"Agile is treating the symptoms, not the disease"
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(from the insider) Good post, thought it's less about Agile but the question What is this decades MS Access?[^] I.e. which environment makes simple apps simple for not-so-technical people? I've seen a lot of access bashing, but in the light of the article - which certainly rings a bell with me - it looks more like chefs complaining about microwaves.
Personally, I love the idea that Raymond spends his nights posting bad regexs to mailing lists under the pseudonym of Jane Smith. He'd be like a super hero, only more nerdy and less useful. [Trevel]
| FoldWithUs! | sighist | µLaunch - program launcher for server core and hyper-v server -
(from the insider) Good post, thought it's less about Agile but the question What is this decades MS Access?[^] I.e. which environment makes simple apps simple for not-so-technical people? I've seen a lot of access bashing, but in the light of the article - which certainly rings a bell with me - it looks more like chefs complaining about microwaves.
Personally, I love the idea that Raymond spends his nights posting bad regexs to mailing lists under the pseudonym of Jane Smith. He'd be like a super hero, only more nerdy and less useful. [Trevel]
| FoldWithUs! | sighist | µLaunch - program launcher for server core and hyper-v serverWell thank you very much!:mad: Because I was having problems with VS I decided to reinstall, so I put the DVD in the Microwave. Now It won't even fit in the drive and what's more my Microwave is broken. Kindly keep your advice to yourself!
Henry Minute Do not read medical books! You could die of a misprint. - Mark Twain Girl: (staring) "Why do you need an icy cucumber?" “I want to report a fraud. The government is lying to us all.”
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Well thank you very much!:mad: Because I was having problems with VS I decided to reinstall, so I put the DVD in the Microwave. Now It won't even fit in the drive and what's more my Microwave is broken. Kindly keep your advice to yourself!
Henry Minute Do not read medical books! You could die of a misprint. - Mark Twain Girl: (staring) "Why do you need an icy cucumber?" “I want to report a fraud. The government is lying to us all.”
Chefs using a microwave should expect to get burned ;P
Personally, I love the idea that Raymond spends his nights posting bad regexs to mailing lists under the pseudonym of Jane Smith. He'd be like a super hero, only more nerdy and less useful. [Trevel]
| FoldWithUs! | sighist | µLaunch - program launcher for server core and hyper-v server -
(from the insider) Good post, thought it's less about Agile but the question What is this decades MS Access?[^] I.e. which environment makes simple apps simple for not-so-technical people? I've seen a lot of access bashing, but in the light of the article - which certainly rings a bell with me - it looks more like chefs complaining about microwaves.
Personally, I love the idea that Raymond spends his nights posting bad regexs to mailing lists under the pseudonym of Jane Smith. He'd be like a super hero, only more nerdy and less useful. [Trevel]
| FoldWithUs! | sighist | µLaunch - program launcher for server core and hyper-v serverOf course. Anybody that buys into any methodology as treating the disease is doomed. Sadly, that means most everyone, especially managers. The disease, of course, is management, or more precisely, people. As to this: A lot of software written back in the 90's was written by 1 or 2 guys working for just a few months to slam something out and see if it was useful. What chances do those kinds of projects have today? What tools would you use to build them? The problem is the complexity of the tools we have available to us today preclude that kind of software development. That's a load of BS. I've done things from developing a little utility that pulls in weather forecasts from NOAA from a list of zip codes in Excel (for a chocolate shipper, to determine the ice needed to keep the chocolate cold) in 4 hours to developing a 3-tier declarative-based client-server application framework over a couple years. Doing software development doesn't require using complicated tools and doesn't require complicated solutions or complicated methodologies for doing the development. It merely requires intelligence. Something grossly lacking in most people. ;P Marc
I'm not overthinking the problem, I just felt like I needed a small, unimportant, uninteresting rant! - Martin Hart Turner
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(from the insider) Good post, thought it's less about Agile but the question What is this decades MS Access?[^] I.e. which environment makes simple apps simple for not-so-technical people? I've seen a lot of access bashing, but in the light of the article - which certainly rings a bell with me - it looks more like chefs complaining about microwaves.
Personally, I love the idea that Raymond spends his nights posting bad regexs to mailing lists under the pseudonym of Jane Smith. He'd be like a super hero, only more nerdy and less useful. [Trevel]
| FoldWithUs! | sighist | µLaunch - program launcher for server core and hyper-v serverAccess has it's place but that place is not delivering multi user applications. It is (used to be) designed a single user database solution, used as such it is brilliant, when a power user build a single user solution and decides to disseminate it to all the other users that is when it is the wrong tool for the job, I'm a dedicated Access basher and I include Excel in the firing line. I have spent a development career taking apart single user systems based on office. And don't think I am talking about SME companies, I have worked for some major multi nationals trying to make sense of solutions based on Office products. What a PITA. Sorry, I didn't read the article but I hate Access.
Never underestimate the power of human stupidity RAH
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Access has it's place but that place is not delivering multi user applications. It is (used to be) designed a single user database solution, used as such it is brilliant, when a power user build a single user solution and decides to disseminate it to all the other users that is when it is the wrong tool for the job, I'm a dedicated Access basher and I include Excel in the firing line. I have spent a development career taking apart single user systems based on office. And don't think I am talking about SME companies, I have worked for some major multi nationals trying to make sense of solutions based on Office products. What a PITA. Sorry, I didn't read the article but I hate Access.
Never underestimate the power of human stupidity RAH
Hi Mycroft, If you ever feel like writing an article for CP on what you think are appropriate and inappropriate depolyment/development scenarios for Office components in their current "incarnations," I think I am not the only one who would appreciate from it, and benefit from it (once upon a time I was paid a lot of money to develop a custom application around Excel, and, mirabile dictu, I had it running side-by-side on both Mac and PC ... but that was years, and years ago). best, Bill
"Many : not conversant with mathematical studies, imagine that because it [the Analytical Engine] is to give results in numerical notation, its processes must consequently be arithmetical, numerical, rather than algebraical and analytical. This is an error. The engine can arrange and combine numerical quantities as if they were letters or any other general symbols; and it fact it might bring out its results in algebraical notation, were provisions made accordingly." Ada, Countess Lovelace, 1844
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Hi Mycroft, If you ever feel like writing an article for CP on what you think are appropriate and inappropriate depolyment/development scenarios for Office components in their current "incarnations," I think I am not the only one who would appreciate from it, and benefit from it (once upon a time I was paid a lot of money to develop a custom application around Excel, and, mirabile dictu, I had it running side-by-side on both Mac and PC ... but that was years, and years ago). best, Bill
"Many : not conversant with mathematical studies, imagine that because it [the Analytical Engine] is to give results in numerical notation, its processes must consequently be arithmetical, numerical, rather than algebraical and analytical. This is an error. The engine can arrange and combine numerical quantities as if they were letters or any other general symbols; and it fact it might bring out its results in algebraical notation, were provisions made accordingly." Ada, Countess Lovelace, 1844
My experience with Office is years old, I have not even turned on Office 2007, we have standardised on 2003 and do not look to be moving. Besides my view is terribly biased, I have only seen the Office failures, I am not needed where the solution works. I am disturbed by Microsoft's move towards trying to deliver enterprise solutions, BI come to mind, heavily integrated with Office. We recently rejected the MS solution because the UI is Excel. I consider the inclusion of any Office product in an Enterprise data solution to be a negative factor.
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Of course. Anybody that buys into any methodology as treating the disease is doomed. Sadly, that means most everyone, especially managers. The disease, of course, is management, or more precisely, people. As to this: A lot of software written back in the 90's was written by 1 or 2 guys working for just a few months to slam something out and see if it was useful. What chances do those kinds of projects have today? What tools would you use to build them? The problem is the complexity of the tools we have available to us today preclude that kind of software development. That's a load of BS. I've done things from developing a little utility that pulls in weather forecasts from NOAA from a list of zip codes in Excel (for a chocolate shipper, to determine the ice needed to keep the chocolate cold) in 4 hours to developing a 3-tier declarative-based client-server application framework over a couple years. Doing software development doesn't require using complicated tools and doesn't require complicated solutions or complicated methodologies for doing the development. It merely requires intelligence. Something grossly lacking in most people. ;P Marc
I'm not overthinking the problem, I just felt like I needed a small, unimportant, uninteresting rant! - Martin Hart Turner
Marc, I agree with you that software developement does not require complicated tools and such, just intelligence. What I want to ask you about is if you can identify what is "Something grossly lacking in most people". A short list of things perhaps? The reason for my request is that I planning to write a paper on "Software Psychology" that talks about the various mindsets found amongst different types of developers and other people in IT (such as DBAs) and then try to extrapolate some useful insights (if possible) into how the various type learn, do their work, and can be effectively managed (if such as thing is possible). Since you are a very experienced and talented developer I suspect that you have some good insights. We can take this offline if you so desire. Anyone else have some good (not frivilous) insights here? (Ok, good humor IS appreciated!) :) Thanks. - Grant
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Chefs using a microwave should expect to get burned ;P
Personally, I love the idea that Raymond spends his nights posting bad regexs to mailing lists under the pseudonym of Jane Smith. He'd be like a super hero, only more nerdy and less useful. [Trevel]
| FoldWithUs! | sighist | µLaunch - program launcher for server core and hyper-v server -
:laugh: brilliant!
Personally, I love the idea that Raymond spends his nights posting bad regexs to mailing lists under the pseudonym of Jane Smith. He'd be like a super hero, only more nerdy and less useful. [Trevel]
| FoldWithUs! | sighist | µLaunch - program launcher for server core and hyper-v server -
Marc, I agree with you that software developement does not require complicated tools and such, just intelligence. What I want to ask you about is if you can identify what is "Something grossly lacking in most people". A short list of things perhaps? The reason for my request is that I planning to write a paper on "Software Psychology" that talks about the various mindsets found amongst different types of developers and other people in IT (such as DBAs) and then try to extrapolate some useful insights (if possible) into how the various type learn, do their work, and can be effectively managed (if such as thing is possible). Since you are a very experienced and talented developer I suspect that you have some good insights. We can take this offline if you so desire. Anyone else have some good (not frivilous) insights here? (Ok, good humor IS appreciated!) :) Thanks. - Grant
GrantAnderson wrote:
What I want to ask you about is if you can identify what is "Something grossly lacking in most people". A short list of things perhaps? The reason for my request is that I planning to write a paper on "Software Psychology"
Great question, and it sounds like a great paper! Sure, if you want to take this offline, email me directly. But for the moment, here's my short list: 1. Being able to express concepts, goals, plans clearly. Why? A lot of this is personal experience, I realized in my teens I could not clearly communicate what I wanted done, how to do it, and what the steps were to achieve the goal. I put a lot of effort (with the help of my boss, who hammered me on this) to using clear, concise language, correct terminology, and to really sit down and think out the plan from concept to implementation. Regardless of today's modern methodologies, which often eschew thorough planning in favor of ad-hoc, refactor as you go, implementation, I find that planning is essential to success, regardless of how large or small the project. 2. The psychology of refactoring is wrong. Why? The idea that you can refactor the code later is faulty. Refactoring is fine when dealing with algorithm efficiency (as an example), but code incorporates really two concepts: the implementation that solves a particular problem, and it also captures the architecture of the whole application. Too often, the "refactor later" psychology (or psychosis, IMO), includes refactoring the architecture. A simple example is leaving off using interfaces in the initial implementation. The "do the bare minimum" approach adversely affects the architecture of the app and, later on, can result in the failure of the project, or at least dooming it to a poorly thought out architecture, because no thought actually went into the architecture. My interface example is trivial--architecture is significantly deeper than just interfaces. 3. Leaving testing to "later". Everyone talks about TDD, unit tests, test plans, etc., but time and time again, I see management make the decision that there isn't time or budget to do testing, without any metrics to justify either position. And furthermore, there is the developer psychology that unit tests, formal test plans, etc., are a waste of time, especially when (as I've recently experienced) their performance (affecting bonuses, perception of throughput, etc) is measured not by code stability but by how much functionality