Verity Stob

Senkwe Chanda

In other words, he thinks C++ has no place in .NET? I would have thought the term "managed extensions to C++" would have been enough to not raise any alarms :) ASP.NET can never fail as working with it is like fitting bras to supermodels - it's one pleasure after the next - David Wulff

Fazlul Kabir

Daniel Turini wrote: At a recent UK C++ conference, Bjarne Stroustrup himself publicly nailed, as it were, the 14 new keywords to the door of Microsoft's church The only problem with compiler specific keywords (such as __gc, __property etc.) is that it makes a lot harder to port C++ code to other platforms, or even to get them compiled with another compiler on the same platform. Asides from that, MS at least tried to make .NET available to C++ coders through MC++. // Fazlul

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Todd C Wilson

Did anyone else seem to come away from that articile with absolutly no clue as to what Snob (uh, Stob) was blithering on about? Was the point that VC7 doesn't have wizards for C++ (as if real programmers care) or that MASM isn't supported for a long time (again, the Masm programmers could care less)? Or perhaps that M$ changed the spec for their own language, Visual Basic? Or maybe they are attempting to change the spec for not-their-own-langauge, C++? Or maybe there was no point at all, and it's always a good thing to name-drop Bjarn'e moniker into an article at DDJ? On a tangent (no less wild than Snob's), who else is going to let their DDJ subscription expire? Ours at the office is ending, and we're just so like 'whatever' we're not going to waste the money on it any more.

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Lost User

Ugh.. This is back to the "boo-hoo, this isn't what I wanted," type of complainers. They'd rather bitch and moan that the mainstream product doesn't have/etc features that they want then dare to switch to a product that does.... Grumble.. Need more coffee.... Drives me crazy: this is (still partly) a capitalist society: choose the right tool for your job. Otherwise, STFU. :) evilpen dot net::msn messenger:negacao@hotmail.com

Michael P Butler

I came away with the impression that standards committees need to get off their arse and do some proper development now and again. ...and that some people just aren't supposed to write editorials Michael Programming is great. First they pay you to introduce bugs into software. Then they pay you to remove them again.

Jim A Johnson

I still like DDJ, but I have no idea what the Verity Stob column is for. is it supposed to be entertaining? It's not.

Todd C Wilson

Just to make clear, it's not because of Stob's lack of skill we're not re-upping, it's lack of any use we're getting out of the magazine as a whole.

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Todd C Wilson

Any idea as to what these magic "14 new keywords" are that has Bjorne so pissed off? Stob failed to (a) list them (b) link to them (c) explain why. I'd rather read Skinny Dabaud or Swane's Flames, at least they don't expect you to have been blowing off work for the last tweleve months to attend these meetings.

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Tim Smith

It is sort of a given that if you use proprietary extensions they are not going to port. This is one of the reasons for the "__". Tim Smith "Programmers are always surrounded by complexity; we can not avoid it... If our basic tool, the language in which we design and code our programs, is also complicated, the language itself becomes part of the problem rather that part of the solution." Hoare - 1980 ACM Turing Award Lecture

Tim Smith

After the first few paragraphs, I was totally lost as to the point. Tim Smith "Programmers are always surrounded by complexity; we can not avoid it... If our basic tool, the language in which we design and code our programs, is also complicated, the language itself becomes part of the problem rather that part of the solution." Hoare - 1980 ACM Turing Award Lecture

Fazlul Kabir

I guess he was talking about the new 14 keywords MS has recently introduced with MC++: Here is the list on MSDN: http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/vcmxspec/html/vcManagedExtensionsSpec_3.asp[^] // Fazlul

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Tim Ranker

We let our DDJ subscription expire. Windows Developer Journal is probably next. All these magazines are becoming so dumbed down and desperate for articles. I finally had some time to catch up reading the last 3 issues of WDJ and I couldn't believe how useless/trivial the articles have become. There was a five page article talking about how to handle fragmented TCP messages. Maybe I'm just getting grumpier as I get older, but come on. It's not hard to figure out how to parse data coming in from a stream whether it is TCP, Serial, USB, or whatever the transport is. Kind regards, Tim

Fazlul Kabir

You and I may not care about the Standards compliant code, but many do; heck even MS has been spending a lot of their resources lately to make their C++ standard compliant. Kristopher wrote: Need more coffee.... Me, too. // Fazlul

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Todd C Wilson

Maybe *you* should write the Stob column from now one - I mean, come on, how hard would it have been to put that link in the blithering text? Let's see here.. hmmm... I remember the __interface keyword from two years ago when it was mentioned in MSDN before it went all dot-net, and even then, M$'s own people were not all that thrilled... A lot of these seem to deal with writing more COM-like interface specifications within the .cpp file - to me, looks like merging the .idl/.odl with the .cpp. __abstract = pure virtual, well golly gee... we can on from there... Now tell me, what is the difference between these and using #pragma's? Anyone besides myself work a lot with StlPort and see how much the if-this-compiler or if-that-compiler conditionals are in there? #ifndef _VC7_ #define ____abstract /*nada*/ #endif ..etc.. Ok, enough beating a hack writer over the head with my LART. Back to work.

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Tim Smith

Um... this is from the standard: 17.4.3.1.2 Global Names Certain sets of names and function signatures are always reserved to the implementation: -- Each name that contains a double underscore (__) or begins with an underscore follwed by an upper case letter (2.11) is reserved to the implmentation for any use. -- Each name that beigns with an underscore is reserved to the implementation for use as a name in the global namespace. So, tell me again, what is wrong with __gc? I guess the standard committee should come up with a new section. "Triple underscore (___) is for things that will allow but we really just don't like because we just don't like them. So there. Screw you guys, I'm going home! And I am talking my ball too!!!!" Tim Smith "Programmers are always surrounded by complexity; we can not avoid it... If our basic tool, the language in which we design and code our programs, is also complicated, the language itself becomes part of the problem rather that part of the solution." Hoare - 1980 ACM Turing Award Lecture

Tim Smith

__alignof __asm __assume __based __cdecl __declspec __except __fastcall __finally __forceinline __inline __int16 __int32 __int64 __int8 __interface __leave __multiple_inheritance __noop __ptr64 __single_inheritance __stdcall __super __try __uuidof __virtual_inheritance __abstract __box __delegate __event __finally __gc __identifier __interface __nogc __pin __property __sealed __try_cast __typeof __value Tim Smith "Programmers are always surrounded by complexity; we can not avoid it... If our basic tool, the language in which we design and code our programs, is also complicated, the language itself becomes part of the problem rather that part of the solution." Hoare - 1980 ACM Turing Award Lecture

Fazlul Kabir

Tim Smith wrote: Triple underscore (___) is for things that will allow but we really just don't like because we just don't like them LOL

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CodeGuy

I would guess that Stroustrup is upset by the same thing I am ... more non-standard extensions to the language that are being introduced in droves, while the original Standard is still not being complied with. (Yes, yes, I know ... MS is supposed to be releasing a SP ... blah blah ... the point at which I believe MS is interested in the Standard is when I see a Standard-compliant VC++.) All in all, this is a legitimate complaint to me. Brandon

Tim Smith

Now that is a valid thing to bitch about. However, that isn't Microsoft's fault. :) Tim Smith "Programmers are always surrounded by complexity; we can not avoid it... If our basic tool, the language in which we design and code our programs, is also complicated, the language itself becomes part of the problem rather that part of the solution." Hoare - 1980 ACM Turing Award Lecture