A New Kind of Fail?
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You're assuming that usage of objects implies they will have a state. That may not be always true in practice. :laugh:
It is a crappy thing, but it's life -^ Carlo Pallini
No, they may even be functions themselves. :)
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Holy cow, that's insane - I'm looking at: http://www.jetbrains.com/mps/docs/tutorial.html[^] Gag. That's a serious, serious case of Second System Syndrome!
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So in functional languages (I have only a very basic understanding of Lisp) if you have objects, you are not allowed to modify them at all? That seems silly to make as a unilateral rule. But what the hell do I know, I just program for a living.
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Only in pure functional languages do you have complete immutability. No state, just what you pass around as parameters. Tail call optimisation means that a recursive call is really a loop, so a recursive call with modified parameters is equivalent to looping with modified state. Big gains w.r.t concurrency - no state means no shared state! The compiler can do more precise reasoning about your code. I tend to program a lot in a functional style in C++ - replacing an object can often be a lot more reliable than updating state.
Java, Basic, who cares - it's all a bunch of tree-hugging hippy cr*p
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Holy cow, that's insane - I'm looking at: http://www.jetbrains.com/mps/docs/tutorial.html[^] Gag. That's a serious, serious case of Second System Syndrome!
¡El diablo está en mis pantalones! ¡Mire, mire! SELECT * FROM User WHERE Clue > 0 0 rows returned Save an Orange - Use the VCF! Personal 3D projects Just Say No to Web 2 Point Blow
Holy Shit! I think I would rather be water boarded than be forced to use anything like that.
- S 50 cups of coffee and you know it's on! Code, follow, or get out of the way.
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Who names their language Noop[^]? No-op, No Operation, i.e. nothing's gonna happen here. Why oh why would you name a computing language this, and then expect people to rush over to it? Are web "developers" truly so clueless that they are unaware of what "noop" means? I go to the project's web site and of their two "blogs" that they list, the first link just collapses in an error! In their list of "features" they list that they are all for "Immutability" - why? You can only change something once? What the hell is up with that? And no implementation subclassing? Have I missed something here? Is there something I'm being blind to?
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What's in a name?
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What's in a name?
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I had a flash of Hannah Montana fans as I read that. :~
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It's a completely different programming paradigm. You simply don't do
foo.count = 10;there. And no, you don't have to copy ALL state (references to other objects). Because objects never change once created, it's perfectly safe to reuse the existing objects. The reason whystringin C# is so easy to use is because it does precisely this. Immutable types are generally easier to work with. And there are efficient implementations for most data structures. There's no need to create a full copy of a collection just to remove some element in it; instead the collection is interally arrange as some sort of tree and will share subtrees that didn't change. Of course, for some purposes you need mutation. How those cases are handled differs from language to language. In "pure" functional languages, you might use something like the Haskell "State" monad to solve this. In other languages (like F#), it's perfectly possible to modify existing objects just as in C# (but of course you lose all benefits of immutability as soon as you do so).Daniel Grunwald wrote:
instead the collection is interally arrange as some sort of tree and will share subtrees that didn't change
Actually, my StringBuilderPlus makes use of this technique. It's very effective for "changing" a portion of a very large immutable structure.
Visual Studio is an excellent GUIIDE.
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You shouldn't really have objects. That implies state. :laugh:
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Immutability does not mean "no state at all". It does mean that if you do have state, once it's created, it will never change. If the state does not change it can be shared between threads safely. --- Adar Wesley
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Who names their language Noop[^]? No-op, No Operation, i.e. nothing's gonna happen here. Why oh why would you name a computing language this, and then expect people to rush over to it? Are web "developers" truly so clueless that they are unaware of what "noop" means? I go to the project's web site and of their two "blogs" that they list, the first link just collapses in an error! In their list of "features" they list that they are all for "Immutability" - why? You can only change something once? What the hell is up with that? And no implementation subclassing? Have I missed something here? Is there something I'm being blind to?
¡El diablo está en mis pantalones! ¡Mire, mire! SELECT * FROM User WHERE Clue > 0 0 rows returned Save an Orange - Use the VCF! Personal 3D projects Just Say No to Web 2 Point Blow
I agree on the name. I'm also interested in seeing whether they come up with something better than the C-style syntax which we should have dumped years ago.
Kevin
