Maybe Microsoft needs to...
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win98SE was stable and was a great product. Far better than the first edition of XP as well. XPsp2 was good. Have you actually USED vista? I mean really used it, not just installed it, didn't like it and went back to XP? Or even worse, not just read about it and hopped on the Vista Suxorz!!11!One bandwagon? I've personally used Vista since launch (and even before launch with Betas) on all flavors of machines (laptops, high end desktops, below vista spec desktops, public workstations, media center machines, development machines, etc) and I've NEVER had problems that can be associated with the OS. It is far superior than XP in my personal experience. In fact, the one XP machine I still have is the least stable machine I own over the last 2 years. My personal experience with other people who actually HAVE used it is that they go in and tinker with it like you did with XP and break stuff. Or they just don't like that the OS takes up more resources (memory they wouldn't be using even when runnign the highest end applications/games). Thats like buying a new car, opening up the hood and taking out a few parts and wondering why it doesn't run as good as it should.
I absolutely agree, vista didn't have problems the hardware vendors did and we all faled in hardware vendors evil to program drivers like crap in times that the OS has changed for good
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Asking MS to develop a killer app is like asking them to give us a reliable version of visual studio...
"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
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"...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001Actually VS 2010 is a killer app and skiping VS 2008 is just as dumb as skiping Vista for XP
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win98SE was stable and was a great product. Far better than the first edition of XP as well. XPsp2 was good. Have you actually USED vista? I mean really used it, not just installed it, didn't like it and went back to XP? Or even worse, not just read about it and hopped on the Vista Suxorz!!11!One bandwagon? I've personally used Vista since launch (and even before launch with Betas) on all flavors of machines (laptops, high end desktops, below vista spec desktops, public workstations, media center machines, development machines, etc) and I've NEVER had problems that can be associated with the OS. It is far superior than XP in my personal experience. In fact, the one XP machine I still have is the least stable machine I own over the last 2 years. My personal experience with other people who actually HAVE used it is that they go in and tinker with it like you did with XP and break stuff. Or they just don't like that the OS takes up more resources (memory they wouldn't be using even when runnign the highest end applications/games). Thats like buying a new car, opening up the hood and taking out a few parts and wondering why it doesn't run as good as it should.
Before SP1, Vista had an acknowledged network problem, causing such problems as a 1Gb file transfer which took maybe 1 min under XP taking over 8 hours, or giving up altogether with weird "destination not available" type messages. I've seen that lots of times. Just because your usage doesn't impact on such problems isn't a reason for assuming those problems are not real. I have a colleague who's mantra is "no change is too small" which he applies to any software amendments or machine configuration changes - and, much to my chagrin, he is almost always right :omg: A new OS will have millions of changes, all introduced in one hit to a massively diverse user and hardware base - it's impossible to guarantee that everything will work out of the box, but given that network data transfers must be essential to almost every business, I'm amazed that this particular problem didn't show up in testing...
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Maybe what Microsoft needs to pump of sales of their new W7, is to knock out a couple killer apps that requrie it.. If people can continue on like they have always with XP, what would make someone plunk down the big bucks for an upgrade?
Rocky <>< Recent Blog Post: Backup or Move Mozilla settings and data easily! Thinking about Silverlight? www.SilverlightCity.com
I think that many people have been holding off buying a new computer during the Vista Years. It might not fly from the shelves, but it will likely sell itself by "not being Vista".
Don't attribute to stupidity what can be equally well explained by buerocracy.
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Maybe what Microsoft needs to pump of sales of their new W7, is to knock out a couple killer apps that requrie it.. If people can continue on like they have always with XP, what would make someone plunk down the big bucks for an upgrade?
Rocky <>< Recent Blog Post: Backup or Move Mozilla settings and data easily! Thinking about Silverlight? www.SilverlightCity.com
Forcing people to buy it to use some killer app is a bad idea and probably the worst marketing tactic, (and a very bad business model, because someone is bound to write a better app which works on XP over a period of time). So, I'd like to see them make the OS itself way better such that I'll be pleased to switch to it.
It is a crappy thing, but it's life -^ Carlo Pallini
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martin_hughes wrote:
T&C'sdiv>No purchase necessary. Void in Cuba; Iran; North Korea; Sudan and the Province of Quebec, Canada. Yes, we're on to you Quebec - you hive of terrorist activity!
Not terrorism, it's goobermint racketeering[^] that is to blame. Most contest sponsors just refuse to jump through hoops and throw money and the Quebec Goobermint. Anytime quebeccers get sufficiently fed up with being tossed out with scum every time they try and enter a context they just need to elect politicians to change the law. In the mean time, they've peed their bed and get to lie in it. :doh:
The European Way of War: Blow your own continent up. The American Way of War: Go over and help them.
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Which is why I run XP on all but one box. Vista only lives here because I'm a developer and have to test against it. I suspect it will be the same for Weven. Why spend hundreds of dollars on my network to buy a new operating system when the current one gets the job done? I'd rather spend the money on something that brings new value.
Christopher Duncan www.PracticalUSA.com Author of The Career Programmer and Unite the Tribes In the US? Explore our Career Coaching.
Yeah, I think that is the point, unless there is a serious need for some new enhancement, many people cannot justify the expense. They need some killer app or something to pull in the sales of the OS. For the average person I do not see why they would upgrade. But then again, I am with Chris, I do not know if there is a killer app left to make. Maybe there is something someone can think of, but I have no clue what it would be. Internet apps seem to be the main development today.
Rocky <>< Recent Blog Post: Backup or Move Mozilla settings and data easily! Thinking about Silverlight? www.SilverlightCity.com
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The killer app is to end-of-life XP. Hence, end "free" support of XP. Hence, business will adopt the new version of windows, vista for some (the more stupid or adventurous early adopters) or, like the organization I work for, leapfrog vista and go to Weven. Weven is what Vista should have been, just like WinXP/Win2000 is what Win98 should have been. Just my $0.00002.
ahmed zahmed wrote:
Weven is what Vista should have been, just like WinXP/Win2000 is what Win98 should have been.
Well, not on my system. I just bought another HD to install W7 again and see if it will work. To this day I still cannot get IIS fully installed and running and the bugs I have run into has been like no other version of Windows I have ever used, there are just too many and some very serious. In my case with my box, it is more like W7 is what everyone claimed Vista was. For me Vista 64 has been the most stable version of Windows yet.
Rocky <>< Recent Blog Post: Backup or Move Mozilla settings and data easily! Thinking about Silverlight? www.SilverlightCity.com
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Didn't you develop some Missile control systems in Visual Studio at one point of time? That is sure a Killer app.
Real-time video/image capture/transmission of F-16s...
"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
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"...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001 -
Actually VS 2010 is a killer app and skiping VS 2008 is just as dumb as skiping Vista for XP
chaosgeorge wrote:
Actually VS 2010 is a killer app
How can you say that when they've only released the first beta? It's not even bug-complete yet.
"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
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"...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001 -
martin_hughes wrote:
I'll see your pen and paper killer app and raise you fire (and the skills required to create fire) as a better and more necessary killer app.
I think you have just distilled to its essence the core problem with human nature. :-D Marc
I'm not overthinking the problem, I just felt like I needed a small, unimportant, uninteresting rant! - Martin Hart Turner
One guy wants to write a book; the other one wants to burn it. And the wheel turns...
Software Zen:
delete this; -
win98SE was stable and was a great product. Far better than the first edition of XP as well. XPsp2 was good. Have you actually USED vista? I mean really used it, not just installed it, didn't like it and went back to XP? Or even worse, not just read about it and hopped on the Vista Suxorz!!11!One bandwagon? I've personally used Vista since launch (and even before launch with Betas) on all flavors of machines (laptops, high end desktops, below vista spec desktops, public workstations, media center machines, development machines, etc) and I've NEVER had problems that can be associated with the OS. It is far superior than XP in my personal experience. In fact, the one XP machine I still have is the least stable machine I own over the last 2 years. My personal experience with other people who actually HAVE used it is that they go in and tinker with it like you did with XP and break stuff. Or they just don't like that the OS takes up more resources (memory they wouldn't be using even when runnign the highest end applications/games). Thats like buying a new car, opening up the hood and taking out a few parts and wondering why it doesn't run as good as it should.
Maybe you should contact "Ripley's Believe it or Not" and tell them about your good experiences with Vista. Right alongside the guy with a foot growing out of his ear. Naw. In all seriousness, I personally couldn't stand Vista - it treated me like an baby; I did give it 3 months on my laptop and in some ways I definitely did enjoy it. It just wasn't for me; performance was one of the reasons (XP to Vista then to XP again on the same machine, you DO notice it). It did succeed with one thing - I am positively hooked on 7; I would have been far less accommodating had it not been for Vista.
He who asks a question is a fool for five minutes. He who does not ask a question remains a fool forever. [Chineese Proverb] Jonathan C Dickinson (C# Software Engineer)
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Actually VS 2010 is a killer app and skiping VS 2008 is just as dumb as skiping Vista for XP
Ooh it's so gorgeous, so efficient, SO FRIGGEN BUG RIDDEN. Still gonna use it though - the time I save with it's new features exceeds to reboot VS time every hour or so.
He who asks a question is a fool for five minutes. He who does not ask a question remains a fool forever. [Chineese Proverb] Jonathan C Dickinson (C# Software Engineer)
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win98SE was stable and was a great product. Far better than the first edition of XP as well. XPsp2 was good. Have you actually USED vista? I mean really used it, not just installed it, didn't like it and went back to XP? Or even worse, not just read about it and hopped on the Vista Suxorz!!11!One bandwagon? I've personally used Vista since launch (and even before launch with Betas) on all flavors of machines (laptops, high end desktops, below vista spec desktops, public workstations, media center machines, development machines, etc) and I've NEVER had problems that can be associated with the OS. It is far superior than XP in my personal experience. In fact, the one XP machine I still have is the least stable machine I own over the last 2 years. My personal experience with other people who actually HAVE used it is that they go in and tinker with it like you did with XP and break stuff. Or they just don't like that the OS takes up more resources (memory they wouldn't be using even when runnign the highest end applications/games). Thats like buying a new car, opening up the hood and taking out a few parts and wondering why it doesn't run as good as it should.
kinar wrote:
My personal experience with other people who actually HAVE used it is that they go in and tinker with it like you did with XP and break stuff. Or they just don't like that the OS takes up more resources (memory they wouldn't be using even when runnign the highest end applications/games).
I wouldn't argue your comment but for me, it was the UAC, ODBC stuff in 64 bit mode was not simple task when I needed it to be, networking issues with other Vista and mostly with XP PC's and vice versa, and lastly and MOST annoying of all? They changed so much of the file explorer it's ridiculous. Why draw arrows instead of file paths? Why change behavior of application's navigation that we have all mastered over the years without adding any value doing so? I don't like Vista for other reasons too - but FRANKLY, with the UAC off and a "Legacy Style" File Explorer - I'd probably love it. --Jason
Know way too many languages... master of none!
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Maybe what Microsoft needs to pump of sales of their new W7, is to knock out a couple killer apps that requrie it.. If people can continue on like they have always with XP, what would make someone plunk down the big bucks for an upgrade?
Rocky <>< Recent Blog Post: Backup or Move Mozilla settings and data easily! Thinking about Silverlight? www.SilverlightCity.com
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One guy wants to write a book; the other one wants to burn it. And the wheel turns...
Software Zen:
delete this; -
chaosgeorge wrote:
Actually VS 2010 is a killer app
How can you say that when they've only released the first beta? It's not even bug-complete yet.
"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
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"...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001Yes but betas are very complete and taking a look to its features is practically a remake o VS and TFS so many so great is what VS2008 should have been any team skiping VSTS well are... really out of their mind
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There is one, they called it DirectX10.
The narrow specialist in the broad sense of the word is a complete idiot in the narrow sense of the word. Advertise here – minimum three posts per day are guaranteed.
exactly. Microsoft has thousands of killer Vista-W7-only apps coming out soon. They're call ALL GAMES. DX10 is Vista+ only and I'm sure they COULD have made it available for XP, but they didn't, and since all game makers choose DX over OpenGL, pretty soon all gamers will have to upgrade. This will likely be as significant as the support issue for businesses. They got me anyway.
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exactly. Microsoft has thousands of killer Vista-W7-only apps coming out soon. They're call ALL GAMES. DX10 is Vista+ only and I'm sure they COULD have made it available for XP, but they didn't, and since all game makers choose DX over OpenGL, pretty soon all gamers will have to upgrade. This will likely be as significant as the support issue for businesses. They got me anyway.
I think you're overstating the case. Unless you're one of the small minority with a top end GPU, you're not going to have the horse power to take advantage of any of the DX10 features, and legacy support will keep DX9 fallback modes available until XP's market share has withered into nothingness.
The European Way of War: Blow your own continent up. The American Way of War: Go over and help them.
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Maybe what Microsoft needs to pump of sales of their new W7, is to knock out a couple killer apps that requrie it.. If people can continue on like they have always with XP, what would make someone plunk down the big bucks for an upgrade?
Rocky <>< Recent Blog Post: Backup or Move Mozilla settings and data easily! Thinking about Silverlight? www.SilverlightCity.com
DX 11 not running on XP and Games using or requiring the new features would get the gamers to upgrade. Once the gamers upgrade to Weven it's all down hill from there. Games have been one of the bigger causes of computer advancements. I can't wait until they become just like movies...some are close, but not quite there yet. As a developer I usually develop on the edge, currently .net 3.5 (not sp1) and Vista. Then usually make sure it works on XP, I don't even bother with anything older than XP SP2. In a couple of years I won't even test on XP. A good portion of pc's that had XP, which are OEM licenses from new PC's replacing 98 and some important software requiring the NT kernel, will have been replaced due to old and dying hardware, which would then have Weven. Not necessarily needing or wanting the new OS, but because it comes on the new PC. And since Vista was around for a short time, like ME, there won't be to much of a point in testing against it. And who knows, maybe Weven will have enough additional features or improvements over XP that people go, ooooh wow, im upgrading cause I want feature "x". But thats just my thoughts.
