Overtime Compensation
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It's all way too complicated for anyone but greedy lawyers to understand http://www.flsa.com/coverage.html[^] According to the link above if your job is governed by FLSA and if you're classified as non-exempt, employer must pay overtime. So as the link says, unless computer type jobs are specifically excepted from FLSA or are covered by some some other federal law, any computer related job with non-exempt status must pay overtime. BTW, I'm not being combative here, I'm just interested in learning more about it. Got a link that says computer related jobs are not required to pay overtime?
Not a direct cite per se; but if it wasn't possible to near universally weasel out of doing so legally, I'm certain that bottom feeding lawyers (yeah yeah I know, redundant) would've stuffed their pockets with class action lawsuits on the issue.
The European Way of War: Blow your own continent up. The American Way of War: Go over and help them.
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How does everyone typically get compensated for overtime? Pay, time off, a thanks, more overtime...?
Trollslayer wrote:
Meetings - where minutes are taken and hours are lost.
I charge straight time. Realistically, I get a lot accomplished in a week and it is only true emergencies that cause me to work longer hours. Of course I am self-employed. If I were an employee of a company I would work whatever hours were initially agreed when I was hired and no more without compensation. Unpaid overtime is slavery.
Need custom software developed? I do C# development and consulting all over the United States. A man said to the universe: "Sir I exist!" "However," replied the universe, "The fact has not created in me A sense of obligation." --Stephen Crane
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I charge straight time. Realistically, I get a lot accomplished in a week and it is only true emergencies that cause me to work longer hours. Of course I am self-employed. If I were an employee of a company I would work whatever hours were initially agreed when I was hired and no more without compensation. Unpaid overtime is slavery.
Need custom software developed? I do C# development and consulting all over the United States. A man said to the universe: "Sir I exist!" "However," replied the universe, "The fact has not created in me A sense of obligation." --Stephen Crane
Ennis Ray Lynch, Jr. wrote:
Unpaid overtime is slavery.
Here Here!
Trollslayer wrote:
Meetings - where minutes are taken and hours are lost.
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Did you miss the part where he stated he completed his assignments within the schedule? It's been my experience, without exception, that companies that "expect" employees to do overtime are both poorly managed and abusive.
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No abuse intended, but if you worked for me, you would be high on the layoff list during a downturn. The reasons are: 1) You are obviously not a team player - you may have gotten your assignment done on time, but you could be helping others with their assignments. 2) You are undermining the moral of the rest of the team by holding yourself above the "pain" of getting the task done on schedule. 3) You are demonstrating that you are not interested in the success of the company; therefore the company owes no loyalty to you. Every aggressive company has crunch times when it expects its salaried employees to put in additional effort. As long as it is not an ongoing practice, it is the price you pay for not having to punch a time clock and a higher salary than a shop worker.
Melting Away www.deals-house.com www.innovative--concepts.com
modified on Sunday, August 2, 2009 11:48 PM
Snowman58 wrote:
it is the price you pay for not having to punch a time clock and a higher salary than a shop worker.
You are making a false assumption. I know I don't get paid as much as a shop worker. At least not a union worker of any typical manufacturing job.
Trollslayer wrote:
Meetings - where minutes are taken and hours are lost.
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How does everyone typically get compensated for overtime? Pay, time off, a thanks, more overtime...?
Trollslayer wrote:
Meetings - where minutes are taken and hours are lost.
I don't get compensated for any kind of overtime. But then again, I enjoy what I do and that is my only motivation to overtime. I don't care about time as a whole as long as I enjoy it and enjoyment is my reward. In general, I think highly motivated teams think beyond the issue of straight time and overtime. They enjoy what they do. But I do think, companies should give few things like a gift certificate to a restaurant or a store. Nothing too fancy and nothing too little. (This is of course in addition to the raises/bonuses).
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How does everyone typically get compensated for overtime? Pay, time off, a thanks, more overtime...?
Trollslayer wrote:
Meetings - where minutes are taken and hours are lost.
By expecting that it'll become regular operating procedure. :( That is, if you're lucky enough to have a manager that doesn't expect 70-80 hours a week to begin with (and yes, I was told in no uncertain terms at a job I had about 20 years ago that I was expected to put in 75 hours a week, salaried.) Marc
I'm not overthinking the problem, I just felt like I needed a small, unimportant, uninteresting rant! - Martin Hart Turner
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Can I get a Hallelujah?
Back in the blog beatch! http://CraptasticNation.blogspot.com/[^]
Hallelujah, brothers and sisters, say it again!
Software Zen:
delete this;
Fold With Us![^] -
By expecting that it'll become regular operating procedure. :( That is, if you're lucky enough to have a manager that doesn't expect 70-80 hours a week to begin with (and yes, I was told in no uncertain terms at a job I had about 20 years ago that I was expected to put in 75 hours a week, salaried.) Marc
I'm not overthinking the problem, I just felt like I needed a small, unimportant, uninteresting rant! - Martin Hart Turner
Marc Clifton wrote:
was expected to put in 75 hours a week, salaried
That guarentees one of two outcomes: Burnout within months or general goofing off on the job. Neither very helpfull to the hiring company! Not been in that extreme, but I've found myself in a department that frequently demanded 60hrs. 90% turnover in 18 months, everything late to the point of losing clients and firing employees christmas week to make everyone else buck up (in the middle of the tech boom, blessed relief more like).
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No abuse intended, but if you worked for me, you would be high on the layoff list during a downturn. The reasons are: 1) You are obviously not a team player - you may have gotten your assignment done on time, but you could be helping others with their assignments. 2) You are undermining the moral of the rest of the team by holding yourself above the "pain" of getting the task done on schedule. 3) You are demonstrating that you are not interested in the success of the company; therefore the company owes no loyalty to you. Every aggressive company has crunch times when it expects its salaried employees to put in additional effort. As long as it is not an ongoing practice, it is the price you pay for not having to punch a time clock and a higher salary than a shop worker.
Melting Away www.deals-house.com www.innovative--concepts.com
modified on Sunday, August 2, 2009 11:48 PM
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How does everyone typically get compensated for overtime? Pay, time off, a thanks, more overtime...?
Trollslayer wrote:
Meetings - where minutes are taken and hours are lost.
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3) You are demonstrating that you are not interested in the success of the company; therefore the company owes no loyalty to you. Loyalty from the company? Does that even exist anymore?
dighn wrote:
Loyalty from the company? Does that even exist anymore?
In small companies, yes, because of the inevitable personal relationships (it's hard to fire someone you know and like). In large companies not at all. Not because there aren't the same relationships as above, but because the decisions typically come from other departments where you are just a number.
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No abuse intended, but if you worked for me, you would be high on the layoff list during a downturn. The reasons are: 1) You are obviously not a team player - you may have gotten your assignment done on time, but you could be helping others with their assignments. 2) You are undermining the moral of the rest of the team by holding yourself above the "pain" of getting the task done on schedule. 3) You are demonstrating that you are not interested in the success of the company; therefore the company owes no loyalty to you. Every aggressive company has crunch times when it expects its salaried employees to put in additional effort. As long as it is not an ongoing practice, it is the price you pay for not having to punch a time clock and a higher salary than a shop worker.
Melting Away www.deals-house.com www.innovative--concepts.com
modified on Sunday, August 2, 2009 11:48 PM
You know what? I've been working for the same company for 19 years. I have survived more economic turns of the wheel than I can count.
Snowman58 wrote:
You are obviously not a team player
Wrong. In my department, I have the unofficial position of Departmental Sh!t-Job Boy. As the DSJB, I administer our department server, our source control system, our automated build process, and a host of other activities that keep our development group operating efficiently. Most of this is voluntary, and I consistently receive appreciative remarks on my appraisals for stepping up and doing all the crap nobody else wants to. In case you're wondering, this is on top of my regular responsibilities as one of the three senior developers in a group of 12.
Snowman58 wrote:
You are undermining the moral of the rest of the team by holding yourself above the "pain" of getting the task done on schedule
Not hardly. It's fairly rare that we, as a group, have to put in overtime. I've done it occasionally, when others have done so, even when I was only tangentially involved in the crisis at hand. The biggest reason we have to put in overtime is that we are overcommitted by engineering management. Our group of 12 supports 5 products, some of which have 2 or 3 active branches, along with any number of special projects. Our running joke is that we always have to figure out which of our half-dozen number-one top priorities we are supposed to be working on.
Snowman58 wrote:
You are demonstrating that you are not interested in the success of the company
Bullshit. My contribution to the success of the company is doing the best job I know how to do, in the most efficient manner possible. Overtime burns people out and increases the error rate. It's a losing proposition.
Snowman58 wrote:
Every aggressive company has crunch times when it expects its salaried employees to put in additional effort
Some companies make it a policy for it to always be crunch time. I've worked for a couple of those in the past. A company will take advantage of people who don't say no to overtime.
Software Zen:
delete this;
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3) You are demonstrating that you are not interested in the success of the company; therefore the company owes no loyalty to you. Loyalty from the company? Does that even exist anymore?
Anyone who treats their employer, large or small, as if they have some emotional attachment to them, is a fool. Your boss may like you and appreciate what you do. If there is an economic reason to lay you off, they will, regardless of their feelings.
Software Zen:
delete this;
Fold With Us![^] -
What if someone wants to work a couple of hours late because he needs to either come in late (or leave early) in a day or two ? (overtime is not always due to bad management)
This signature was proudly tested on animals.
Software Zen:
delete this;
Fold With Us![^] -
No abuse intended, but if you worked for me, you would be high on the layoff list during a downturn. The reasons are: 1) You are obviously not a team player - you may have gotten your assignment done on time, but you could be helping others with their assignments. 2) You are undermining the moral of the rest of the team by holding yourself above the "pain" of getting the task done on schedule. 3) You are demonstrating that you are not interested in the success of the company; therefore the company owes no loyalty to you. Every aggressive company has crunch times when it expects its salaried employees to put in additional effort. As long as it is not an ongoing practice, it is the price you pay for not having to punch a time clock and a higher salary than a shop worker.
Melting Away www.deals-house.com www.innovative--concepts.com
modified on Sunday, August 2, 2009 11:48 PM
No abuse intended as well but people with your mentality are exactly why corporate life is hell. And, as someone who employes extremely efficient and self sufficient programmers I would never hire you. The reasons are: 1) You obviously are not a balanced individual - you try and make up for your lack of any semblance of a meaningful life by attempting to force people to work additional hours without compensation. Why? Because you never had the balls to tell someone 'no'. 2) You are undermining your co-workers moral. You think that because you experience 'pain' due to your inability to meet your deadlines then everybody else should be miserable. 3) You over-think and over estimate your importance to the company. Every intelligent company that runs into a crunch time realizes that their good employees need to be treated well and compensated for their time. You obviously have never worked for a quality employer and have no clue how important it is to keep your core team working effectively.
Sovereign ingredient for a happy marriage: Pay cash or do without. Interest charges not only eat up a household budget; awareness of debt eats up domestic felicity. --Lazarus Long Avoid the crowd. Do your own thinking independently. Be the chess player, not the chess piece. --Ralph Charell
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No abuse intended, but if you worked for me, you would be high on the layoff list during a downturn. The reasons are: 1) You are obviously not a team player - you may have gotten your assignment done on time, but you could be helping others with their assignments. 2) You are undermining the moral of the rest of the team by holding yourself above the "pain" of getting the task done on schedule. 3) You are demonstrating that you are not interested in the success of the company; therefore the company owes no loyalty to you. Every aggressive company has crunch times when it expects its salaried employees to put in additional effort. As long as it is not an ongoing practice, it is the price you pay for not having to punch a time clock and a higher salary than a shop worker.
Melting Away www.deals-house.com www.innovative--concepts.com
modified on Sunday, August 2, 2009 11:48 PM
You seem like a moron to me.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
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How does everyone typically get compensated for overtime? Pay, time off, a thanks, more overtime...?
Trollslayer wrote:
Meetings - where minutes are taken and hours are lost.
If it looks like it is going to be something that is common you should negotiate something in writing. Personally I prefer time off.
Shelby Robetson wrote:
time off,
One place I worked we used to get comp time i.e. one hour off for every hour worked. If you are in this situation make sure it is in writing. After a management change they tried to remove this compensation and within a month all but two of the original core team of twelve had resigned.
Sovereign ingredient for a happy marriage: Pay cash or do without. Interest charges not only eat up a household budget; awareness of debt eats up domestic felicity. --Lazarus Long Avoid the crowd. Do your own thinking independently. Be the chess player, not the chess piece. --Ralph Charell
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How does everyone typically get compensated for overtime? Pay, time off, a thanks, more overtime...?
Trollslayer wrote:
Meetings - where minutes are taken and hours are lost.
Interestingly my hours as stated in the contract are 8:30am to 6:15 with 45 minutes for lunch. The actualy work hour are approx 9am to 7pm with 2 hours lunch. Never been paid overtime in my entire development career. Do the hours to get the job done, I've been known to take work home and also take days off, neither affecting my compensation. My boss is happy with the results and I get paid, handsomely.
Never underestimate the power of human stupidity RAH
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You know what? I've been working for the same company for 19 years. I have survived more economic turns of the wheel than I can count.
Snowman58 wrote:
You are obviously not a team player
Wrong. In my department, I have the unofficial position of Departmental Sh!t-Job Boy. As the DSJB, I administer our department server, our source control system, our automated build process, and a host of other activities that keep our development group operating efficiently. Most of this is voluntary, and I consistently receive appreciative remarks on my appraisals for stepping up and doing all the crap nobody else wants to. In case you're wondering, this is on top of my regular responsibilities as one of the three senior developers in a group of 12.
Snowman58 wrote:
You are undermining the moral of the rest of the team by holding yourself above the "pain" of getting the task done on schedule
Not hardly. It's fairly rare that we, as a group, have to put in overtime. I've done it occasionally, when others have done so, even when I was only tangentially involved in the crisis at hand. The biggest reason we have to put in overtime is that we are overcommitted by engineering management. Our group of 12 supports 5 products, some of which have 2 or 3 active branches, along with any number of special projects. Our running joke is that we always have to figure out which of our half-dozen number-one top priorities we are supposed to be working on.
Snowman58 wrote:
You are demonstrating that you are not interested in the success of the company
Bullshit. My contribution to the success of the company is doing the best job I know how to do, in the most efficient manner possible. Overtime burns people out and increases the error rate. It's a losing proposition.
Snowman58 wrote:
Every aggressive company has crunch times when it expects its salaried employees to put in additional effort
Some companies make it a policy for it to always be crunch time. I've worked for a couple of those in the past. A company will take advantage of people who don't say no to overtime.
Software Zen:
delete this;
Fold WithGary R. Wheeler wrote:
Overtime burns people out and increases the error rate. It's a losing proposition.
Amen. I once worked from 7 am to 10 pm, and my co workers had shown up for work at midday. I told my boss at 10, I can stay here and write bugs, or I can get some sleep. The image of the hero coder working through the night, does not gel with reality.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.