welfare, we should see some movement of this after the next election.
Visit http://www.notreadytogiveup.com/[^] and do something special today.
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Then why do countries with so many unemployed people have to import skilled engineers? The bane of universities in the UK is people going for soft degrees ('media studies' is the favourite) then expect the world to give them an easy life. There is more and more talk about introducing work for welfare, we should see some movement of this after the next election.
Visit http://www.notreadytogiveup.com/[^] and do something special today.
Human laziness aside, I think less people want to go into engineering because it has becoming less worth the effort. Engineering salaries have been debased for the last decade and there is no greater sense of employment security than working as a cashier at starbucks.
Sovereign ingredient for a happy marriage: Pay cash or do without. Interest charges not only eat up a household budget; awareness of debt eats up domestic felicity. --Lazarus Long Avoid the crowd. Do your own thinking independently. Be the chess player, not the chess piece. --Ralph Charell