Vista becomes hysterical!
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Deyan Georgiev wrote:
“The Google Chrome application is not responding and need to be shut down…do you want to restart the program?…”
This message appears when the application is not answering some important windows message, e.g., WM_PAINT. This often means that the main interface thread is not running the message loop, doing some lengthy process or just hung up (as in a deadlock).
Daniel Turini wrote:
This message appears when the application is not answering some important windows message, e.g., WM_PAINT.
Technically, task manager sends out a message (and it's NOT wm_paint) every 5 seconds to every running process. Each process is given 5 seconds to respond to that message. If it doesn't respond in the allotted time frame, task Manager marks the task as "Not Responding". Vista itself probably uses some other timing metrics that dictate when to assume a given process has "crashed" (probably some time after task manager marks the process as "not responding").
"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
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"...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001 -
I know this, that’s way I mentioned that all of the tabs was okay.
The narrow specialist in the broad sense of the word is a complete idiot in the narrow sense of the word. Advertise here – minimum three posts per day are guaranteed.
Browser plugins run in separate processes, too. My bet is that Flash or some other plugin crashed. You didn't notice it because it was used for an ad or something small on a page.
Religiously blogging on the intarwebs since the early 21st century: Kineti L'Tziyon Judah Himango
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Yesterday evening I was browsing internet using Chrome. I was opened several tabs enjoying some nice turboprop airplanes pictures when suddenly the Vista’s crash window shows up. You know – this one which reads something like: “The Google Chrome application is not responding and need to be shut down…do you want to restart the program?…” or something similar. So I closed the error prompt and…continue with browsing the current page without any problems! The Chrome doesn’t crashed, there was no crashed tabs…everything was just okay! So I’m puzzled WTF was that? Either Vista for some reasons needs to fake Chrome crashes or there is the following source code somewhere inside the last updates:
private void CHandleWithCompetitors::Hook CurrentBrowser(LPDISPATCH *browserRef)
{
If(GetCurrentBrowser(browserRef) == GOOGLE_FUCKING_CHROME)
{
If(!BrowserTryCrash(browserRef))
{
throw CInternalEx(“BrowserUncrashableExseption”);
}
}
}The narrow specialist in the broad sense of the word is a complete idiot in the narrow sense of the word. Advertise here – minimum three posts per day are guaranteed.
My psychic debugging skills tell me a plugin on one of the webpages crashed -- remember, Chrome runs plugins like Flash and Silverlight and Java in their own process. I bet a plugin process crashed (I've seen this many times with both Flash and Silverlight in Chrome), and since the plugin process is named "chrome.exe", Vista reported Chrome as having crashed, even though the main Chrome process was running and even though all the pages were still up.
Deyan Georgiev wrote:
If(GetCurrentBrowser(browserRef) == GOOGLE_FUCKING_CHROME)
Kind of hard to do, considering Chrome wasn't around when Vista was released.
Religiously blogging on the intarwebs since the early 21st century: Kineti L'Tziyon Judah Himango
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Brian W King wrote:
it MUST be a conspiracy!
And you didn't know this?? My god man, where have you been? Everyone knows that Bill Gates is the devil[^].
"...great scott!" Dilbert: Aren't all meetings like this... Richard Dawkins: "What if you're wrong?"
lol! I like that site. Must be Bill is not the anti-christ anyways as Win95 is dead and the world didn't end. Oh, well. I also love how religious oriented people (aka wackos :wtf: ) will make any apocolyptic biblical passage fit anything they hate. Got to give them credit for imagination anyways. They get a zero for predictions in my book though as the world is going to end at least once a year. :doh:
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Daniel Turini wrote:
This message appears when the application is not answering some important windows message, e.g., WM_PAINT.
Technically, task manager sends out a message (and it's NOT wm_paint) every 5 seconds to every running process. Each process is given 5 seconds to respond to that message. If it doesn't respond in the allotted time frame, task Manager marks the task as "Not Responding". Vista itself probably uses some other timing metrics that dictate when to assume a given process has "crashed" (probably some time after task manager marks the process as "not responding").
"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
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"...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote:
Technically, task manager sends out a message (and it's NOT wm_paint) every 5 seconds to every running process.
Well, there's no such thing. Task manager does not send any message to all applications every 5 seconds or so. Technically, it is impossible to send a "message" to every process because messages can only be sent to those processes who own a Window (a window handle of process XYZ is required to send a message to XYZ process -- the process must have a message pump which will process the message you send). There are several process that do not have a window. An application will be sent messages (several - may be a few hundreds, even for a trivial thing) in order to show the mouse cursor hovered over it, the window itself being moved, another window dragged above it, the portions of window that needs to be repainted, the non-client area needing repainting, etc. When a window does not respond to such messages repeatedly (hundreds or thousands of time), the process (actually the UI thread) responsible for processing those messages sent to the window is decided to be "hung". Then, depending on the options set by the user, windows either decides to kill the process or wait for it to possibly resume, or restart. Again, this mechanism applies to those processes with a message pump. There are other ways to decide if a process without a window is hung (dead lock detection, to name one).
It is a crappy thing, but it's life -^ Carlo Pallini
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Yesterday evening I was browsing internet using Chrome. I was opened several tabs enjoying some nice turboprop airplanes pictures when suddenly the Vista’s crash window shows up. You know – this one which reads something like: “The Google Chrome application is not responding and need to be shut down…do you want to restart the program?…” or something similar. So I closed the error prompt and…continue with browsing the current page without any problems! The Chrome doesn’t crashed, there was no crashed tabs…everything was just okay! So I’m puzzled WTF was that? Either Vista for some reasons needs to fake Chrome crashes or there is the following source code somewhere inside the last updates:
private void CHandleWithCompetitors::Hook CurrentBrowser(LPDISPATCH *browserRef)
{
If(GetCurrentBrowser(browserRef) == GOOGLE_FUCKING_CHROME)
{
If(!BrowserTryCrash(browserRef))
{
throw CInternalEx(“BrowserUncrashableExseption”);
}
}
}The narrow specialist in the broad sense of the word is a complete idiot in the narrow sense of the word. Advertise here – minimum three posts per day are guaranteed.
What I don't understand is - Why is Vista hysterical if some random application crashes? Hey, my car does not start. It must be because of Vista. :rolleyes:
It is a crappy thing, but it's life -^ Carlo Pallini
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Browser plugins run in separate processes, too. My bet is that Flash or some other plugin crashed. You didn't notice it because it was used for an ad or something small on a page.
Religiously blogging on the intarwebs since the early 21st century: Kineti L'Tziyon Judah Himango
Yes – this sounds very reasonable! In the moment of the crash I had opened a page heavily loaded with flash.
The narrow specialist in the broad sense of the word is a complete idiot in the narrow sense of the word. Advertise here – minimum three posts per day are guaranteed.
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Deyan Georgiev wrote:
GOOGLE_*******_CHROME
Fixed that for you. I don;t care about my kid sister (she's fictional), but I do care about My Mum. Think of the mothers!
I have now moved to Sweden for love (awwww). If you're in Scandinavia and want an MVP on the payroll (or happy with a remote worker), or need cotract work done, give me a job! http://cv.imcsoft.co.uk/[^]
I’m pretty sure that your mom doesn’t horrifying from this word. The fact of your existence is a perfect evidence for this.
The narrow specialist in the broad sense of the word is a complete idiot in the narrow sense of the word. Advertise here – minimum three posts per day are guaranteed.
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What I don't understand is - Why is Vista hysterical if some random application crashes? Hey, my car does not start. It must be because of Vista. :rolleyes:
It is a crappy thing, but it's life -^ Carlo Pallini
Because there was no crash? Anyway, read the Judah explanation above, it makes a perfect sense.
The narrow specialist in the broad sense of the word is a complete idiot in the narrow sense of the word. Advertise here – minimum three posts per day are guaranteed.
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John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote:
Technically, task manager sends out a message (and it's NOT wm_paint) every 5 seconds to every running process.
Well, there's no such thing. Task manager does not send any message to all applications every 5 seconds or so. Technically, it is impossible to send a "message" to every process because messages can only be sent to those processes who own a Window (a window handle of process XYZ is required to send a message to XYZ process -- the process must have a message pump which will process the message you send). There are several process that do not have a window. An application will be sent messages (several - may be a few hundreds, even for a trivial thing) in order to show the mouse cursor hovered over it, the window itself being moved, another window dragged above it, the portions of window that needs to be repainted, the non-client area needing repainting, etc. When a window does not respond to such messages repeatedly (hundreds or thousands of time), the process (actually the UI thread) responsible for processing those messages sent to the window is decided to be "hung". Then, depending on the options set by the user, windows either decides to kill the process or wait for it to possibly resume, or restart. Again, this mechanism applies to those processes with a message pump. There are other ways to decide if a process without a window is hung (dead lock detection, to name one).
It is a crappy thing, but it's life -^ Carlo Pallini
Well... you're less wrong. The documentation is pretty specific on what Windows considers an unresponsive program though:
An application is considered to be not responding if it is not waiting for input, is not in startup processing, and has not called PeekMessage within the internal timeout period of 5 seconds.
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Because there was no crash? Anyway, read the Judah explanation above, it makes a perfect sense.
The narrow specialist in the broad sense of the word is a complete idiot in the narrow sense of the word. Advertise here – minimum three posts per day are guaranteed.
I read that already and that's still not Vista's fault. Chrome uses some kind of an unusual design (with several processes and multiple threads in each process - I don't like it). When the parent process (or the *main* UI thread) is unresponsive, Windows ought to report it as a dead application.
It is a crappy thing, but it's life -^ Carlo Pallini
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My psychic debugging skills tell me a plugin on one of the webpages crashed -- remember, Chrome runs plugins like Flash and Silverlight and Java in their own process. I bet a plugin process crashed (I've seen this many times with both Flash and Silverlight in Chrome), and since the plugin process is named "chrome.exe", Vista reported Chrome as having crashed, even though the main Chrome process was running and even though all the pages were still up.
Deyan Georgiev wrote:
If(GetCurrentBrowser(browserRef) == GOOGLE_FUCKING_CHROME)
Kind of hard to do, considering Chrome wasn't around when Vista was released.
Religiously blogging on the intarwebs since the early 21st century: Kineti L'Tziyon Judah Himango
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Well... you're less wrong. The documentation is pretty specific on what Windows considers an unresponsive program though:
An application is considered to be not responding if it is not waiting for input, is not in startup processing, and has not called PeekMessage within the internal timeout period of 5 seconds.
My response was specific to his statement - "Task manager sends a message to every running process, every 5 seconds" (I had quoted it as well). And I said there's no such thing. The API you linked to comes into picture, only if you are talking about a "Window" (NOT a process - or rather processes that have window(s)). Note that the API is taking in a handle to a window, and not a handle to a process. And when does the window stops responding: hasn't retrieved several messages from the message loop, hasn't peeked to check for messages, etc.,. - Which is essentially what I said in my previous post. What about those processes that have no window?! This API is irrelevant in such cases and therefore cannot be applied for all running processes. Also, this has nothing to do with Task manager sending any message to any process. Added: BTW, I hadn't known that the default timeout for applications to peek for arrival of new messages in the loop were 5 seconds. Thanks, I know it now. :)
It is a crappy thing, but it's life -^ Carlo Pallini
modified on Wednesday, July 29, 2009 12:08 PM
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Browser plugins run in separate processes, too. My bet is that Flash or some other plugin crashed. You didn't notice it because it was used for an ad or something small on a page.
Religiously blogging on the intarwebs since the early 21st century: Kineti L'Tziyon Judah Himango
So, when viewing a typical modern page in Chrome, you can expect up to 20 "Hey, Bub, it's crashed" messages, for all the inlaid advertising cr@p?
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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My response was specific to his statement - "Task manager sends a message to every running process, every 5 seconds" (I had quoted it as well). And I said there's no such thing. The API you linked to comes into picture, only if you are talking about a "Window" (NOT a process - or rather processes that have window(s)). Note that the API is taking in a handle to a window, and not a handle to a process. And when does the window stops responding: hasn't retrieved several messages from the message loop, hasn't peeked to check for messages, etc.,. - Which is essentially what I said in my previous post. What about those processes that have no window?! This API is irrelevant in such cases and therefore cannot be applied for all running processes. Also, this has nothing to do with Task manager sending any message to any process. Added: BTW, I hadn't known that the default timeout for applications to peek for arrival of new messages in the loop were 5 seconds. Thanks, I know it now. :)
It is a crappy thing, but it's life -^ Carlo Pallini
modified on Wednesday, July 29, 2009 12:08 PM
Rajesh R Subramanian wrote:
What about those processes that have no window?! This API is irrelevant in such cases and therefore cannot be applied for all running processes.
To the best of my knowledge, Task Manager has no concept of an unresponsive application for windowless apps. Things like services also have scenarios where they're expected to respond within a timeframe or be killed, but these are largely separate from Task Manager, and completely unrelated to the "unresponsive" indicator displayed in that applet.
Rajesh R Subramanian wrote:
Also, this has nothing to do with Task manager sending any message to any process.
Mostly, yes. The "unresponsive" flag is set by the window manager, based on the criteria i quoted above. Task Manager reads it. Task manager can trigger messages for an application window in response to certain user requests, but it does not do so arbitrarily. John had the timeframe right (5 sec) - the criteria is based on time, not number of messages posted. You correctly surmised that Windows doesn't send messages for the specific purpose of detecting this. And you were closer to the method by which Windows handles this... though strictly speaking Windows doesn't really do much beyond setting that flag and painting the window (pre-XP) or displaying a placeholder window (XP and later) - if the user tries to close the placeholder, then they get the choice of terminating the process it belongs to or continuing to wait.
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Rajesh R Subramanian wrote:
What about those processes that have no window?! This API is irrelevant in such cases and therefore cannot be applied for all running processes.
To the best of my knowledge, Task Manager has no concept of an unresponsive application for windowless apps. Things like services also have scenarios where they're expected to respond within a timeframe or be killed, but these are largely separate from Task Manager, and completely unrelated to the "unresponsive" indicator displayed in that applet.
Rajesh R Subramanian wrote:
Also, this has nothing to do with Task manager sending any message to any process.
Mostly, yes. The "unresponsive" flag is set by the window manager, based on the criteria i quoted above. Task Manager reads it. Task manager can trigger messages for an application window in response to certain user requests, but it does not do so arbitrarily. John had the timeframe right (5 sec) - the criteria is based on time, not number of messages posted. You correctly surmised that Windows doesn't send messages for the specific purpose of detecting this. And you were closer to the method by which Windows handles this... though strictly speaking Windows doesn't really do much beyond setting that flag and painting the window (pre-XP) or displaying a placeholder window (XP and later) - if the user tries to close the placeholder, then they get the choice of terminating the process it belongs to or continuing to wait.
Shog9 wrote:
Task Manager has no concept of an unresponsive application for windowless apps.
Exactly! Therefore my reply to John. So, I woke up the native lang beast in you, Shog? :)
It is a crappy thing, but it's life -^ Carlo Pallini
-
Yesterday evening I was browsing internet using Chrome. I was opened several tabs enjoying some nice turboprop airplanes pictures when suddenly the Vista’s crash window shows up. You know – this one which reads something like: “The Google Chrome application is not responding and need to be shut down…do you want to restart the program?…” or something similar. So I closed the error prompt and…continue with browsing the current page without any problems! The Chrome doesn’t crashed, there was no crashed tabs…everything was just okay! So I’m puzzled WTF was that? Either Vista for some reasons needs to fake Chrome crashes or there is the following source code somewhere inside the last updates:
private void CHandleWithCompetitors::Hook CurrentBrowser(LPDISPATCH *browserRef)
{
If(GetCurrentBrowser(browserRef) == GOOGLE_FUCKING_CHROME)
{
If(!BrowserTryCrash(browserRef))
{
throw CInternalEx(“BrowserUncrashableExseption”);
}
}
}The narrow specialist in the broad sense of the word is a complete idiot in the narrow sense of the word. Advertise here – minimum three posts per day are guaranteed.
Don't worry! It's about to become Historical. :-D
Henry Minute Do not read medical books! You could die of a misprint. - Mark Twain Girl: (staring) "Why do you need an icy cucumber?" “I want to report a fraud. The government is lying to us all.”
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Shog9 wrote:
Task Manager has no concept of an unresponsive application for windowless apps.
Exactly! Therefore my reply to John. So, I woke up the native lang beast in you, Shog? :)
It is a crappy thing, but it's life -^ Carlo Pallini
-
Yesterday evening I was browsing internet using Chrome. I was opened several tabs enjoying some nice turboprop airplanes pictures when suddenly the Vista’s crash window shows up. You know – this one which reads something like: “The Google Chrome application is not responding and need to be shut down…do you want to restart the program?…” or something similar. So I closed the error prompt and…continue with browsing the current page without any problems! The Chrome doesn’t crashed, there was no crashed tabs…everything was just okay! So I’m puzzled WTF was that? Either Vista for some reasons needs to fake Chrome crashes or there is the following source code somewhere inside the last updates:
private void CHandleWithCompetitors::Hook CurrentBrowser(LPDISPATCH *browserRef)
{
If(GetCurrentBrowser(browserRef) == GOOGLE_FUCKING_CHROME)
{
If(!BrowserTryCrash(browserRef))
{
throw CInternalEx(“BrowserUncrashableExseption”);
}
}
}The narrow specialist in the broad sense of the word is a complete idiot in the narrow sense of the word. Advertise here – minimum three posts per day are guaranteed.
chrome self-recovers from it's crashes.
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Don't worry! It's about to become Historical. :-D
Henry Minute Do not read medical books! You could die of a misprint. - Mark Twain Girl: (staring) "Why do you need an icy cucumber?" “I want to report a fraud. The government is lying to us all.”
:-D
The narrow specialist in the broad sense of the word is a complete idiot in the narrow sense of the word. Advertise here – minimum three posts per day are guaranteed.
