Looking for suggestions for dealing with stupid people
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Walk away. There are always smarter clients that are much better to work for. Dumb clients should pay double rate at least.
Agreed! Sometimes they don't even know what they really want in the first place! :doh: ------------- Vent, Complain, Share, Whatever at www.phuckthis.net
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Just curious how stupid people are dealt with the world over. I'm not talking just ordinary stupid, I mean really dense. I explained something to this person in at least 5 different ways, maybe up to 10. I used examples, stories, sport analogies (although I'm not an avid follower of sports so this could have been questionable), a dictionary, a pie chart, a piece of pie, some old GI Joe figures with the kung-fu grip, a chia pet, and threw in the kitchen sink for good measure. I talked until I was blue in the face, then red, then plaid. They could not comprehend it. So I gave up and thought experience would be a better teacher. When it didn't work like I told them it wouldn't and they had the problems that I told them they would, they still didn't get it. I tried explaining again, but I still don't think they got it. Am I done or should I continue beating my head against a wall? It's almost numb anyway. Maybe I should start beating their head against the wall?
Brad Deja Moo - When you feel like you've heard the same bull before.
I've found that there are very few genuinely stupid people; it's just that not everyone is interested in the same things. I'd estimate that more than 70% of people in general would never "be able" to learn the finer, really deep-down details of linguistics, because of pure lack of interest -- if you have no interest whatsoever in something, the details cannot soak in, and even the simplest things are forgotten within seconds. That figure probably rises to the high 90s, when considering only developers and the like, because the average developer is interested in finding only the logic underlying the language -- but there ain't hardly none, so they end up focusing on what little logic there is, and completely misunderstanding everything else. From my perspective, it would be very easy to say that those people are stupid, because they cannot understand things that to me are glaringly obvious. So, if you find that someone is "incapable" of understanding how a computer program works, bear in mind that, to most people, computers are nothing more than tools -- very minor tools, in many cases -- that are supposed to take away some of their drudge work, freeing them to do things that are much more important. Computers are not spectacular, wonderful, fascinating things that make their lives worth living. And if you expect everyone to feel the same way you do about computers and the things that computers do, then it ain't them what's stupid.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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"Never argue with a fool, onlookers may not be able to tell the difference". -- Unknown :-D
If the Lord God Almighty had consulted me before embarking upon the Creation, I would have recommended something simpler. -- Alfonso the Wise, 13th Century King of Castile.
This is going on my arrogant assumptions. You may have a superb reason why I'm completely wrong. -- Iain Clarke
[My articles]Never argue with imbeciles. They will bring you down to their level and beat you with experince.
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Just curious how stupid people are dealt with the world over. I'm not talking just ordinary stupid, I mean really dense. I explained something to this person in at least 5 different ways, maybe up to 10. I used examples, stories, sport analogies (although I'm not an avid follower of sports so this could have been questionable), a dictionary, a pie chart, a piece of pie, some old GI Joe figures with the kung-fu grip, a chia pet, and threw in the kitchen sink for good measure. I talked until I was blue in the face, then red, then plaid. They could not comprehend it. So I gave up and thought experience would be a better teacher. When it didn't work like I told them it wouldn't and they had the problems that I told them they would, they still didn't get it. I tried explaining again, but I still don't think they got it. Am I done or should I continue beating my head against a wall? It's almost numb anyway. Maybe I should start beating their head against the wall?
Brad Deja Moo - When you feel like you've heard the same bull before.
and we wonder why IT people have a terrible reputation in business! Do you think you could be one of those people that other people don't listen too and don't want to spend time with. Perhaps you have an inferiority complex that you outwardly express by attempting to be superior to other people. Why not ask them why they arent getting it - you might have to wake them up first though.
Steve0 You can't polish a turd.
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Just curious how stupid people are dealt with the world over. I'm not talking just ordinary stupid, I mean really dense. I explained something to this person in at least 5 different ways, maybe up to 10. I used examples, stories, sport analogies (although I'm not an avid follower of sports so this could have been questionable), a dictionary, a pie chart, a piece of pie, some old GI Joe figures with the kung-fu grip, a chia pet, and threw in the kitchen sink for good measure. I talked until I was blue in the face, then red, then plaid. They could not comprehend it. So I gave up and thought experience would be a better teacher. When it didn't work like I told them it wouldn't and they had the problems that I told them they would, they still didn't get it. I tried explaining again, but I still don't think they got it. Am I done or should I continue beating my head against a wall? It's almost numb anyway. Maybe I should start beating their head against the wall?
Brad Deja Moo - When you feel like you've heard the same bull before.
BRShroyer wrote:
I explained something
The Google Query (( NOVA HIPPOCAMPUS MIRROR )) finds the Nova Science Now episode Mysteries of Memory. In brief, Henry Gustav Molaison had his Hippocampus removed to end his seizures - mission accomplished, but he became incapable of forming the kind of long-term-memory where you consciously respond to questions. HOWEVER when taught to follow star-outlines with a pencil in-a-mirror, he DID learn. Conclusion - there ARE two very different systems in there. You repeat the word "explain", perhaps neglecting to mention that you tried to develop "hands on" methods ? All of those chimpanzee episodes always mention that copying-other-people via the "mirror neurons" is much easier than working things out by theory. For an off-the-wall but cheap second opinion, the factual book "On Call in Hell" by Dr. Richard Jadick, can today be had used from Amazon Marketplace for 1-cent. This includes an explanation by an Iraqi commander as to why his troops refuse to use toilet paper, preferring to clean their hands by smearing them over the walls of the US facilities. Conclusion - you learn your behavior by monkey-see-monkey-do, abstract thinking is mostly rationalization of these habits, to deduce from first principles is so tough, you think you're doing it but mainly it's just rationalizing your habits.
pg--az
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Just curious how stupid people are dealt with the world over. I'm not talking just ordinary stupid, I mean really dense. I explained something to this person in at least 5 different ways, maybe up to 10. I used examples, stories, sport analogies (although I'm not an avid follower of sports so this could have been questionable), a dictionary, a pie chart, a piece of pie, some old GI Joe figures with the kung-fu grip, a chia pet, and threw in the kitchen sink for good measure. I talked until I was blue in the face, then red, then plaid. They could not comprehend it. So I gave up and thought experience would be a better teacher. When it didn't work like I told them it wouldn't and they had the problems that I told them they would, they still didn't get it. I tried explaining again, but I still don't think they got it. Am I done or should I continue beating my head against a wall? It's almost numb anyway. Maybe I should start beating their head against the wall?
Brad Deja Moo - When you feel like you've heard the same bull before.
It's important to remember that some concepts and depths of understanding will forever be out of reach of some listeners. The explainer's task is to choose a level at which to describe something that matches the level of the listener. All of our basic dials were set at conception. Thus, none of us can take pride in our intelligence, nor should anyone feel shame for the lack thereof. It is simply a gift, to appreciate, develop, utilize and share. Eric
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Just curious how stupid people are dealt with the world over. I'm not talking just ordinary stupid, I mean really dense. I explained something to this person in at least 5 different ways, maybe up to 10. I used examples, stories, sport analogies (although I'm not an avid follower of sports so this could have been questionable), a dictionary, a pie chart, a piece of pie, some old GI Joe figures with the kung-fu grip, a chia pet, and threw in the kitchen sink for good measure. I talked until I was blue in the face, then red, then plaid. They could not comprehend it. So I gave up and thought experience would be a better teacher. When it didn't work like I told them it wouldn't and they had the problems that I told them they would, they still didn't get it. I tried explaining again, but I still don't think they got it. Am I done or should I continue beating my head against a wall? It's almost numb anyway. Maybe I should start beating their head against the wall?
Brad Deja Moo - When you feel like you've heard the same bull before.
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“Never try to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and it annoys the pig.” - Robert Heinlein
"Creating your own blog is about as easy as creating your own urine, and you're about as likely to find someone else interested in it." -- Lore Sjöberg
"If the pig fails to sing, make a BLT." - Gary Wheeler
Software Zen:
delete this; -
Have you tried having the dense one explain it to you? Or what little s/he understands about it. I'd be looking for the "point of failure." The point where s/he stops understanding the thing.
BDF People don't mind being mean; but they never want to be ridiculous. -- Moliere
This is a good idea. When I'm having problems understanding something, I often imagine myself explaining it to someone else. Helps me to get all the information organized in my head. If that fails in this case, then the last idea - beating their heads against the wall - admittedly has some appeal. :cool:
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Just curious how stupid people are dealt with the world over. I'm not talking just ordinary stupid, I mean really dense. I explained something to this person in at least 5 different ways, maybe up to 10. I used examples, stories, sport analogies (although I'm not an avid follower of sports so this could have been questionable), a dictionary, a pie chart, a piece of pie, some old GI Joe figures with the kung-fu grip, a chia pet, and threw in the kitchen sink for good measure. I talked until I was blue in the face, then red, then plaid. They could not comprehend it. So I gave up and thought experience would be a better teacher. When it didn't work like I told them it wouldn't and they had the problems that I told them they would, they still didn't get it. I tried explaining again, but I still don't think they got it. Am I done or should I continue beating my head against a wall? It's almost numb anyway. Maybe I should start beating their head against the wall?
Brad Deja Moo - When you feel like you've heard the same bull before.
Please note my first Tag-Line.
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein
"As far as we know, our computer has never had an undetected error." - Weisert"It's a sad state of affairs, indeed, when you start reading my tag lines for some sort of enlightenment. Sadder still, if that's where you need to find it." - Balboos HaGadol
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Start with a REALLY dumbed-down analogy... Like preschool level... Then when they finally realize they're being patronized and get annoyed, explain it to them in more reasonable terms. They'll pay close attention, so as not to justify the initial tactic.
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in? Developer, Author (Guardians of Xen)
Brings back a memory from many a decade ago. I was a Chemistry grad-student, and needing some extra money, I took on some tutoring. Well, one of my students was a woman in her 40's - having a lot of difficulty with 'freshman' chemistry at the local community college. At this time, she was having trouble understanding the difference between Elements and Compounds. My solution? I thought to explain to her that Elements are like the primary colors - and compounds are like all the rest. So - she blankly stared at me and asked me - "What's a primary color?". . . . which was the point at which I decided that it wouldn't be right for me to take any more of her money.
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein
"As far as we know, our computer has never had an undetected error." - Weisert"It's a sad state of affairs, indeed, when you start reading my tag lines for some sort of enlightenment. Sadder still, if that's where you need to find it." - Balboos HaGadol
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Just curious how stupid people are dealt with the world over. I'm not talking just ordinary stupid, I mean really dense. I explained something to this person in at least 5 different ways, maybe up to 10. I used examples, stories, sport analogies (although I'm not an avid follower of sports so this could have been questionable), a dictionary, a pie chart, a piece of pie, some old GI Joe figures with the kung-fu grip, a chia pet, and threw in the kitchen sink for good measure. I talked until I was blue in the face, then red, then plaid. They could not comprehend it. So I gave up and thought experience would be a better teacher. When it didn't work like I told them it wouldn't and they had the problems that I told them they would, they still didn't get it. I tried explaining again, but I still don't think they got it. Am I done or should I continue beating my head against a wall? It's almost numb anyway. Maybe I should start beating their head against the wall?
Brad Deja Moo - When you feel like you've heard the same bull before.
At some point in this process I'd ask myself how important is it to get the point across. If they want to know, show them a Google search box and tell them not to come back until they've figured it out themselves. If you are obsessing about getting the point across, save yourself an ulcer and stop trying. Maybe tell them you don't know the answer either. A [white] lie perhaps, but it ends your grief.
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Just curious how stupid people are dealt with the world over. I'm not talking just ordinary stupid, I mean really dense. I explained something to this person in at least 5 different ways, maybe up to 10. I used examples, stories, sport analogies (although I'm not an avid follower of sports so this could have been questionable), a dictionary, a pie chart, a piece of pie, some old GI Joe figures with the kung-fu grip, a chia pet, and threw in the kitchen sink for good measure. I talked until I was blue in the face, then red, then plaid. They could not comprehend it. So I gave up and thought experience would be a better teacher. When it didn't work like I told them it wouldn't and they had the problems that I told them they would, they still didn't get it. I tried explaining again, but I still don't think they got it. Am I done or should I continue beating my head against a wall? It's almost numb anyway. Maybe I should start beating their head against the wall?
Brad Deja Moo - When you feel like you've heard the same bull before.
I work in the IT department of a community college. Recently we had a student had difficulty logging into our computers. Numerous people tried to help him. Even several people from our department talked with him. The problem? Well, he would use the space bar to clear out the username of the previous person who logged on the computer. Then type his username. Well, appearantly, no one was able to get him to understand that ' hisusername' is not equal to 'hisusername' and he still does this and still think's there's a problem with our network. oh well
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"Never argue with a fool, onlookers may not be able to tell the difference". -- Unknown :-D
If the Lord God Almighty had consulted me before embarking upon the Creation, I would have recommended something simpler. -- Alfonso the Wise, 13th Century King of Castile.
This is going on my arrogant assumptions. You may have a superb reason why I'm completely wrong. -- Iain Clarke
[My articles]Anyways?? Wat were you asking him to explain??:confused: :-\
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I work in the IT department of a community college. Recently we had a student had difficulty logging into our computers. Numerous people tried to help him. Even several people from our department talked with him. The problem? Well, he would use the space bar to clear out the username of the previous person who logged on the computer. Then type his username. Well, appearantly, no one was able to get him to understand that ' hisusername' is not equal to 'hisusername' and he still does this and still think's there's a problem with our network. oh well
Guys from My Extreme experience I discovered that there is Only One way to deal with Stupids...... Dont deal with them (just give up):laugh: :laugh:
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Anyways?? Wat were you asking him to explain??:confused: :-\
Are you arguing with me? :laugh:
If the Lord God Almighty had consulted me before embarking upon the Creation, I would have recommended something simpler. -- Alfonso the Wise, 13th Century King of Castile.
This is going on my arrogant assumptions. You may have a superb reason why I'm completely wrong. -- Iain Clarke
[My articles] -
Are you arguing with me? :laugh:
If the Lord God Almighty had consulted me before embarking upon the Creation, I would have recommended something simpler. -- Alfonso the Wise, 13th Century King of Castile.
This is going on my arrogant assumptions. You may have a superb reason why I'm completely wrong. -- Iain Clarke
[My articles]Not Exactly :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: I was just trying to figure out wat he was asking him :) :-\
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I work in the IT department of a community college. Recently we had a student had difficulty logging into our computers. Numerous people tried to help him. Even several people from our department talked with him. The problem? Well, he would use the space bar to clear out the username of the previous person who logged on the computer. Then type his username. Well, appearantly, no one was able to get him to understand that ' hisusername' is not equal to 'hisusername' and he still does this and still think's there's a problem with our network. oh well
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Just curious how stupid people are dealt with the world over. I'm not talking just ordinary stupid, I mean really dense. I explained something to this person in at least 5 different ways, maybe up to 10. I used examples, stories, sport analogies (although I'm not an avid follower of sports so this could have been questionable), a dictionary, a pie chart, a piece of pie, some old GI Joe figures with the kung-fu grip, a chia pet, and threw in the kitchen sink for good measure. I talked until I was blue in the face, then red, then plaid. They could not comprehend it. So I gave up and thought experience would be a better teacher. When it didn't work like I told them it wouldn't and they had the problems that I told them they would, they still didn't get it. I tried explaining again, but I still don't think they got it. Am I done or should I continue beating my head against a wall? It's almost numb anyway. Maybe I should start beating their head against the wall?
Brad Deja Moo - When you feel like you've heard the same bull before.
well, I have the same problem...So I just bought "Arguing with Idiots: How to Stop Small Minds and Big Government" today at Costco. I think it may be the best $17 I've ever spent. The best way of dealing with idiots is to have facts to counter their claims. Then again, when things are "idiot proof", someone goes out and invents a new idiot. Stay true to the facts and question the idiot's point of view and rationale with (this is the hard part) speaking to them like they're an idiot. There's a good chance that the idiot may be right within their own experience and context. Dense? or non-technical? there's a big difference. Nonetheless, I feel your pain. The best advice I can give is to know NLP. (Neuro Linguistic Programming http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neuro-linguistic_programming[^]) It's sounds complicated by name, but using NLP is the best way to get your point across. If you're talking "visually" and someone is an auditory learner, you're at a loss from the start; however, if you're aware of the learner is auditory, you can shift yourself to teaching that way. Remember, about 57% of the population is visual, about 36% is visual, and the rest are kinesthetic. Here's a quick snippet from wikipedia: The basic assumption of NLP is that internal mental processes such as problem solving, memory, and language consist of visual, auditory, kinesthetic, (and possibly olfactory and gustatory)... Try NLP, I know I used it during my first interview back in the early '90's and help launch my technical career. Good luck!