Is Codeproject getting soft?
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I totally agree with these two guys. This place is for coding, finding solutions etc. We need more code samples, not news. My two pennys worth :
There must be over 750 articles here, all for free, and you guys complain that this site isn't good enough and it should be better, there should be more. How about saying Thank You instead of bitching and being ungrateful for something that you don't have to read and you don't have to pay for
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Actually, HP is using the BCG Library (what Paul keeps calling the Stas library, the developer's first name). And it's not like MS is exactly a large producer of apps that use MFC either..
Hello Jim, Nice points there. What we needed is a community of developers to help each other. When your *lights* go off, and you run to CodeProject/Codeguru site to find a solution there could be nothing better. Oh! after the smile you open the package to find, not-be-be-used-in-commercial-applications, you will curse your day! I personally do not write commercial applications *directly" now, but just not happy about this restriction on intermediate solutions, which at times provide only idea but not a desired design and you will have to recode a lot of parts to your needs. Very simple copyright notices should not hurt anyone here, since we all benefit from each others code. This is the only way one could feel belonging to a family of developers, and will be more than satisfied to throw out any cool work he/she does--my humble thoughts. Paul.
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Hello Jim, Nice points there. What we needed is a community of developers to help each other. When your *lights* go off, and you run to CodeProject/Codeguru site to find a solution there could be nothing better. Oh! after the smile you open the package to find, not-be-be-used-in-commercial-applications, you will curse your day! I personally do not write commercial applications *directly" now, but just not happy about this restriction on intermediate solutions, which at times provide only idea but not a desired design and you will have to recode a lot of parts to your needs. Very simple copyright notices should not hurt anyone here, since we all benefit from each others code. This is the only way one could feel belonging to a family of developers, and will be more than satisfied to throw out any cool work he/she does--my humble thoughts. Paul.
Paul Are you missing the point on purpose? This issue has absolutely nothing to do with CodeProject or CodeGuru. CP can't give people permission to use code posted on CP, for the simple reason that CP does not have any way to legally establish who owns the code posted here. It's just that simple. So if you use it in a commercial app you leave yourself open. Not to CP, but to some developer who might be able to legally establish their ownership of code you used without their permission. You are twisting things to make it look like a CP/CG "restriction." It really doesn't have anything to do with software either, for that matter. Let's say I collect 35 short story submissions from anonymous posters on a literature bulletin board. I'm not going to turn around and put them in a book, and publish it and sell it. Why? Because I have no idea whose work it really is. If I were a book publisher I would get legal protection in the form of warranties or assurances from the submitting author that they owned the copyright on the works they were submitting. Same issue applies here. It's not fair to portray it as a CodeProject or CodeGuru restriction, when it is just simply the way things work in **ALL** intellectual property matters. Gordy
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Sorry for the delay in replying to this - I've got the flu and feel like crap at the moment. CodeProject is a site for developers like you and me. It's not an online version of MSDN. I started this site simply because I wanted a place where developers could share their experiences in learning and help others who were just beginning. If you want the best technical information on windows development then there are thousands of books out there that are far more convenient to read and learn from than CodeProject. If you want to feel part of a real community, meet others, have your code praised / criticised / improved then CodeProject is the place to be. I am trying to build a place that is fun to hang out at, and a place where there is no "them and us" mentality. I want to try and bring "industry" (ie Microsoft, DevelopMentor etc) and "developers" (us!) together - since in the end the two are one and the same. The site is you. It's what you guys make it. Everything is open, everything can be commented on, and everyone can have their say. If you want more techinical articles then send stuff in and this will encourage others. If there are bits you don't like then don't read them - or send in suggestions how they can be improved. This is pretty much a one-man show so some suggestions will take a while to be implemented - but I am working my ass off for you guys to give you something you enjoy. Help me to help you. cheers, Chris Maunde
Chris I agree with you, theres enough documentation to send you insane available, its good to have some light hearted news and views to read. I personally use the site everyday, learn alot and use it as a break from work. Keep up the good work, there are people out here that appreciate your effort
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Is it only me or is everyone as well feeling that Codeproject is increasingly getting political and simply is a accumulating more "fluff" that's not really hot? Lots of interviews, discussions, information on trips to Redmond....etc...these are fine, but I think Codeproject's overdoing it. Not good for Codeproject's health. Even the BIG interviews (apparently with Matt Pietrek, Chris Sells) don't have enough meat. It's all about how life is, what's up in the interviewee's life, etc. Codeproject is first and foremost a DEVELOPER SITE. If people want fun stuff and a lot of chatter, there are other places to do it. Don't get me wrong, I am just getting concerned at the way things are going. In the meantime, I guess Codeproject's rival web site, CodeGuru, has surpassed Codeproject in terms of quality. It looked like at one time Codeproject was providing increasingly quality content, and I am sure everyone will agree. But in a relatively short time, CodeGuru has become a major player again, with high quality stuff-they don't have all this gossip and blah blah in their site; they simply are a hard core Developer site. I know I am going to attract some flak for this, but please, this is simply my opinion-I am wondering if anyone else feels the same way I do.... Thanks and have a nice day
I don't know if you noticed, but much of the stuff submitted here is submitted by *the developers*. Not much code has been posted lately, but maybe that's because nobody's solved a nasty problem lately that they could/would share with the rest of us. Personally I don't hink CodeGuru is any better or worse than CodeProject..
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I don't know if you noticed, but much of the stuff submitted here is submitted by *the developers*. Not much code has been posted lately, but maybe that's because nobody's solved a nasty problem lately that they could/would share with the rest of us. Personally I don't hink CodeGuru is any better or worse than CodeProject..
Tomorrow and friday are usually my 'Oh my God my in-tray is full!' day when I try and post stuff that I've let go while I busily keep the site going. So once I post some back-logged articles tomorrow can we have a big thread about how you guys kicking my butt all over the place has made me sit up and do some work for once? ;P
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I don't know if you noticed, but much of the stuff submitted here is submitted by *the developers*. Not much code has been posted lately, but maybe that's because nobody's solved a nasty problem lately that they could/would share with the rest of us. Personally I don't hink CodeGuru is any better or worse than CodeProject..
I have to strongly disagree with the post that started this thread but also want to thank the writer for choosing a subject that would get so many people involved. How limiting to want a site with little variety. I suppose it would work if you wanted to limit the number of people who visit the site or perhaps if people weren't so diverse. I for one, appreciate the fluff. I am currently in school learning web design and the fluff makes this site less intimidating for me. The site is about developers helping developers, don't assume that means code only.
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Tomorrow and friday are usually my 'Oh my God my in-tray is full!' day when I try and post stuff that I've let go while I busily keep the site going. So once I post some back-logged articles tomorrow can we have a big thread about how you guys kicking my butt all over the place has made me sit up and do some work for once? ;P
Who's next? :P j/k I don't think most people realize the work and time involved in keeping CodeProject up and running smoothly all while trying to appease everyone, update articles, post news, add features, clean up existing stuff, form partnerships, get advertising revenue, and review article content, which includes fixing all the nasty spelling errors and sloppy grammer. Oh and also tryiing to have some free time to actually have a life. In my opinion the whole "Damned if you do, damned if you don't" applies to this whole thread, and that is MHO. And I do have a name and proud of it, -Erik
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Is it only me or is everyone as well feeling that Codeproject is increasingly getting political and simply is a accumulating more "fluff" that's not really hot? Lots of interviews, discussions, information on trips to Redmond....etc...these are fine, but I think Codeproject's overdoing it. Not good for Codeproject's health. Even the BIG interviews (apparently with Matt Pietrek, Chris Sells) don't have enough meat. It's all about how life is, what's up in the interviewee's life, etc. Codeproject is first and foremost a DEVELOPER SITE. If people want fun stuff and a lot of chatter, there are other places to do it. Don't get me wrong, I am just getting concerned at the way things are going. In the meantime, I guess Codeproject's rival web site, CodeGuru, has surpassed Codeproject in terms of quality. It looked like at one time Codeproject was providing increasingly quality content, and I am sure everyone will agree. But in a relatively short time, CodeGuru has become a major player again, with high quality stuff-they don't have all this gossip and blah blah in their site; they simply are a hard core Developer site. I know I am going to attract some flak for this, but please, this is simply my opinion-I am wondering if anyone else feels the same way I do.... Thanks and have a nice day
Greetings All, The short of it is, its Chris' site, and he can do whatever he feels like with it. If there's something on here you don't want to read, then don't read it. Its kind of like that joke about the patient and the doctor. "Hey Doc, my wrist hurts when I move it." Doc says, "Then don't move your wrist." I personally find some of the interviews and articles interesting. But if I'm not in the mood to read them or I caught it somewhere else, then I don't view them. Seems simple to me. Speaking from a beginning MFC wannabe's point of view, I find this site invaluable. I sometimes have it running along w/ Developer Studio. I think Chris' intentions of bringing a community of developers together like this is REAL beneficial for a lot of people, --especially those that fall in the beginner's category like myself. I only hope that someday I can get well versed enough to contribute a lot back. Let me take this opportunity to thank every single person who has posted something. And thanks Chris for all your dedication and hard work. Keep it up, man! Matt
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There must be over 750 articles here, all for free, and you guys complain that this site isn't good enough and it should be better, there should be more. How about saying Thank You instead of bitching and being ungrateful for something that you don't have to read and you don't have to pay for
I agree with 'Thank You'. Having this extra 'fluff' doesn't effect the technical-articles at all. It simply adds to the site and makes it more informative. In my opinion, there is not enougth interviews, etc.
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Paul Wescott IP issues are not neatly packaged. If I use a snippet from a magazine (or from CP) I'm not likely to run into IP ownership issues. But even then, I'm sure the magazine does address the ownership issue with the author. I highly doubt that DDJ would publish an article of my code, without an agreement whereby I warranted that it was in fact my own code. But notice I also referred to a "component." First, you don't see code for an entire component in a magazine. Second, we are free to use and resuse components that we buy and license from the code owner. Surely you're not suggesting that a professional developer would take code from an anonymous poster (like you find on CP and CG) and use it in a commercial application, without knowing whether the anonymous poster in fact owned the code they posted? I don't think so. I'd never dreaming of using a "free" component in an application unless someone had given me the legal protection I need through an explicit warranty of legal ownership. The risks would be too high! Gordy
Gordy wrote: Surely you're not suggesting that a professional developer would take code from an anonymous poster (like you find on CP and CG) and use it in a commercial application, without knowing whether the anonymous poster in fact owned the code they posted? Which is precisely why I ask any developer's whose code I use for any purpose to sign a rights of ownership form before I release any code or a product containing free code. Cheers, Chris Maunder
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Gordy wrote: Surely you're not suggesting that a professional developer would take code from an anonymous poster (like you find on CP and CG) and use it in a commercial application, without knowing whether the anonymous poster in fact owned the code they posted? Which is precisely why I ask any developer's whose code I use for any purpose to sign a rights of ownership form before I release any code or a product containing free code. Cheers, Chris Maunder
Chris We are singing from the same song sheet on this one; I agree 100%. The commandment is simple: "Verily I say onto you, thou shalt not use any code in your application, until thou has nigh on been assured that though knowest who the rightful owner of that code beath, unless thou wishest to be wailing and knashing your teeth in a court of law." Gordy
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Chris We are singing from the same song sheet on this one; I agree 100%. The commandment is simple: "Verily I say onto you, thou shalt not use any code in your application, until thou has nigh on been assured that though knowest who the rightful owner of that code beath, unless thou wishest to be wailing and knashing your teeth in a court of law." Gordy
Gordy wrote: "Verily I say onto you, thou shalt not use any code in your application, until thou has nigh on been assured that though knowest who the rightful owner of that code beath, unless thou wishest to be wailing and knashing your teeth in a court of law." ------ Extract from "The Programmers Bible", Chapter 16, verse 5
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I have to strongly disagree with the post that started this thread but also want to thank the writer for choosing a subject that would get so many people involved. How limiting to want a site with little variety. I suppose it would work if you wanted to limit the number of people who visit the site or perhaps if people weren't so diverse. I for one, appreciate the fluff. I am currently in school learning web design and the fluff makes this site less intimidating for me. The site is about developers helping developers, don't assume that means code only.
The site is about developers helping developers, don't assume that means code only. An excellent point that I completely agree with. This site is not just about articles. As well as the articles, the news, interviews (in my opinion personal interviews are jsut as important as technology ones, as they show the big league developers have some things in common with us), there are the message forums. I know that if I am having a hard time achieving something, I can come here and post my question, and by tomorrow morning I will have the answer. Not even Microsoft offers that kind of repsose :). In short, don't change this site. Not one little bit. Sure you can update the layout a bit and fix problems with the forums, etc, but what you have created here is not just a resource site, but a help site, and in many ways a general information site.
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Sorry for the delay in replying to this - I've got the flu and feel like crap at the moment. CodeProject is a site for developers like you and me. It's not an online version of MSDN. I started this site simply because I wanted a place where developers could share their experiences in learning and help others who were just beginning. If you want the best technical information on windows development then there are thousands of books out there that are far more convenient to read and learn from than CodeProject. If you want to feel part of a real community, meet others, have your code praised / criticised / improved then CodeProject is the place to be. I am trying to build a place that is fun to hang out at, and a place where there is no "them and us" mentality. I want to try and bring "industry" (ie Microsoft, DevelopMentor etc) and "developers" (us!) together - since in the end the two are one and the same. The site is you. It's what you guys make it. Everything is open, everything can be commented on, and everyone can have their say. If you want more techinical articles then send stuff in and this will encourage others. If there are bits you don't like then don't read them - or send in suggestions how they can be improved. This is pretty much a one-man show so some suggestions will take a while to be implemented - but I am working my ass off for you guys to give you something you enjoy. Help me to help you. cheers, Chris Maunde
Chris - As a person who is relativley new to the Windows programming scene I have found CodeProject to be extremely interesting. Even more than being able to find source code and help on the forum, reading about what people who are doing what I want to be doing is very interesting, and is probably the reason that I check this site more often than any other site such as CodeGuru. The articles on your visit to Microsoft was of particular interest. For someone like me who is still working on their own notepad or similar small projects, software development on a large scale such as that has always been somewhat of a mystery, and to be able to read about it is enlightening. While some anonymous people seem to think that interviews and stories along these lines make CodeProject soft, I tend to think that it makes CodeProject a more interesting place to visit. -Tyler
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Well, maybe I'm a little biased, but I love what Chris has put together here. I'm also very happy that CodeGuru have picked up their socks, but I'll bet you that would never have happened if CodeProject didn't show up. :) Overall, I look at CodeProject as the VC++ community, not just a code repository. I like to cruise in a couple of times a day and see what's happening in the lounge, and I actually have started using the little news window at the bottom of the homepage too. Despite the fact that I know most of the people who've been interviewed very well, I still love to read them. I think most people are missing the point of the Interviews, which bring the big-wigs of the industry front and center, and let you, the CP views set the agenda. I think Chris' approach with this is excellent, and I also think we're not using the opportunity. Matt, the Win32 GOD shows up, and only a handful of people ask questions. Chris, the ATL/Scripting GOD shows up, and the only questions that get asked are personal. The concerned developer who launched this thread complained about a lack of technical relevance, but he we were the ones asking the questions! Did the concerned developer post any technical ATL questions? If we want this to be better, then as Chris says, we have to make it better. I also really enjoyed Chris' synopsis of the Redmond trip. I think it's very likely that the 99% of people who come here are quite keen on finding out more about the Microsoft life. I was on the trip with Chris and even I couldn't wait to see what he was going to put in the next installment. I think the homepage needs a little more focus than it currently has, and like everyone else I'd like to see more articles contributed. So, let's as a community scratch up some code samples and make some postings. Chris has even made it so you can post articles immediately through the submission wizard so you don't have to wait forever to see your work up!
Re the interview questions: I had not seen anything especially technical being asked before in the interview questions. This led me to believe that the interviews were not _supposed_ to be that technical. Is this an incorrect assumption? Chris, can you comment on this or perhaps give us some guidelines on what are appropriate questions? Chris, I think you are doing a super job. I drop by CodeGuru, but this is where I spend my time. This is exactly because of this site's particular style and content. Best regards, Brandon
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Re the interview questions: I had not seen anything especially technical being asked before in the interview questions. This led me to believe that the interviews were not _supposed_ to be that technical. Is this an incorrect assumption? Chris, can you comment on this or perhaps give us some guidelines on what are appropriate questions? Chris, I think you are doing a super job. I drop by CodeGuru, but this is where I spend my time. This is exactly because of this site's particular style and content. Best regards, Brandon
The interviews are free-for-alls. They are a chance to ask the big names in the industry _anything_ you've ever wanted to ask them. Want someone like Chris Sells to comment on a particularly esoteric point about ATL then please ask! Want to ask Matt his favourite hockey team? Or maybe you want to get into a conversation with John Robbins on deterministic freedom and the paradoxes in time travel - whatever! It's merely a chance for you guys to get a little closer to the guys we all here about but never see, and also a chance for these guys to talk about themselves, their work, their thoughts on what's happening in the industry. The interviews are what you make them. I think it's crazy for you guys not to take advantage of the opportunity to speak to these guys. cheers, Chris Maunder
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There must be over 750 articles here, all for free, and you guys complain that this site isn't good enough and it should be better, there should be more. How about saying Thank You instead of bitching and being ungrateful for something that you don't have to read and you don't have to pay for
Better than that, how about posting some articles yourselves?!? You're so quick to criticize that there is too much fluff. If you don't like the fluff, write a killer article and post it. This is a site that is driven by its members/readers. That's the reason why this site is so great. It's the reason why the content is so fresh. It's the reason why the content is so RELAVANT. If they go through a slow period, it's totally understandable (especially during the holidays when us coders are supposed to be at home spending time with their families). ;-) If CodeProject paid for writers to puke out articles once a month it would suck just like all the other sites out there. And in regards to CodeGuru, I don't think that it's superior to CodeProject. I think they are paying for regurgitated advertising designed to entice us to buy the authors book. Not much use to me. CodeProject Rocks! And I thank Chris Maunder for putting as much effort as he has into it. -Mike Stevenson Owner, Liquid Mirror Software CoderX@liquidmirror.com