Grumble, Grumble, Grumble!!
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See this: http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/07/22/health.reform/[^] Democrats are frustrated over health care reform and grumbling? Well I just hope it won't look like France. Over taxing and under performing. We always hear the us health system is expensive and non performing. But this is not my experience. For example, I am trying to have new glasses done, and the cost is really high, and the out of pocket amount (after reimbursement) is ridiculously high. In the US, my experience was, glasses were very competitively priced and the insurance reimbursed the cost in full. Who said there was the need for more big government spending?
You can't turn lead into gold, unless you've built yourself a nuclear plant.
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See this: http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/07/22/health.reform/[^] Democrats are frustrated over health care reform and grumbling? Well I just hope it won't look like France. Over taxing and under performing. We always hear the us health system is expensive and non performing. But this is not my experience. For example, I am trying to have new glasses done, and the cost is really high, and the out of pocket amount (after reimbursement) is ridiculously high. In the US, my experience was, glasses were very competitively priced and the insurance reimbursed the cost in full. Who said there was the need for more big government spending?
You can't turn lead into gold, unless you've built yourself a nuclear plant.
You're profile says you're in France. When was the last time you were in the US? Honestly I'm kind of at a loss reading your post. It reads like a right wing talking points list, but your profile says you've been around a while.
The true man wants two things: danger and play. For that reason he wants woman, as the most dangerous plaything.
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You're profile says you're in France. When was the last time you were in the US? Honestly I'm kind of at a loss reading your post. It reads like a right wing talking points list, but your profile says you've been around a while.
The true man wants two things: danger and play. For that reason he wants woman, as the most dangerous plaything.
Skymir wrote:
It reads like a right wing talking points l
My post was not about politics, but about everyday life in one country or another. France has a big government type health care system, and my everyday experience is when in the US my payment for a health insurance was not that bad (I mean compared to what I have to pay in France) and the coverage was not that bad either (been part in various plans like HMOs and PPOs).
You can't turn lead into gold, unless you've built yourself a nuclear plant.
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See this: http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/07/22/health.reform/[^] Democrats are frustrated over health care reform and grumbling? Well I just hope it won't look like France. Over taxing and under performing. We always hear the us health system is expensive and non performing. But this is not my experience. For example, I am trying to have new glasses done, and the cost is really high, and the out of pocket amount (after reimbursement) is ridiculously high. In the US, my experience was, glasses were very competitively priced and the insurance reimbursed the cost in full. Who said there was the need for more big government spending?
You can't turn lead into gold, unless you've built yourself a nuclear plant.
*shrug* My mother and sister use glasses/contacts. Their insurance does not cover those, a set of new glasses from lenscrafters which includes exam, lenses, frames, misc stuff runs them anywhere from $600 to $1000. I'd hardly say this is competitive pricing. Something that simple shouldn't cost that much.
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*shrug* My mother and sister use glasses/contacts. Their insurance does not cover those, a set of new glasses from lenscrafters which includes exam, lenses, frames, misc stuff runs them anywhere from $600 to $1000. I'd hardly say this is competitive pricing. Something that simple shouldn't cost that much.
Remember going to Lenscrafter and the cost was much less than in France. The insurance also happened to reimburse in full.
You can't turn lead into gold, unless you've built yourself a nuclear plant.
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Skymir wrote:
It reads like a right wing talking points l
My post was not about politics, but about everyday life in one country or another. France has a big government type health care system, and my everyday experience is when in the US my payment for a health insurance was not that bad (I mean compared to what I have to pay in France) and the coverage was not that bad either (been part in various plans like HMOs and PPOs).
You can't turn lead into gold, unless you've built yourself a nuclear plant.
I don't know about the tax rate you're paying, but if you're getting off for less than 12k a year then you're getting a better deal than we are, and probably better coverage on top of that, since at that rate the co-pays are still pretty high depending on what you need. Also that's a 12k a year price tag, not as percentage of wages, if you don't make enough to pay for coverage and live on, then something has to go. That's one of the reasons I asked how long it's been since you were in the US. The last ten years have seen the average cost of health insurance more than double, while the standard of care hasn't improved (I think it went down actually). Currently putting us in 37th place according to the WHO. Surprisingly enough France and Italy are in first and second on that list.
The true man wants two things: danger and play. For that reason he wants woman, as the most dangerous plaything.
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See this: http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/07/22/health.reform/[^] Democrats are frustrated over health care reform and grumbling? Well I just hope it won't look like France. Over taxing and under performing. We always hear the us health system is expensive and non performing. But this is not my experience. For example, I am trying to have new glasses done, and the cost is really high, and the out of pocket amount (after reimbursement) is ridiculously high. In the US, my experience was, glasses were very competitively priced and the insurance reimbursed the cost in full. Who said there was the need for more big government spending?
You can't turn lead into gold, unless you've built yourself a nuclear plant.
I don't think Obama and the Dems necessarily have the answer, but 45 Million Americans don't have health insurance. Something needs to be done. But one small bit of reform is not going to stop the Global Corporate Feudalism that we are living under. Things probably won't getter for another 1000 years, if ever.
I didn't get any requirements for the signature
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*shrug* My mother and sister use glasses/contacts. Their insurance does not cover those, a set of new glasses from lenscrafters which includes exam, lenses, frames, misc stuff runs them anywhere from $600 to $1000. I'd hardly say this is competitive pricing. Something that simple shouldn't cost that much.
You mother and sister are getting ripped off. I get my glasses from my optometrist. Exam, regular prescription glasses, and prescription reading glasses totalled just under $400, and I don't have vision insurance. I've dealt with Lenscrafters before; they push you to the most expensive frames claiming the cheaper ones are out of stock, and their quality sucks. I broke a pair of glasses once and went to Lenscrafters to have some made quickly. They took three hours to make my glasses (instead of the one hour in their ad). I ended up having new ones made less than a year later when the Lenscrafter frames fell apart.
Software Zen:
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I don't think Obama and the Dems necessarily have the answer, but 45 Million Americans don't have health insurance. Something needs to be done. But one small bit of reform is not going to stop the Global Corporate Feudalism that we are living under. Things probably won't getter for another 1000 years, if ever.
I didn't get any requirements for the signature
ToddHileHoffer wrote:
but 45 Million Americans don't have health insurance. Something needs to be done.
who cares how many don't have health insurance...but i do care that around that number don't have access to proper health care - something should be done about that! treat the cause not the symptom -
Opium is my business. The bridge mean more traffic. More traffic mean more money. More money mean more power. Speed is important in business. Time is money. You said opium was money. Money is Money. Well then, what is time again? icalburner.net
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I don't think Obama and the Dems necessarily have the answer, but 45 Million Americans don't have health insurance. Something needs to be done. But one small bit of reform is not going to stop the Global Corporate Feudalism that we are living under. Things probably won't getter for another 1000 years, if ever.
I didn't get any requirements for the signature
ToddHileHoffer wrote:
45 Million Americans don't have health insurance
How come? Is it because they do not have work? Or because they have a work and no employer-provided health insurance? In the first case, the most important thing to do would be to restart the economy. In the second case, how about providing incentives for companies to provide health insurance?
You can't turn lead into gold, unless you've built yourself a nuclear plant.
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I don't think Obama and the Dems necessarily have the answer, but 45 Million Americans don't have health insurance. Something needs to be done. But one small bit of reform is not going to stop the Global Corporate Feudalism that we are living under. Things probably won't getter for another 1000 years, if ever.
I didn't get any requirements for the signature
Ah, the minority of people don't have something so the solution is to destroy what the majority of the people enjoy. Brilliant. The day the US government fixes the Indian Health Service and Medicare is the day they can START talking about "fixing" the rest of the medical system. Until then, I'd rather the entire country not end up like Massachusetts.
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ToddHileHoffer wrote:
45 Million Americans don't have health insurance
How come? Is it because they do not have work? Or because they have a work and no employer-provided health insurance? In the first case, the most important thing to do would be to restart the economy. In the second case, how about providing incentives for companies to provide health insurance?
You can't turn lead into gold, unless you've built yourself a nuclear plant.
The 45M number is from a few years ago (I presume recent stats would be higher), IIRC half the total was either people with short term (3-6mo) gaps between jobs, or short term gaps + people who chose not to buy an employer offered health plan. I think the 50% figure was just the first, but it's been a while since I saw an article with the breakdown by type.
The European Way of War: Blow your own continent up. The American Way of War: Go over and help them.
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Ah, the minority of people don't have something so the solution is to destroy what the majority of the people enjoy. Brilliant. The day the US government fixes the Indian Health Service and Medicare is the day they can START talking about "fixing" the rest of the medical system. Until then, I'd rather the entire country not end up like Massachusetts.
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*shrug* My mother and sister use glasses/contacts. Their insurance does not cover those, a set of new glasses from lenscrafters which includes exam, lenses, frames, misc stuff runs them anywhere from $600 to $1000. I'd hardly say this is competitive pricing. Something that simple shouldn't cost that much.
I too wonder where they are going. I bought the glasses I have now with only the $35 exam covered. Total cost was under $150. My wife and daughter just got new glasses at Walmart. Both cost less than $150. My next pair will be about $250 since I'll need bifocals and I'm going with superthin high quality lenses. (What's rather stunning is how little prices of glasses have changed in the twenty years. Meanwhile, contact lens prices have plummeted.)
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ToddHileHoffer wrote:
45 Million Americans don't have health insurance
How come? Is it because they do not have work? Or because they have a work and no employer-provided health insurance? In the first case, the most important thing to do would be to restart the economy. In the second case, how about providing incentives for companies to provide health insurance?
You can't turn lead into gold, unless you've built yourself a nuclear plant.
Actually, that figure is from a few a years ago.
I didn't get any requirements for the signature
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The 45M number is from a few years ago (I presume recent stats would be higher), IIRC half the total was either people with short term (3-6mo) gaps between jobs, or short term gaps + people who chose not to buy an employer offered health plan. I think the 50% figure was just the first, but it's been a while since I saw an article with the breakdown by type.
The European Way of War: Blow your own continent up. The American Way of War: Go over and help them.
dan neely wrote:
people with short term (3-6mo) gaps between jobs
they can keep their former employer insurance, this is garanteed by law.
dan neely wrote:
people who chose not to buy an employer offered health plan
So if they choose not to subscribe it is not because of a hole in the system, it is because of their own choice. So to me, it does not look like the system needs to be fixed there.
You can't turn lead into gold, unless you've built yourself a nuclear plant.
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I too wonder where they are going. I bought the glasses I have now with only the $35 exam covered. Total cost was under $150. My wife and daughter just got new glasses at Walmart. Both cost less than $150. My next pair will be about $250 since I'll need bifocals and I'm going with superthin high quality lenses. (What's rather stunning is how little prices of glasses have changed in the twenty years. Meanwhile, contact lens prices have plummeted.)
Joe Woodbury wrote:
Both cost less than $150
Actually this matches my recollection, and again this "decent" price was fully reimbursed by an "average" health insurance plan.
You can't turn lead into gold, unless you've built yourself a nuclear plant.
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Skymir wrote:
It reads like a right wing talking points l
My post was not about politics, but about everyday life in one country or another. France has a big government type health care system, and my everyday experience is when in the US my payment for a health insurance was not that bad (I mean compared to what I have to pay in France) and the coverage was not that bad either (been part in various plans like HMOs and PPOs).
You can't turn lead into gold, unless you've built yourself a nuclear plant.
Pierre Leclercq wrote:
when in the US my payment fora health insurance was not that bad
If you were working in an unskilled job for minimum wadge you might think differently about the cost of health insurance.
Pierre Leclercq wrote:
the coverage was not that bad either (been partin various plans like HMOs and PPOs).
Unless you can't afford insurance like 47 million people in the US. Census Bureau: Number of U.S. Uninsured Rises to 47 Million Americans are Uninsured[^]
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dan neely wrote:
people with short term (3-6mo) gaps between jobs
they can keep their former employer insurance, this is garanteed by law.
dan neely wrote:
people who chose not to buy an employer offered health plan
So if they choose not to subscribe it is not because of a hole in the system, it is because of their own choice. So to me, it does not look like the system needs to be fixed there.
You can't turn lead into gold, unless you've built yourself a nuclear plant.
Pierre Leclercq wrote:
dan neely wrote: people with short term (3-6mo) gaps between jobs they can keep their former employer insurance, this is garanteed by law.
But they have to pay 100% of the total. For a family plan that's typically $1000-2000month. Very few people can afford to pay that much/month without a pay check.
Pierre Leclercq wrote:
So to me, it does not look like the system needs to be fixed there.
You've still got the other 20+M who have a (typically low paying) job that doesn't offer an insurance plan and who can't afford to buy one because it would cost more than their salary to do so. The problem exists, it's just that statistical lying is used to inflate its size.
The European Way of War: Blow your own continent up. The American Way of War: Go over and help them.
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Pierre Leclercq wrote:
dan neely wrote: people with short term (3-6mo) gaps between jobs they can keep their former employer insurance, this is garanteed by law.
But they have to pay 100% of the total. For a family plan that's typically $1000-2000month. Very few people can afford to pay that much/month without a pay check.
Pierre Leclercq wrote:
So to me, it does not look like the system needs to be fixed there.
You've still got the other 20+M who have a (typically low paying) job that doesn't offer an insurance plan and who can't afford to buy one because it would cost more than their salary to do so. The problem exists, it's just that statistical lying is used to inflate its size.
The European Way of War: Blow your own continent up. The American Way of War: Go over and help them.
dan neely wrote:
But they have to pay 100% of the total. For a family plan that's typically $1000-2000month. Very few people can afford to pay that much/month without a pay check.
The numbers seem high. When using Cobra, it should not cost such a high amount.
dan neely wrote:
job that doesn't offer an insurance plan
So in this case, the problem is not to "fix" the system but to provide incentives to companies so more of them will offer insurance, especially since companies can already get tax deductions from their group plans.
You can't turn lead into gold, unless you've built yourself a nuclear plant.