First Impressions
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Hi, Shog. I agree with your point, but I did want to point out that picking out an errant semi-colon in dense code and proof-reading a CV use different sets of language rules and skills. I'd argue the rules for programming languages are laid out more thoughtfully than the rules for spoken or written languages. Not to mention a programmer may have more experience proof-reading code than proof-reading his/her language. :-\ But, yes. You are hiring someone who not only needs to speak well to computers, but also to potential customers (through direct contact or through documentation). So, communication skills are a must. If their CV looks like crap, just imagine what kind of documentation they may produce... *shudder* Cheers! :beer: Flynn
Flynn Arrowstarr wrote:
I agree with your point, but I did want to point out that picking out an errant semi-colon in dense code and proof-reading a CV use different sets of language rules and skills.
Yes, i agree with that. But, the OP mentioned "typos" - inadvertent errors, misplaced keystrokes and the like. That's the difference between expecting a C programmer to notice a semicolon between an if condition and block... and expecting a VB programmer to see the same thing.
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Flynn Arrowstarr wrote:
I agree with your point, but I did want to point out that picking out an errant semi-colon in dense code and proof-reading a CV use different sets of language rules and skills.
Yes, i agree with that. But, the OP mentioned "typos" - inadvertent errors, misplaced keystrokes and the like. That's the difference between expecting a C programmer to notice a semicolon between an if condition and block... and expecting a VB programmer to see the same thing.
Shog9 wrote:
That's the difference between expecting a C programmer to notice a semicolon between an if condition and block... and expecting a VB programmer to see the same thing.
That's why I included the second paragraph. I'd be less concerned with the person writing/proof-reading application source than with writing/proof-reading documentation. Particularly any documentation which will be released into the wild. The applicant may have impeccable code-writing/proofing skills, but simply suck at written communication. At that point, if the applicant scores high enough on the skill-set, I may be willing to sit through a telephone interview to see if they can back up their skill set, and then work with them on their communications skills. If they don't, it goes in the "do not hire" bin. :) Note, I'm not responsible for hiring anyone, so take my opinions with a canister of salt, heh. Flynn -- did I hear someone say, "Thank goodness!"? :-\
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Shog9 wrote:
That's the difference between expecting a C programmer to notice a semicolon between an if condition and block... and expecting a VB programmer to see the same thing.
That's why I included the second paragraph. I'd be less concerned with the person writing/proof-reading application source than with writing/proof-reading documentation. Particularly any documentation which will be released into the wild. The applicant may have impeccable code-writing/proofing skills, but simply suck at written communication. At that point, if the applicant scores high enough on the skill-set, I may be willing to sit through a telephone interview to see if they can back up their skill set, and then work with them on their communications skills. If they don't, it goes in the "do not hire" bin. :) Note, I'm not responsible for hiring anyone, so take my opinions with a canister of salt, heh. Flynn -- did I hear someone say, "Thank goodness!"? :-\
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Electron Shepherd wrote:
It always helps to get a person's name correct
Only if you are looking for work. I'm turning it down these days, so I don't give a flying flip what their names are. :cool:
Jon "One loves to possess arms, though they hope never to have occasion for them." --Thomas Jefferson to George Washington, 1796. Soap Box 1.0: the first, the original, reborn troll-less
Oakman wrote:
I'm turning it down these days
I envy you. I've been "resting" for the better part of a year. :(
Kevin
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Hi, Shog. I agree with your point, but I did want to point out that picking out an errant semi-colon in dense code and proof-reading a CV use different sets of language rules and skills. I'd argue the rules for programming languages are laid out more thoughtfully than the rules for spoken or written languages. Not to mention a programmer may have more experience proof-reading code than proof-reading his/her language. :-\ But, yes. You are hiring someone who not only needs to speak well to computers, but also to potential customers (through direct contact or through documentation). So, communication skills are a must. If their CV looks like crap, just imagine what kind of documentation they may produce... *shudder* Cheers! :beer: Flynn
Flynn Arrowstarr wrote:
If their CV looks like crap, just imagine what kind of documentation they may produce... *shudder*
This is to assume that they produce any documentation at all of course! :)
Kevin
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Oakman wrote:
I'm turning it down these days
I envy you. I've been "resting" for the better part of a year. :(
Kevin
Kevin McFarlane wrote:
I envy you. I've been "resting" for the better part of a year
I was there for awhile. Now I work for me (and a couple of partners), the hours suck and my boss doesn't accept any excuses, but on the other hand, the challenges are monumental and the benefits are almost non-existent. I wouldn't go back for love nor money.
Jon "One loves to possess arms, though they hope never to have occasion for them." --Thomas Jefferson to George Washington, 1796. Soap Box 1.0: the first, the original, reborn troll-less
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With so many candidates on the market looking for work, it seems like first impressions would be of the utmost importance. Yet, I still am receiving resumes with numerous typos. I take these typos very seriously when considering a potential employee/contractor given the fact I may either have to maintain, modify, fix code they have written at some point. Am I over reacting?
While I generally agree with you, I don't put quite the emphasis I used to on certain types of spelling errors. Especially what I call spell check induced errors. My typing skills were learned on a key punch machine and my spelling is abominable, so I spend extra time trying to find my errors. Occasionally I will find words I had miss typed/spelled have been auto-corrected by the spell check, but it has selected the wrong word. Those can be especially hard to catch.
Melting Away www.deals-house.com www.innovative--concepts.com
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While I generally agree with you, I don't put quite the emphasis I used to on certain types of spelling errors. Especially what I call spell check induced errors. My typing skills were learned on a key punch machine and my spelling is abominable, so I spend extra time trying to find my errors. Occasionally I will find words I had miss typed/spelled have been auto-corrected by the spell check, but it has selected the wrong word. Those can be especially hard to catch.
Melting Away www.deals-house.com www.innovative--concepts.com
The extra time you put into your resume to find the errors is really what I'm looking for and what I'm calling to question here. If someone doesn't care to take the time to review their resume thoroughly prior to submitting it for employment, why should I think they would do any different when they complete a development task? Thanks for your reply.
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With so many candidates on the market looking for work, it seems like first impressions would be of the utmost importance. Yet, I still am receiving resumes with numerous typos. I take these typos very seriously when considering a potential employee/contractor given the fact I may either have to maintain, modify, fix code they have written at some point. Am I over reacting?
Wil Peck wrote:
I take these typos very seriously when considering a potential employee/contractor given the fact I may either have to maintain, modify, fix code they have written at some point. Am I over reacting?
Not if you are hiring a secretary. If you are hiring a developer as long as they misspell consistently they are just naming another variable. :~
Simply Elegant Designs JimmyRopes Designs
Think inside the box! ProActive Secure Systems
I'm on-line therefore I am. JimmyRopes -
There is nothing terribly wrong about the odd typo, (one or two), in a lengthy CV, particularly on 'difficult' words, but more than a couple, and on words they ought to know delivers that CV into the bin. A lax mind when doing a CV makes one wonder as to the concentration when doing actual work.
------------------------------------ "When Belly Full, Chin Hit Chest" Confucius 502BC
Dalek Dave wrote:
There is nothing terribly wrong about the odd typo, (one or two), in a lengthy CV, particularly on 'difficult' words, but more than a couple, and on words they ought to know delivers that CV into the bin.
For many years, in primary and high school, I was told that I wouldn't amount to anything because I had difficulty spelling. At University, in the Department of Mathematics, I finally was united with my tribe. Different endeavors require different aptitudes. It wasn't until I was accepted into a University program in theoretical mathematics that I realized that not being able to spell, although not a requirement, was an indicator of aptitude to complete the course work. We had many courses that didn't even use numbers, except as a sanity check, and even then we would take liberties like cancel pi with 3, etc. It was close enough to prove you were in the same universe. The precise answer was of no interest to us. It was more important to be able to develop a theorem or corollary than solve a particular problem. I haven't yet met a natural developer that could spell. Some people who can spell eventually become competent, but they are limited by their affliction of being too orderly. Natural developers are able to do thing not even imagined by the run of the mill developer, and there is no need to train them, they do it naturally. Sorry to say Dave you are probably a good accountant who can program, and in your line of work that is probably all it takes. Coming up with a new concept would probably take someone who can't spell. <edit> Having said all that yuou probably aren't interviewing for a position in an R&D lab so you should dismiss people who can't spell, or use the proper form of speach. They wouldn't be happy doing the work you are offering, and you probably wpouldn't be happy with what they produce. :-D </edit>
Simply Elegant Designs JimmyRopes Designs
Think inside the box! ProActive Secure Systems
I'm on-line therefore I am. JimmyRopesmodified on Monday, August 3, 2009 7:59 PM
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Kevin McFarlane wrote:
I envy you. I've been "resting" for the better part of a year
I was there for awhile. Now I work for me (and a couple of partners), the hours suck and my boss doesn't accept any excuses, but on the other hand, the challenges are monumental and the benefits are almost non-existent. I wouldn't go back for love nor money.
Jon "One loves to possess arms, though they hope never to have occasion for them." --Thomas Jefferson to George Washington, 1796. Soap Box 1.0: the first, the original, reborn troll-less
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But being you own boss means you can fire your self in the evening and rehire yourself the next morning.
frakier wrote:
But being you own boss means you can fire your self in the evening and rehire yourself the next morning
Yeah, but I'm too smart for that. I just threaten to fire me if I don't put in overtime (unpaid of course.)
Jon "One loves to possess arms, though they hope never to have occasion for them." --Thomas Jefferson to George Washington, 1796. Soap Box 1.0: the first, the original, reborn troll-less
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frakier wrote:
But being you own boss means you can fire your self in the evening and rehire yourself the next morning
Yeah, but I'm too smart for that. I just threaten to fire me if I don't put in overtime (unpaid of course.)
Jon "One loves to possess arms, though they hope never to have occasion for them." --Thomas Jefferson to George Washington, 1796. Soap Box 1.0: the first, the original, reborn troll-less
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You know you will have to fire yourself at least once, just so you will take yourself serious the next time.
frakier wrote:
You know you will have to fire yourself at least once,
I did that back in 2000 when I saw the dotcom boom starting to bust. Went to work for a large company, shepherded them into the world of .NET and then in 2004 went crazy and joined a pre-IPO for salary and a percentage. A year and a half later there was neither IPO nor stock nor salary, so I swallowed my pride and begged me for my old job back. I made me crawl a little bit, but I finally relented and rehired myself at 75% of what I had been paying me.
Jon "One loves to possess arms, though they hope never to have occasion for them." --Thomas Jefferson to George Washington, 1796. Soap Box 1.0: the first, the original, reborn troll-less