This is not acceptable [modified]
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Anyone, black or white, who mouths off to a police officer is begging to get slapped on a nuisance charge. Demanding proof of residence (eg ID) in response to a reported breakin is SOP (otherwise how can the cops determine if the person is an intruder). Had idiot done so when asked the police would've left and he wouldn't've gotten his 15 minutes of fame. Makes you wonder doesn't it...
The European Way of War: Blow your own continent up. The American Way of War: Go over and help them.
I also thought the same... This is just a result of unnecessary arguments... By the way nobody has posted that this is Soapbox related stuff... thats odd...
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Anyone, black or white, who mouths off to a police officer is begging to get slapped on a nuisance charge. Demanding proof of residence (eg ID) in response to a reported breakin is SOP (otherwise how can the cops determine if the person is an intruder). Had idiot done so when asked the police would've left and he wouldn't've gotten his 15 minutes of fame. Makes you wonder doesn't it...
The European Way of War: Blow your own continent up. The American Way of War: Go over and help them.
dan neely wrote:
Demanding proof of residence (eg ID) in response to a reported breakin is SOP (otherwise how can the cops determine if the person is an intruder).
I am sorry, this is BS. Last time I checked, we don't live in a police state where we have to stop everything we do at the whim of law enforcement. The officer should have introduced himself, said that a neighbor had called to report a break-in and ask if everything is okay. If the officer had done that instead of insisting that the professor step outside (essentially, a white man dictating orders to a black man), the outcome would probably be different: the professor wouldn't have been arrested and the campus police wouldn't have looked like a bunch of racists and may actually begin to patch up their reputation (yeah, they have a reputation for harrassing minorities). I have seen a police officer yell at a 17-year-old for not having id to prove he was entitled to have a minor's trolley pass and call him a liar instead of simply require that he have the proper id or the proper pass. I have had a friend stopped on the freeway because he was hispanic and driving the company truck (it was company business and it was during the day). His supervisor, who was following, stopped and tried to explain to the officer what was going on and the officer yelled at him to get back to his car. I have other friends who have similar experiences. Police used to be call "Peace Officers" because they were there to keep the peace, not create a disturbance.
m.bergman
-- For Bruce Schneier, quanta only have one state : afraid.
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what isn't?
cnn wrote:
The officer asked Gates to "step out onto the porch and speak with me," the report says. "[Gates] replied, 'No, I will not.' He then demanded to know who I was. I told him that I was 'Sgt. Crowley from the Cambridge Police' and that I was 'investigating a report of a break in progress' at the residence. "While I was making this statement, Gates opened the front door and exclaimed, 'Why, because I'm a black man in America?' " According to the report, Gates initially refused to show the officer his identification, instead asking for the officer's ID. But Gates eventually did show the officer his identification that included his home address.
that a man REFUSED to show police ID because he was in his own home even though the police officer could not have possibly known that? seriously...that is the most disgusting article I've read in a long time but it has nothing to do with what happend. That reporter needs fired for that story. That man SHOULD have been arrested and he shouldn't be teaching anyone from what I got out of that article. From the article: "When I'm opening the door of my own house, someone will ask me where the man of the house is, implying that I'm staff," No...no it doesn't. It is called being politically correct. People are TRAINED to ask that to whomever opens the door because you are TRAINED to not make assumtions about people when you are in a position to be knocking on the door of people you don't know. This man seems to have been looking for a fight to pick and it certainly sounds like HE is the racist in this story. It reports that the call came from a neighbor. WTF? His own fucking neighbor didn't know who he was and called the police on him? Maybe thats cause he hasn't ever talked to her because he hates white people? People like this make me sick.
The man should have been detained until positive Id was established. The second the officers learned the man was indeed the property owner they were trespassing. This is more a story of how two wrongs don't make a right.
Need custom software developed? I do C# development and consulting all over the United States. A man said to the universe: "Sir I exist!" "However," replied the universe, "The fact has not created in me A sense of obligation." --Stephen Crane
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dan neely wrote:
Demanding proof of residence (eg ID) in response to a reported breakin is SOP (otherwise how can the cops determine if the person is an intruder).
I am sorry, this is BS. Last time I checked, we don't live in a police state where we have to stop everything we do at the whim of law enforcement. The officer should have introduced himself, said that a neighbor had called to report a break-in and ask if everything is okay. If the officer had done that instead of insisting that the professor step outside (essentially, a white man dictating orders to a black man), the outcome would probably be different: the professor wouldn't have been arrested and the campus police wouldn't have looked like a bunch of racists and may actually begin to patch up their reputation (yeah, they have a reputation for harrassing minorities). I have seen a police officer yell at a 17-year-old for not having id to prove he was entitled to have a minor's trolley pass and call him a liar instead of simply require that he have the proper id or the proper pass. I have had a friend stopped on the freeway because he was hispanic and driving the company truck (it was company business and it was during the day). His supervisor, who was following, stopped and tried to explain to the officer what was going on and the officer yelled at him to get back to his car. I have other friends who have similar experiences. Police used to be call "Peace Officers" because they were there to keep the peace, not create a disturbance.
m.bergman
-- For Bruce Schneier, quanta only have one state : afraid.
Michael Bergman wrote:
(essentially, a white man dictating orders to a black man)
Well, of course it WAS a white man dictating orders to a black man. FAR more importantly, it was a Police officer dictating orders to a member of the public who, he suspected, could be a criminal. So take this scenario. Cop arrives, man opens door, cop says step outside, man slams door, grabs gun from inside and shoots officer in head. or Cop arrives and (as you suggest)say 'is everything OK'. The man says 'yes, thanks officer, have a good day'. Then the cop leaves and the owner returns to a ransacked house. Note that the COLOURS of those involved DON'T MATTER. The Cop is being justifiably cautious in view that a reported burglary is in place. Whether black, white, or pink with purple spots, the person at the house is still a suspect. Sounds to me like the guy answering the door was assuming that he was a suspect because of his colour. That may have been the case (if the neighbour called because they assumed a black person didn't own the property) but the cop was responding to a call of burglar on premises - so the person in the house is automatically a suspect that needs to be identified. Then, when he refuses to show ID, and to leave the house, suspicion is raised. Sure, the cop sounds like he was being stupid not to supply his name and badge .
Michael Bergman wrote:
I have had a friend stopped on the freeway because he was hispanic and driving the company truck
How do you know it was because he was hispanic? Maybe it was, and maybe 98% of trucks are stolen by hispanics while only 3% of truck drivers are hispanics?
___________________________________________ .\\axxx (That's an 'M')
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Anyone, black or white, who mouths off to a police officer is begging to get slapped on a nuisance charge. Demanding proof of residence (eg ID) in response to a reported breakin is SOP (otherwise how can the cops determine if the person is an intruder). Had idiot done so when asked the police would've left and he wouldn't've gotten his 15 minutes of fame. Makes you wonder doesn't it...
The European Way of War: Blow your own continent up. The American Way of War: Go over and help them.
its pretty easy to "mouth off" to an american cop... TRUE LIFE STORY: we hoping off the subway in the big apple friend approachs a policeman ask which way to the rockerfella centre, pretty std tourist question i thought, response " i cant help you", response "good goind mate" and pat him on the back saying good work as i walk off. next thing i know his loaded automatic weapon is in my face. AWESOME. this is the reason i will never go back to the states. every other country i went to i asked similar stupid questions about where am i to armed gaurds ALL answered with sign language or helpful broken english.
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The real problem lies in our separatist outlook on life. For instance, I barely know my neighbors. I would recognize them if I saw them, but that's about it. As a neighbor, I would personally go check out any "suspicious activity" before calling the cops. A simple studied glance over the fence would have identified Gates as the guy that owned the place. If you don't engage the people around you, crap like this is bound to happen.
"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
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"...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote:
I would personally go check out any "suspicious activity" before calling the cops.
Me too.
John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote:
A simple studied glance over the fence would have identified Gates as the guy that owned the place.
Seems so simple it makes you wonder what the caller was thinking. A man going into his own house certainly shouldn't be setting off alarms. Having said that it was foolish of the man to not cooperate with the police and produce identification when asked. regardless of his prejudiced point of view -- the man not the police officer. The police officer was just doing his job of responding to a report of a break in. It is not unusual for white police officers to ask white people for identification. I know because I have been asked and complied even though I knew it was because of my full faced beard (down to my mid chest) and long hair. I was even asked obviously inappropriate questions on "routine" (routine if you look like a biker) traffic stops like "where are you coming from" and "where are you going". I could have answered that I am coming from going about my lawful business but then there was a good chance I would have exited the car through the window opening with the police officer yanking me out by my neck. A simple "I'm coming from visiting my Mom" was all it took to defuse the situation. I know the traffic stops were as a result of prejudice because now that I have a #1 buzz cut and no beard police officers don't stop me often. If I am stopped because of a traffic violation they ask "can I see your license, registration and proof of insurance sir". They also don't wait for backup to arrive before approaching the car as they used to do as a matter of course. I am tempted to ask why they are not interested in where I am coming from or where I am going to, but that would only cause problems and I would much rather be going about my lawful business than confronting the police. Damn I'm getting old!
Simply Elegant Designs JimmyRopes Designs
Think inside the box! ProActive Secure Systems
I'm on-line therefore I am.< -
Michael Bergman wrote:
(essentially, a white man dictating orders to a black man)
Well, of course it WAS a white man dictating orders to a black man. FAR more importantly, it was a Police officer dictating orders to a member of the public who, he suspected, could be a criminal. So take this scenario. Cop arrives, man opens door, cop says step outside, man slams door, grabs gun from inside and shoots officer in head. or Cop arrives and (as you suggest)say 'is everything OK'. The man says 'yes, thanks officer, have a good day'. Then the cop leaves and the owner returns to a ransacked house. Note that the COLOURS of those involved DON'T MATTER. The Cop is being justifiably cautious in view that a reported burglary is in place. Whether black, white, or pink with purple spots, the person at the house is still a suspect. Sounds to me like the guy answering the door was assuming that he was a suspect because of his colour. That may have been the case (if the neighbour called because they assumed a black person didn't own the property) but the cop was responding to a call of burglar on premises - so the person in the house is automatically a suspect that needs to be identified. Then, when he refuses to show ID, and to leave the house, suspicion is raised. Sure, the cop sounds like he was being stupid not to supply his name and badge .
Michael Bergman wrote:
I have had a friend stopped on the freeway because he was hispanic and driving the company truck
How do you know it was because he was hispanic? Maybe it was, and maybe 98% of trucks are stolen by hispanics while only 3% of truck drivers are hispanics?
___________________________________________ .\\axxx (That's an 'M')
_Maxxx_ wrote:
How do you know it was because he was hispanic? Maybe it was, and maybe 98% of trucks are stolen by hispanics while only 3% of truck drivers are hispanics?
Then he would have been stopped because he was hispanic driving a truck! :rolleyes:
Simply Elegant Designs JimmyRopes Designs
Think inside the box! ProActive Secure Systems
I'm on-line therefore I am. JimmyRopes -
its pretty easy to "mouth off" to an american cop... TRUE LIFE STORY: we hoping off the subway in the big apple friend approachs a policeman ask which way to the rockerfella centre, pretty std tourist question i thought, response " i cant help you", response "good goind mate" and pat him on the back saying good work as i walk off. next thing i know his loaded automatic weapon is in my face. AWESOME. this is the reason i will never go back to the states. every other country i went to i asked similar stupid questions about where am i to armed gaurds ALL answered with sign language or helpful broken english.
You don't question your gods. They will crush us roaches when the order comes.
"The task of saving the earth's environment must and will become the central organizing principle of the post-Cold War world." Senator Al Gore Putting People First 1992 ------ "The sacrifice of personal existence is necessary to secure the preservation of the species." Adolph Hitler Mein Kampf 1923 ------ If you want a picture of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face - forever." O'Brien to Winston George Orwell 1984 1949
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You don't question your gods. They will crush us roaches when the order comes.
"The task of saving the earth's environment must and will become the central organizing principle of the post-Cold War world." Senator Al Gore Putting People First 1992 ------ "The sacrifice of personal existence is necessary to secure the preservation of the species." Adolph Hitler Mein Kampf 1923 ------ If you want a picture of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face - forever." O'Brien to Winston George Orwell 1984 1949
funny thing is my brother is a police sergant back home i go on duty with him sometimes for aughs and play golf with coppers a fair bit. i am not anti police in anyway shape or form, but it seems that USA employs thugs and gives them a steel c0ck(gun) they can put in there hand all day.
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What's the problem? How were the police expected to know that he was the owner? The guy's neighbours called it in because they didn't recognise him and thought his house was being ransacked, so they did him a favour. It's an unfortunate mismatch of events, maybe, but I don't see any racist overtones.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
Mark Wallace wrote:
How were the police expected to know that he was the owner?
if you read the story he showed them 2 photo IDs one was a harvard ID but since they werent detetives i guess they couldnt sus out what the little swirlly lines where, when they got that nigga(applying the conatations of the officers, no offence) back to HQ where someone could read he was released.
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John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote:
I would personally go check out any "suspicious activity" before calling the cops.
Me too.
John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote:
A simple studied glance over the fence would have identified Gates as the guy that owned the place.
Seems so simple it makes you wonder what the caller was thinking. A man going into his own house certainly shouldn't be setting off alarms. Having said that it was foolish of the man to not cooperate with the police and produce identification when asked. regardless of his prejudiced point of view -- the man not the police officer. The police officer was just doing his job of responding to a report of a break in. It is not unusual for white police officers to ask white people for identification. I know because I have been asked and complied even though I knew it was because of my full faced beard (down to my mid chest) and long hair. I was even asked obviously inappropriate questions on "routine" (routine if you look like a biker) traffic stops like "where are you coming from" and "where are you going". I could have answered that I am coming from going about my lawful business but then there was a good chance I would have exited the car through the window opening with the police officer yanking me out by my neck. A simple "I'm coming from visiting my Mom" was all it took to defuse the situation. I know the traffic stops were as a result of prejudice because now that I have a #1 buzz cut and no beard police officers don't stop me often. If I am stopped because of a traffic violation they ask "can I see your license, registration and proof of insurance sir". They also don't wait for backup to arrive before approaching the car as they used to do as a matter of course. I am tempted to ask why they are not interested in where I am coming from or where I am going to, but that would only cause problems and I would much rather be going about my lawful business than confronting the police. Damn I'm getting old!
Simply Elegant Designs JimmyRopes Designs
Think inside the box! ProActive Secure Systems
I'm on-line therefore I am.<JimmyRopes wrote:
I am tempted to ask why they are not interested in where I am coming from or where I am going to, but that would only cause problems and I would much rather be going about my lawful business than confronting the police. Damn I'm getting old!
No, you're getting sensible! As you correctly identify - fail the attitude test, exit vehicle via window - pass the attitude test, go on your merry way!
I don't have ADHD, I have ADOS... Attention Deficit oooh SHINY!! Booger Mobile (n) - A bright green 1964 Ford Falcon - our entry into the Camp Quality esCarpade!! Do something wonderful - make a donation to Camp Quality today!!
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its pretty easy to "mouth off" to an american cop... TRUE LIFE STORY: we hoping off the subway in the big apple friend approachs a policeman ask which way to the rockerfella centre, pretty std tourist question i thought, response " i cant help you", response "good goind mate" and pat him on the back saying good work as i walk off. next thing i know his loaded automatic weapon is in my face. AWESOME. this is the reason i will never go back to the states. every other country i went to i asked similar stupid questions about where am i to armed gaurds ALL answered with sign language or helpful broken english.
killabyte wrote:
response " i cant help you", response "good goind mate" and pat him on the back saying good work as i walk off.
No, you were being a smart ass and assaulted a police officer... You would have been arrested here in Queensland... ;-) The gun to the face was just an added bonus in the US as that's their standard procedure...
I don't have ADHD, I have ADOS... Attention Deficit oooh SHINY!! Booger Mobile (n) - A bright green 1964 Ford Falcon - our entry into the Camp Quality esCarpade!! Do something wonderful - make a donation to Camp Quality today!!
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Mark Wallace wrote:
How were the police expected to know that he was the owner?
if you read the story he showed them 2 photo IDs one was a harvard ID but since they werent detetives i guess they couldnt sus out what the little swirlly lines where, when they got that nigga(applying the conatations of the officers, no offence) back to HQ where someone could read he was released.
I'm sensing a little more why you had the semi-auto shoved in your face... have an issue with Police in general do we?
I don't have ADHD, I have ADOS... Attention Deficit oooh SHINY!! Booger Mobile (n) - A bright green 1964 Ford Falcon - our entry into the Camp Quality esCarpade!! Do something wonderful - make a donation to Camp Quality today!!
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I'm sensing a little more why you had the semi-auto shoved in your face... have an issue with Police in general do we?
I don't have ADHD, I have ADOS... Attention Deficit oooh SHINY!! Booger Mobile (n) - A bright green 1964 Ford Falcon - our entry into the Camp Quality esCarpade!! Do something wonderful - make a donation to Camp Quality today!!
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Mark Wallace wrote:
How were the police expected to know that he was the owner?
if you read the story he showed them 2 photo IDs one was a harvard ID but since they werent detetives i guess they couldnt sus out what the little swirlly lines where, when they got that nigga(applying the conatations of the officers, no offence) back to HQ where someone could read he was released.
Fact: We weren't there, so we didn't see the behaviour of the principles. Fact: The police did not immediately arrest him, despite the fact that the neighbours had indirectly identified him as a criminal. Fact: The police asked him to show them his ID, and he refused -- so the police were acting perfectly professionally. Conjecture: It appears that the police were acting calmly and professionally, and the "wonderful man" was acting like a petulant child. Conjecture: It sounds like the jumped-up, self-important teacher thought that interacting with such lowlies as police officers was beneath him, and was rude and offensive. I'd as likely as not have smacked him one. The police behaved far more professionally than I would have bothered to. He should remember that them as can, do; them as can't, teach.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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Fact: We weren't there, so we didn't see the behaviour of the principles. Fact: The police did not immediately arrest him, despite the fact that the neighbours had indirectly identified him as a criminal. Fact: The police asked him to show them his ID, and he refused -- so the police were acting perfectly professionally. Conjecture: It appears that the police were acting calmly and professionally, and the "wonderful man" was acting like a petulant child. Conjecture: It sounds like the jumped-up, self-important teacher thought that interacting with such lowlies as police officers was beneath him, and was rude and offensive. I'd as likely as not have smacked him one. The police behaved far more professionally than I would have bothered to. He should remember that them as can, do; them as can't, teach.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
Mark Wallace wrote:
the "wonderful man" was acting like a petulant child.
Sir, You are a racist! You are a thought criminal! You need to be institutionalized and reeducated.
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Mark Wallace wrote:
the "wonderful man" was acting like a petulant child.
Sir, You are a racist! You are a thought criminal! You need to be institutionalized and reeducated.
Ooh, a troll. How entertaining.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
