UK Government To Install Surveillance Cameras In Private Homes (RF-Chippy) [modified]
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He's turning into Idíot. It's sad.
:~ Since when has this been news or concern to you?
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Yeah, I can see it now. Rather odd. If I can be bothered, I'll have a look. Having read some of this thread's comments, I'm not holding out much hope though - it seems fairly [rubbish|inaccurate|misleading]
Between the idea And the reality Between the motion And the act Falls the Shadow
Just because you're paranoid (and CSS) doesn't mean there isn't cause for concern.
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Still you find no support in the journalists statement of [quote] The Children’s Secretary set out £400million plans to put 20,000 problem families under 24-hour CCTV super-vision in their own homes. They will be monitored to ensure that children attend school, go to bed on time and eat proper meals. [/quote] And no mentions whatsoever of this being done in "the home". IN FACT, you should read all the pages relevant here http://www.yjb.gov.uk/en-gb/yjs/SentencesOrdersandAgreements/IntensiveSupervisionAndSurveillanceProgramme/[^] then when you have done that, finding EXACTLY what is meant by "surveillance" then read this Management Guidance issued by the Youth Justice Board http://www.yjb.gov.uk/Publications/Resources/Downloads/ISSP%20Management%20Guidance%20Updated%200808.pdf[^]. Then you might be better informed than that political journalist.
Richard A. Abbott wrote:
Still you find no support in the journalists statement of
You can't blame Josh for the journalist's breadth of reality.
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Alex hogarth wrote:
what would your answer be?
Well first off the UK government broadly defines anti-social behavior to include just about anything they dictate as inappropriate. Second, the authorities can come in and inspect the home of anyone who is ratted out, but this is normal for the UK. Even back in the 1700s King George III enforced the Stamp Act on the American colonies which required every piece of paper, pamphlet, poster, ANY PIECE OF PAPER REGARDLESS OF WHAT IT IS USED FOR, be stamped with the king's stamp. How did they enforce this? The king gave the right to authorities to write their own search warrants to inspect people's homes, which is what they are doing now but all they need is someone's word that a family is anti-social. If someone is truly abusive or neglecting his or her children, then they should go to jail for a while and the children can live with other family or a willing adopter family or a temporary intervention family.
Alex hogarth wrote:
or are you opposed to this as it would be difficult to give the kids porn
I never advocated giving kids porn. I said I was against state sex-ed because they do show inappropriate material to young kids. My little brother when he was 10 or 11 told me that the school was showing a video of a man ejaculating. I don't think that is necessary for such a young mind. I'd like you to quote me saying I advocate giving porn to kids. You can't because I didn't.
CaptainSeeSharp wrote:
Second, the authorities can come in and inspect the home of anyone who is ratted out, but this is normal for the UK.
Crazy statement you make. NOBODY, repeat NOBODY can enter a private premises without 1. The owners permission 2. A Court Order 3. To prevent an on-going crime or 4. To prevent a disaster just a gas leak turning into a explosive situation.
CaptainSeeSharp wrote:
I'd like you to quote me saying I advocate giving porn to kids.
I wouldn't like to quote anything you spew. However, sex education of the right type delivered at the right time to the right people will help young people to better prepare themselves for the adult world they will be joining including all the unsavory aspects of unwanted pregnancies and sexually transmitted diseases.
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Richard A. Abbott wrote:
Still you find no support in the journalists statement of
You can't blame Josh for the journalist's breadth of reality.
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Just because you're paranoid (and CSS) doesn't mean there isn't cause for concern.
How on did you get paranoia from my post? I said that the momentary downtime of the link was odd, and that I might have a glance over it later. I also said that the rest of the comments indicated that the journalist was, among other things, misleading. Where did I seem paranoid, or are you against me too? ;)
Between the idea And the reality Between the motion And the act Falls the Shadow
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Alex hogarth wrote:
what would your answer be?
Well first off the UK government broadly defines anti-social behavior to include just about anything they dictate as inappropriate. Second, the authorities can come in and inspect the home of anyone who is ratted out, but this is normal for the UK. Even back in the 1700s King George III enforced the Stamp Act on the American colonies which required every piece of paper, pamphlet, poster, ANY PIECE OF PAPER REGARDLESS OF WHAT IT IS USED FOR, be stamped with the king's stamp. How did they enforce this? The king gave the right to authorities to write their own search warrants to inspect people's homes, which is what they are doing now but all they need is someone's word that a family is anti-social. If someone is truly abusive or neglecting his or her children, then they should go to jail for a while and the children can live with other family or a willing adopter family or a temporary intervention family.
Alex hogarth wrote:
or are you opposed to this as it would be difficult to give the kids porn
I never advocated giving kids porn. I said I was against state sex-ed because they do show inappropriate material to young kids. My little brother when he was 10 or 11 told me that the school was showing a video of a man ejaculating. I don't think that is necessary for such a young mind. I'd like you to quote me saying I advocate giving porn to kids. You can't because I didn't.
firstly you dont know what the Uk govenment classes as antisocial because you cannot do the research pure and simple, you take a rabbied columnist and take her words as gospel despite there not only being a lot of controdicting information available but posters her showing you where to look, you then say we are being brainwashed and cowtowed because we investigate the facts, when it is obviously you who is being conned, you take a single source as your "belief" despite the dubious orgins and your one track mind goes off on it merry way, this is a sure sign that you have been mind conrolleed by these people - a free man will instigate and understand and not just accept mindless drivel - in short YOU ARE THEN PEOPLE YOU CLAIM WE ARE BECOMING - a person who will accept anything that is fed you by a single source regardless of that source's motives re the stamp act The Act extended the British Stamp Act to America and taxed all newspapers, legal documents, licenses, dice, playing cards and official documents - not all bits of paper as you claim. this was introduced to pay for the ongoing was against the french, and america being a BRITISH colony (and a damn rich one) was expected to share its burden. the rights of kings were legion, if you were not born of nobel birth or rich or a member of parliment then you were a surf. it is of note that even after your little rebellion your citizens didnot have the right to refuse the entry of addmission to those in authority. and bear in mind the way you treated the NATIVE AMERICANS then i dont think you have a single argument as to how we Brits treated you. but you said give children porn clear as day you said it - I know it was conditionlised but as you have stated a hundred times to Christian Graus the fact that he conditionalised his view on comunism and child abuse didnot change your opinion that he supported both, so i applied the same logic to your statement ergo you support giving porn to children
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CaptainSeeSharp wrote:
Doublethink is the power of holding two contradictory beliefs in one's mind simultaneously, and accepting both of them.
That makes me a SuperHero.
Brady Kelly wrote:
That makes me a SuperHero.
Do you have a cape. :laugh:
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firstly you dont know what the Uk govenment classes as antisocial because you cannot do the research pure and simple, you take a rabbied columnist and take her words as gospel despite there not only being a lot of controdicting information available but posters her showing you where to look, you then say we are being brainwashed and cowtowed because we investigate the facts, when it is obviously you who is being conned, you take a single source as your "belief" despite the dubious orgins and your one track mind goes off on it merry way, this is a sure sign that you have been mind conrolleed by these people - a free man will instigate and understand and not just accept mindless drivel - in short YOU ARE THEN PEOPLE YOU CLAIM WE ARE BECOMING - a person who will accept anything that is fed you by a single source regardless of that source's motives re the stamp act The Act extended the British Stamp Act to America and taxed all newspapers, legal documents, licenses, dice, playing cards and official documents - not all bits of paper as you claim. this was introduced to pay for the ongoing was against the french, and america being a BRITISH colony (and a damn rich one) was expected to share its burden. the rights of kings were legion, if you were not born of nobel birth or rich or a member of parliment then you were a surf. it is of note that even after your little rebellion your citizens didnot have the right to refuse the entry of addmission to those in authority. and bear in mind the way you treated the NATIVE AMERICANS then i dont think you have a single argument as to how we Brits treated you. but you said give children porn clear as day you said it - I know it was conditionlised but as you have stated a hundred times to Christian Graus the fact that he conditionalised his view on comunism and child abuse didnot change your opinion that he supported both, so i applied the same logic to your statement ergo you support giving porn to children
:laugh: You are a stupid troll. Don't get your panties in a bunch before tea time. It wouldn't be proper, might even be anti-social behavior.
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CaptainSeeSharp wrote:
Second, the authorities can come in and inspect the home of anyone who is ratted out, but this is normal for the UK.
Crazy statement you make. NOBODY, repeat NOBODY can enter a private premises without 1. The owners permission 2. A Court Order 3. To prevent an on-going crime or 4. To prevent a disaster just a gas leak turning into a explosive situation.
CaptainSeeSharp wrote:
I'd like you to quote me saying I advocate giving porn to kids.
I wouldn't like to quote anything you spew. However, sex education of the right type delivered at the right time to the right people will help young people to better prepare themselves for the adult world they will be joining including all the unsavory aspects of unwanted pregnancies and sexually transmitted diseases.
Actually custom and excise can and always could enter without a warrant. but not social services which is the department involved here, and social seervices cannot obtain a warrant they need to approach the police to get it who then needs to put it before a judge.
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:laugh: You are a stupid troll. Don't get your panties in a bunch before tea time. It wouldn't be proper, might even be anti-social behavior.
go polish your gun it will relieve stress you seem to get upset when confronted by your own behaviour, I have applied the exact criteria to you as you applied to others and yet I am a troll? but surely that would mean that you are not only a troll but a self confessed one! I have a nice job, a loving wife, kids, house, car, bike and most of the toys I require, Iam reasonably well read, I have the ability to make my own mind up about the things I read, I rarely take any Internet source as being correct and will allways cross reference before making up my mind and most of all I dont think everyone is out to get me. What you seem to be looking for is some form of communism, or perhaps anachy and I wish you well because i would hate to live in either oh and i do hope that ypu bump into a like minded person (but hopefully he will have a bigger gun and you will cease to be a problem)
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OK, I type this again, after once being thwarted by the auth. Whatever the Cap'n's maladies, he has raised a valid point. The people of Britain stand a very, frightening risk of this kind of shit being pulled on them. Just ask Holland. This is not a figment, but a story', not imagined by the Cap'n, but actually constructed by deluded leftits the world around.
You are of course right to have concerns. There is a fine balancing act that needs constant monitoring to ensure the balance does not go too far one way or the other way. This is a problem that first past the post electoral democracies have to weigh. With a huge majority of one political party that forms the government could, and sometimes does, mean that unwelcome, unsavory, and often badly worded legislation can be forced through. With a hung or minority governing party, you are more likely to have consensus politics.
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Brady Kelly wrote:
That makes me a SuperHero.
Do you have a cape. :laugh:
Yes! :) Cape Town, in fact. :doh:
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Actually custom and excise can and always could enter without a warrant. but not social services which is the department involved here, and social seervices cannot obtain a warrant they need to approach the police to get it who then needs to put it before a judge.
Alex hogarth wrote:
Actually custom and excise can and always could enter without a warrant.
Nope, as far as I am aware, even they need to get a Court Order to enter, except to stop an on-going crime in which case the Constabulary will also be involved. (Police and Criminal Evidence Act is relevant). But that is besides the point. You are correct with regards to Social Services.
modified on Tuesday, August 4, 2009 9:36 AM
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Alex hogarth wrote:
Actually custom and excise can and always could enter without a warrant.
Nope, as far as I am aware, even they need to get a Court Order to enter, except to stop an on-going crime in which case the Constabulary will also be involved. (Police and Criminal Evidence Act is relevant). But that is besides the point. You are correct with regards to Social Services.
modified on Tuesday, August 4, 2009 9:36 AM
SOMEBODY IS WRONG ON THE INTERNET!!!
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Alex hogarth wrote:
Actually custom and excise can and always could enter without a warrant.
Nope, as far as I am aware, even they need to get a Court Order to enter, except to stop an on-going crime in which case the Constabulary will also be involved. (Police and Criminal Evidence Act is relevant). But that is besides the point. You are correct with regards to Social Services.
modified on Tuesday, August 4, 2009 9:36 AM
I was supprised too but I am of the belief that HMCE do have the right of entry without a warrant, which when you consider that MI5 and MI6 both need warrants makes it a bit strange
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I was supprised too but I am of the belief that HMCE do have the right of entry without a warrant, which when you consider that MI5 and MI6 both need warrants makes it a bit strange
HM Customs & Excise used to have quite draconian powers. But that is history. Today, Customs & Excise joined with Inland Revenue to form HMRC (HM Revenue & Customs). The Police & Criminal Evidence Act 1984 (PACE) did change how many authorities behave, including Customs & Excise. Read here http://customs.hmrc.gov.uk/channelsPortalWebApp/downloadFile?contentID=HMCE_PROD1_027312[^] Of course, Customs still retains some of their inherited powers but it is now more formalized into this umbrella PACE and various relating statutory instruments.
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HM Customs & Excise used to have quite draconian powers. But that is history. Today, Customs & Excise joined with Inland Revenue to form HMRC (HM Revenue & Customs). The Police & Criminal Evidence Act 1984 (PACE) did change how many authorities behave, including Customs & Excise. Read here http://customs.hmrc.gov.uk/channelsPortalWebApp/downloadFile?contentID=HMCE_PROD1_027312[^] Of course, Customs still retains some of their inherited powers but it is now more formalized into this umbrella PACE and various relating statutory instruments.
I stand corrected
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and you pointed to a link with no explanation. Again. So, I had to guess what you were saying.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
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Christian Graus wrote:
To whatever degree it is true that this is happening in the UK, it wouldn't ever happen here, any more than it would in the US.
My recent sentiment includes this assertion. People in the UK are not less deserving of republican liberty than you in Australia, or those in the USA.
Agreed. Which is why I was surprised that this may be happening to them
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.