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A real Mess

Scheduled Pinned Locked Moved The Weird and The Wonderful
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  • N NormDroid

    Very well put :) I wouldn't even use the word 'programmer' in the same sense as VB, more like 'user'. VB - curse of many bad project implementations.

    Software Kinetics (requires SL3 beta) - Moving software

    D Offline
    D Offline
    DoctorMick
    wrote on last edited by
    #17

    In fairness, a lot of bad implementations are done in other languages, I dare say there are as many shocking apps developed in C# as there are VB.Net.

    N 1 Reply Last reply
    0
    • D Dave Kreskowiak

      :WTF: is your problem?? All I did was bring up something I saw in a documentery about artillery and it's reliablilty and maintainability, and you think I'm picking on the Germans? Dude, back then, during the war, they tended to over-engineer their weapons. That's all I'm saying...

      A guide to posting questions on CodeProject[^]
      Dave Kreskowiak Microsoft MVP Visual Developer - Visual Basic
           2006, 2007, 2008

      A Offline
      A Offline
      Alessandro Bernardi
      wrote on last edited by
      #18

      I agree with you ;) And what's about an italian like me? Would you like me to speak about spaghetti code? :laugh: Luckly italian people does not always write spaghetti as they eat!! :P

      L 1 Reply Last reply
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      • E ed welch

        Well, that code brings me back to the 90's. Typical "journeyman programmer" production. The journeyman programmer doesn't care about software engineering or improving the skills in their trade, just hack away until it works... eventually they work up their way to be project manager and leave the crap to someone else to maintain X|. Don't let it get to you too much the first 20 years are the worse :laugh:

        V Offline
        V Offline
        Vozzie2
        wrote on last edited by
        #19

        14 more to go, i hope i'll make it... :~

        It feels good to learn and achieve

        1 Reply Last reply
        0
        • B Bernard Laplace

          This is just one method, but do not expect it to be short... :sigh: I spent my days debugging this kind of code... X|

          Sub GridView1_RowDataBound(ByVal sender As Object, ByVal e As GridViewRowEventArgs)
          Dim i As Integer
          Dim r As Integer
          Dim sEmployeeID As String
          Dim dDateFrom As DateTime = Convert.ToDateTime(DateFrom.Text)
          Dim dDateTo As DateTime = Convert.ToDateTime(DateTo.Text)
          Dim dDateCurrent As Date = dDateFrom
          Dim sConsultantInfoDay As String = ""
          Dim sProjectInfo1 As String = ""
          Dim sProjectInfo2 As String = ""
          Dim sProject As String = ""
          Dim DateEnd As Object
          Dim DaysNoticeExt As Object
          Dim sColor1 As String = "#FFFFFF"
          Dim sColor2 As String = "#FFFFFF"
          Dim PreviousColor As String = "#FFFFFF"
          Dim hl As New HyperLink
          Dim lb As New Label
          Dim lb2 As New Label
          Dim iDayofWeek As Integer
          Dim sDayName As String
          Dim sExit As String
          Dim bgColor As Drawing.Color
          Dim sColorProject As String = "#FFFFFF"
          Dim bTSClosed As Boolean
          Dim Hours As Double
          Dim HoursClientMonth As Double
          Dim HoursMonth As Double
          Dim HoursTBPMonth As Double
          Dim HoursInternalMonth As Double
          Dim DailyHoursTBP As Double
          Dim TSID As Integer
          Dim oEmpDateStart As Object
          Dim oEmpDateEnd As Object
          Dim bClientProject As Boolean = False
          Dim bProjectFoundMonth As Boolean = False
          Dim WorkPerc As Double
          Dim sHoliday As String
          Dim ProjectID As Integer
          Dim TotalHoursMonth As Double
          Dim dteRenewal, dteCurrentNotification, dteCurrentEndProj As DateTime
          Dim intRenewalCpt As Integer = -1
          Dim blnIsFirstTime As Boolean = True
          Dim intRenewsEachNbMonths As Integer

          	Select Case e.Row.RowType
          		Case DataControlRowType.Header
          			Dim iMonth As Integer
          			e.Row.Cells(0).Visible = False
          			e.Row.Cells(1).Visible = False
          			e.Row.Cells(2).Visible = False
          			e.Row.Cells(3).Visible = False
          			e.Row.Cells(iColDaysStart - 1).Width = ConsultantColWidth
          			e.Row.Cells(iColDaysStart - 1).Text = sEmployeeHeader
          			e.Row.Cells(iColDaysStart - 1).Font.Size = iFontSizeEmployees
          			e.Row.Cells(iColDaysStart - 1).Font.Bold = True
          			e.Row.Cells(iColDaysStart - 1).ForeColor = Drawing.Color.White
          			e.Row.Cells(iColDaysStart - 1).BackColor = Drawing.Color.DarkBlue
          
          			i = iColDaysStart
          			Do While dDateCurrent <= dDateTo
          				iMonth = dDateCurrent.Month
          				sDayName = WeekdayName(DatePart("w", dDateCurrent), True, Microsoft.VisualBasic.FirstDayOfWeek.Sunday)
          				e.Row.Cells(i).Text = String.Concat(Left(sDayNam
          
          J Offline
          J Offline
          Jeroen De Dauw
          wrote on last edited by
          #20

          Did the author die? ;P

          GSoC 2009 student for SMW! --- My little forums: http://code.bn2vs.com --- 70 72 6F 67 72 61 6D 6D 69 6E 67 20 34 20 6C 69 66 65!

          0 B 2 Replies Last reply
          0
          • J Jeroen De Dauw

            Did the author die? ;P

            GSoC 2009 student for SMW! --- My little forums: http://code.bn2vs.com --- 70 72 6F 67 72 61 6D 6D 69 6E 67 20 34 20 6C 69 66 65!

            0 Offline
            0 Offline
            0x3c0
            wrote on last edited by
            #21

            That depends. Did the person who maintained the code have his home address?

            Between the idea And the reality Between the motion And the act Falls the Shadow

            1 Reply Last reply
            0
            • J Jeroen De Dauw

              Did the author die? ;P

              GSoC 2009 student for SMW! --- My little forums: http://code.bn2vs.com --- 70 72 6F 67 72 61 6D 6D 69 6E 67 20 34 20 6C 69 66 65!

              B Offline
              B Offline
              Bernard Laplace
              wrote on last edited by
              #22

              Well I have his home address, but I believe he's already dead, at least his brain was when he 'coded' this.

              1 Reply Last reply
              0
              • D Dave Kreskowiak

                :WTF: is your problem?? All I did was bring up something I saw in a documentery about artillery and it's reliablilty and maintainability, and you think I'm picking on the Germans? Dude, back then, during the war, they tended to over-engineer their weapons. That's all I'm saying...

                A guide to posting questions on CodeProject[^]
                Dave Kreskowiak Microsoft MVP Visual Developer - Visual Basic
                     2006, 2007, 2008

                B Offline
                B Offline
                Bernard Laplace
                wrote on last edited by
                #23

                French code smells cheese and has blue spots... :laugh:

                J 1 Reply Last reply
                0
                • B Bernard Laplace

                  This is just one method, but do not expect it to be short... :sigh: I spent my days debugging this kind of code... X|

                  Sub GridView1_RowDataBound(ByVal sender As Object, ByVal e As GridViewRowEventArgs)
                  Dim i As Integer
                  Dim r As Integer
                  Dim sEmployeeID As String
                  Dim dDateFrom As DateTime = Convert.ToDateTime(DateFrom.Text)
                  Dim dDateTo As DateTime = Convert.ToDateTime(DateTo.Text)
                  Dim dDateCurrent As Date = dDateFrom
                  Dim sConsultantInfoDay As String = ""
                  Dim sProjectInfo1 As String = ""
                  Dim sProjectInfo2 As String = ""
                  Dim sProject As String = ""
                  Dim DateEnd As Object
                  Dim DaysNoticeExt As Object
                  Dim sColor1 As String = "#FFFFFF"
                  Dim sColor2 As String = "#FFFFFF"
                  Dim PreviousColor As String = "#FFFFFF"
                  Dim hl As New HyperLink
                  Dim lb As New Label
                  Dim lb2 As New Label
                  Dim iDayofWeek As Integer
                  Dim sDayName As String
                  Dim sExit As String
                  Dim bgColor As Drawing.Color
                  Dim sColorProject As String = "#FFFFFF"
                  Dim bTSClosed As Boolean
                  Dim Hours As Double
                  Dim HoursClientMonth As Double
                  Dim HoursMonth As Double
                  Dim HoursTBPMonth As Double
                  Dim HoursInternalMonth As Double
                  Dim DailyHoursTBP As Double
                  Dim TSID As Integer
                  Dim oEmpDateStart As Object
                  Dim oEmpDateEnd As Object
                  Dim bClientProject As Boolean = False
                  Dim bProjectFoundMonth As Boolean = False
                  Dim WorkPerc As Double
                  Dim sHoliday As String
                  Dim ProjectID As Integer
                  Dim TotalHoursMonth As Double
                  Dim dteRenewal, dteCurrentNotification, dteCurrentEndProj As DateTime
                  Dim intRenewalCpt As Integer = -1
                  Dim blnIsFirstTime As Boolean = True
                  Dim intRenewsEachNbMonths As Integer

                  	Select Case e.Row.RowType
                  		Case DataControlRowType.Header
                  			Dim iMonth As Integer
                  			e.Row.Cells(0).Visible = False
                  			e.Row.Cells(1).Visible = False
                  			e.Row.Cells(2).Visible = False
                  			e.Row.Cells(3).Visible = False
                  			e.Row.Cells(iColDaysStart - 1).Width = ConsultantColWidth
                  			e.Row.Cells(iColDaysStart - 1).Text = sEmployeeHeader
                  			e.Row.Cells(iColDaysStart - 1).Font.Size = iFontSizeEmployees
                  			e.Row.Cells(iColDaysStart - 1).Font.Bold = True
                  			e.Row.Cells(iColDaysStart - 1).ForeColor = Drawing.Color.White
                  			e.Row.Cells(iColDaysStart - 1).BackColor = Drawing.Color.DarkBlue
                  
                  			i = iColDaysStart
                  			Do While dDateCurrent <= dDateTo
                  				iMonth = dDateCurrent.Month
                  				sDayName = WeekdayName(DatePart("w", dDateCurrent), True, Microsoft.VisualBasic.FirstDayOfWeek.Sunday)
                  				e.Row.Cells(i).Text = String.Concat(Left(sDayNam
                  
                  L Offline
                  L Offline
                  Lost User
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #24

                  I have seen worse Russian code. Best thing to do with monster code is to use some reflections on it.

                  1 Reply Last reply
                  0
                  • A Alessandro Bernardi

                    I agree with you ;) And what's about an italian like me? Would you like me to speak about spaghetti code? :laugh: Luckly italian people does not always write spaghetti as they eat!! :P

                    L Offline
                    L Offline
                    Lost User
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #25

                    LMAO! :laugh: Ever here the American sing-a-long: 'On top of old meatball...'

                    1 Reply Last reply
                    0
                    • B Bernard Laplace

                      Hoorray! I fixed it!!!! Well when the procedure found a time over 4 hours for a day it used to skip the next records for that day :doh: I am so proud that I can not resist to post the fixed method :-D

                      Sub GridView1_RowDataBound(ByVal sender As Object, ByVal e As GridViewRowEventArgs)
                      Dim i As Integer
                      Dim r As Integer
                      Dim sEmployeeID As String
                      Dim dDateFrom As DateTime = Convert.ToDateTime(DateFrom.Text)
                      Dim dDateTo As DateTime = Convert.ToDateTime(DateTo.Text)
                      Dim dDateCurrent As Date = dDateFrom
                      Dim sConsultantInfoDay As String = ""
                      Dim sProjectInfo1 As String = ""
                      Dim sProjectInfo2 As String = ""
                      Dim sProject As String = ""
                      Dim DateEnd As Object
                      Dim DaysNoticeExt As Object
                      Dim sColor1 As String = "#FFFFFF"
                      Dim sColor2 As String = "#FFFFFF"
                      Dim PreviousColor As String = "#FFFFFF"
                      Dim hl As New HyperLink
                      Dim lb As New Label
                      Dim lb2 As New Label
                      Dim iDayofWeek As Integer
                      Dim sDayName As String
                      Dim sExit As String
                      Dim bgColor As Drawing.Color
                      Dim sColorProject As String = "#FFFFFF"
                      Dim bTSClosed As Boolean
                      Dim Hours As Double
                      Dim HoursClientMonth As Double
                      Dim HoursMonth As Double
                      Dim HoursTBPMonth As Double
                      Dim HoursInternalMonth As Double
                      Dim DailyHoursTBP As Double
                      Dim TSID As Integer
                      Dim oEmpDateStart As Object
                      Dim oEmpDateEnd As Object
                      Dim bClientProject As Boolean = False
                      Dim bProjectFoundMonth As Boolean = False
                      Dim WorkPerc As Double
                      Dim sHoliday As String
                      Dim ProjectID As Integer
                      Dim TotalHoursMonth As Double
                      Dim dteRenewal, dteCurrentNotification, dteCurrentEndProj As DateTime
                      Dim intRenewalCpt As Integer = -1
                      Dim blnIsFirstTime As Boolean = True
                      Dim intRenewsEachNbMonths As Integer

                      	Select Case e.Row.RowType
                      		Case DataControlRowType.Header
                      			Dim iMonth As Integer
                      			e.Row.Cells(0).Visible = False
                      			e.Row.Cells(1).Visible = False
                      			e.Row.Cells(2).Visible = False
                      			e.Row.Cells(3).Visible = False
                      			e.Row.Cells(iColDaysStart - 1).Width = ConsultantColWidth
                      			e.Row.Cells(iColDaysStart - 1).Text = sEmployeeHeader
                      			e.Row.Cells(iColDaysStart - 1).Font.Size = iFontSizeEmployees
                      			e.Row.Cells(iColDaysStart - 1).Font.Bold = True
                      			e.Row.Cells(iColDaysStart - 1).ForeColor = Drawing.Color.White
                      			e.Row.Cells(iColDaysStart - 1).BackColor = Drawing.Color.DarkBlue
                      
                      			i = iColDaysStart
                      			Do While dDateCurrent <= dDateTo
                      				iMonth = dDateCurrent.Month
                      				sDayName = WeekdayName(DatePart("w", dDateCurrent), True, Microsoft.V
                      
                      D Offline
                      D Offline
                      Dan Neely
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #26

                      Arnaud Lhopiteau wrote:

                      I am so proud that I can not resist to post the fixed method Big Grin

                      No, 571 line long method can be considered non-broken.

                      It is a truth universally acknowledged that a zombie in possession of brains must be in want of more brains. -- Pride and Prejudice and Zombies

                      B 1 Reply Last reply
                      0
                      • D Dan Neely

                        Arnaud Lhopiteau wrote:

                        I am so proud that I can not resist to post the fixed method Big Grin

                        No, 571 line long method can be considered non-broken.

                        It is a truth universally acknowledged that a zombie in possession of brains must be in want of more brains. -- Pride and Prejudice and Zombies

                        B Offline
                        B Offline
                        Bernard Laplace
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #27

                        Well I can see I am not the only one practicing irony here, am I?

                        1 Reply Last reply
                        0
                        • D DoctorMick

                          In fairness, a lot of bad implementations are done in other languages, I dare say there are as many shocking apps developed in C# as there are VB.Net.

                          N Offline
                          N Offline
                          nullpointer 0
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #28

                          yup, I second that.

                          {}*

                          B 1 Reply Last reply
                          0
                          • B Bernard Laplace

                            French code smells cheese and has blue spots... :laugh:

                            J Offline
                            J Offline
                            jan larsen
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #29

                            And Danish code is just sweet!...

                            "God doesn't play dice" - Albert Einstein "God not only plays dice, He sometimes throws the dices where they cannot be seen" - Niels Bohr

                            1 Reply Last reply
                            0
                            • N nullpointer 0

                              yup, I second that.

                              {}*

                              B Offline
                              B Offline
                              BillW33
                              wrote on last edited by
                              #30

                              I third that. I have seen far too much bad code in many languages. :sigh: Bill W

                              Just because the code works, it doesn't mean that it is good code.

                              1 Reply Last reply
                              0
                              • B Bernard Laplace

                                Well this code has been made in Switzerland...

                                G Offline
                                G Offline
                                Gautier Boder
                                wrote on last edited by
                                #31

                                Snif :'( I vote for removing the Swiss citizenship of this programmer ;)

                                1 Reply Last reply
                                0
                                • B Bernard Laplace

                                  This is just one method, but do not expect it to be short... :sigh: I spent my days debugging this kind of code... X|

                                  Sub GridView1_RowDataBound(ByVal sender As Object, ByVal e As GridViewRowEventArgs)
                                  Dim i As Integer
                                  Dim r As Integer
                                  Dim sEmployeeID As String
                                  Dim dDateFrom As DateTime = Convert.ToDateTime(DateFrom.Text)
                                  Dim dDateTo As DateTime = Convert.ToDateTime(DateTo.Text)
                                  Dim dDateCurrent As Date = dDateFrom
                                  Dim sConsultantInfoDay As String = ""
                                  Dim sProjectInfo1 As String = ""
                                  Dim sProjectInfo2 As String = ""
                                  Dim sProject As String = ""
                                  Dim DateEnd As Object
                                  Dim DaysNoticeExt As Object
                                  Dim sColor1 As String = "#FFFFFF"
                                  Dim sColor2 As String = "#FFFFFF"
                                  Dim PreviousColor As String = "#FFFFFF"
                                  Dim hl As New HyperLink
                                  Dim lb As New Label
                                  Dim lb2 As New Label
                                  Dim iDayofWeek As Integer
                                  Dim sDayName As String
                                  Dim sExit As String
                                  Dim bgColor As Drawing.Color
                                  Dim sColorProject As String = "#FFFFFF"
                                  Dim bTSClosed As Boolean
                                  Dim Hours As Double
                                  Dim HoursClientMonth As Double
                                  Dim HoursMonth As Double
                                  Dim HoursTBPMonth As Double
                                  Dim HoursInternalMonth As Double
                                  Dim DailyHoursTBP As Double
                                  Dim TSID As Integer
                                  Dim oEmpDateStart As Object
                                  Dim oEmpDateEnd As Object
                                  Dim bClientProject As Boolean = False
                                  Dim bProjectFoundMonth As Boolean = False
                                  Dim WorkPerc As Double
                                  Dim sHoliday As String
                                  Dim ProjectID As Integer
                                  Dim TotalHoursMonth As Double
                                  Dim dteRenewal, dteCurrentNotification, dteCurrentEndProj As DateTime
                                  Dim intRenewalCpt As Integer = -1
                                  Dim blnIsFirstTime As Boolean = True
                                  Dim intRenewsEachNbMonths As Integer

                                  	Select Case e.Row.RowType
                                  		Case DataControlRowType.Header
                                  			Dim iMonth As Integer
                                  			e.Row.Cells(0).Visible = False
                                  			e.Row.Cells(1).Visible = False
                                  			e.Row.Cells(2).Visible = False
                                  			e.Row.Cells(3).Visible = False
                                  			e.Row.Cells(iColDaysStart - 1).Width = ConsultantColWidth
                                  			e.Row.Cells(iColDaysStart - 1).Text = sEmployeeHeader
                                  			e.Row.Cells(iColDaysStart - 1).Font.Size = iFontSizeEmployees
                                  			e.Row.Cells(iColDaysStart - 1).Font.Bold = True
                                  			e.Row.Cells(iColDaysStart - 1).ForeColor = Drawing.Color.White
                                  			e.Row.Cells(iColDaysStart - 1).BackColor = Drawing.Color.DarkBlue
                                  
                                  			i = iColDaysStart
                                  			Do While dDateCurrent <= dDateTo
                                  				iMonth = dDateCurrent.Month
                                  				sDayName = WeekdayName(DatePart("w", dDateCurrent), True, Microsoft.VisualBasic.FirstDayOfWeek.Sunday)
                                  				e.Row.Cells(i).Text = String.Concat(Left(sDayNam
                                  
                                  0 Offline
                                  0 Offline
                                  0x01AA
                                  wrote on last edited by
                                  #32

                                  You are almost predestined to apply a Laplace transformation ;P :laugh:

                                  1 Reply Last reply
                                  0
                                  • B Bernard Laplace

                                    This is just one method, but do not expect it to be short... :sigh: I spent my days debugging this kind of code... X|

                                    Sub GridView1_RowDataBound(ByVal sender As Object, ByVal e As GridViewRowEventArgs)
                                    Dim i As Integer
                                    Dim r As Integer
                                    Dim sEmployeeID As String
                                    Dim dDateFrom As DateTime = Convert.ToDateTime(DateFrom.Text)
                                    Dim dDateTo As DateTime = Convert.ToDateTime(DateTo.Text)
                                    Dim dDateCurrent As Date = dDateFrom
                                    Dim sConsultantInfoDay As String = ""
                                    Dim sProjectInfo1 As String = ""
                                    Dim sProjectInfo2 As String = ""
                                    Dim sProject As String = ""
                                    Dim DateEnd As Object
                                    Dim DaysNoticeExt As Object
                                    Dim sColor1 As String = "#FFFFFF"
                                    Dim sColor2 As String = "#FFFFFF"
                                    Dim PreviousColor As String = "#FFFFFF"
                                    Dim hl As New HyperLink
                                    Dim lb As New Label
                                    Dim lb2 As New Label
                                    Dim iDayofWeek As Integer
                                    Dim sDayName As String
                                    Dim sExit As String
                                    Dim bgColor As Drawing.Color
                                    Dim sColorProject As String = "#FFFFFF"
                                    Dim bTSClosed As Boolean
                                    Dim Hours As Double
                                    Dim HoursClientMonth As Double
                                    Dim HoursMonth As Double
                                    Dim HoursTBPMonth As Double
                                    Dim HoursInternalMonth As Double
                                    Dim DailyHoursTBP As Double
                                    Dim TSID As Integer
                                    Dim oEmpDateStart As Object
                                    Dim oEmpDateEnd As Object
                                    Dim bClientProject As Boolean = False
                                    Dim bProjectFoundMonth As Boolean = False
                                    Dim WorkPerc As Double
                                    Dim sHoliday As String
                                    Dim ProjectID As Integer
                                    Dim TotalHoursMonth As Double
                                    Dim dteRenewal, dteCurrentNotification, dteCurrentEndProj As DateTime
                                    Dim intRenewalCpt As Integer = -1
                                    Dim blnIsFirstTime As Boolean = True
                                    Dim intRenewsEachNbMonths As Integer

                                    	Select Case e.Row.RowType
                                    		Case DataControlRowType.Header
                                    			Dim iMonth As Integer
                                    			e.Row.Cells(0).Visible = False
                                    			e.Row.Cells(1).Visible = False
                                    			e.Row.Cells(2).Visible = False
                                    			e.Row.Cells(3).Visible = False
                                    			e.Row.Cells(iColDaysStart - 1).Width = ConsultantColWidth
                                    			e.Row.Cells(iColDaysStart - 1).Text = sEmployeeHeader
                                    			e.Row.Cells(iColDaysStart - 1).Font.Size = iFontSizeEmployees
                                    			e.Row.Cells(iColDaysStart - 1).Font.Bold = True
                                    			e.Row.Cells(iColDaysStart - 1).ForeColor = Drawing.Color.White
                                    			e.Row.Cells(iColDaysStart - 1).BackColor = Drawing.Color.DarkBlue
                                    
                                    			i = iColDaysStart
                                    			Do While dDateCurrent <= dDateTo
                                    				iMonth = dDateCurrent.Month
                                    				sDayName = WeekdayName(DatePart("w", dDateCurrent), True, Microsoft.VisualBasic.FirstDayOfWeek.Sunday)
                                    				e.Row.Cells(i).Text = String.Concat(Left(sDayNam
                                    
                                    G Offline
                                    G Offline
                                    GKP1992
                                    wrote on last edited by
                                    #33

                                    Most code is like Dr.Frankenstein's mosnter. The only difference between good monster and bad monster is the good one has it's legs and hands and all else where they should be.

                                    1 Reply Last reply
                                    0
                                    • D Dave Kreskowiak

                                      :WTF: is your problem?? All I did was bring up something I saw in a documentery about artillery and it's reliablilty and maintainability, and you think I'm picking on the Germans? Dude, back then, during the war, they tended to over-engineer their weapons. That's all I'm saying...

                                      A guide to posting questions on CodeProject[^]
                                      Dave Kreskowiak Microsoft MVP Visual Developer - Visual Basic
                                           2006, 2007, 2008

                                      C Offline
                                      C Offline
                                      charlieg
                                      wrote on last edited by
                                      #34

                                      that's just too funny. I guess he's a bit cranky. I happen to be a bit of an armor historian buff, and the big, bad German tanks of ww2 were mostly junk. Credit to the 88 and the high velocity 75, but reliability is everything. The Tiger 2 and Panther broke down at horrendous rates. The panther's armor was spotty at best with mediocre quality of the armor plate, etc. Kelly's Heroes Tiger Tank - YouTube[^] Reliability was key. So, I appreciate the comment on the complexity of the arty pieces. I just wish some of the defense contractors in the US would learn.

                                      Charlie Gilley “They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.” BF, 1759 Has never been more appropriate.

                                      1 Reply Last reply
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