WMG's latest crime against humanity
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We aren't at odds on this. All my music is from open source (yes it exists), free (thanks Trent), or public domain sources. I haven't bought a modern music CD in ages and if I have gotten any music outside those areas it was from iTunes. I paid for it. I have very rarely done that and usually try to get a way to get it from the artist in a manner that maximizes their profit. What I don't like is people supporting a system designed to screw over artists just because some business suit decided early on that the hippies were an easy mark and using them they could get rich. Heck, I won't even buy rock band Metallica because they are just shills for the industry at this point and their music has sucked roten eggs for almost 20 years.
Agreed... But like all arguments, there are two sides. The record companies ARE providing a service... They provide the financial investment to get studio time. They do the marketing and promotion... It's a significant cost. That said, I do agree that the deal artists are getting nowadays isn't fair... They just don't have much of a choice. I'll use my own situation as an example, as there's a close parallel in the world of written works... When you write a book, you basically have three options: 1) Traditional publisher: Same thing as an RIAA company. You submit your work to them, and have a <1% chance of being accepted. You sign EVERYTHING to them, they gain complete control. You get a miniscule royalty, but since you're backed by one of the big guys, you'll be on all the shelves in all the retail chains (B&N, Borders, etc). If you fill the right demographic, and they really like you, they'll pay extra to get you premium placement. 2) Vanity Press: Kind of like being an independent musician. You lay out all of the money for the print run (Which can be substantial - Talking $10k+). You do your own marketing and sales. You get 100% of the profits after printing costs, but you're totally on your own. Bookstores won't carry it unless you're already famous, so you have to find your own sales channel. 3) Self-Publish/POD: Print-on-demand is the middle-of-the-road solution. You sign up with one of the smaller publishers. You pay to start the process (Much less than in #2), but they handle sales and fulfillment. They take a cut, but you still get a decent royalty, and can get listed on the major online booksellers. You usually won't get shelf space in the brick-and-mortar stores, so you're basically stuck with online sales unless you go out and sell it in person. So you see, there are some major advantages to signing your soul over to one of the big publishers/studios. Me, I went with option #3, which is sort of like signing with an independent label, but less restrictive. The irony, of course, is that the very existence of #1 is what makes #2 and #3 so much more difficult (They're hogging all of the shelf space)... As long as they exist, they're really the only way to make it to the big leagues. I think I made a point in there somewhere... I started thinking about six different things at once, all non-related, so wasn't paying attention for the second half of this post...
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark.
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Ian Shlasko wrote:
When a band is on tour, they're not working a 9-to-5.
Wait a minute, you meant that as a bad thing, right? :-D
Christopher Duncan www.PracticalUSA.com Author of The Career Programmer and Unite the Tribes Copywriting Services
Heheh... Ok... They're not GETTING PAID to work 9-to-5 :) Man, I need to retire.
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in? Developer, Author (Guardians of Xen)
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Heheh... Ok... They're not GETTING PAID to work 9-to-5 :) Man, I need to retire.
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in? Developer, Author (Guardians of Xen)
Yeah, I'm with you. And the thought of going back on the road has occured to me more than once the past few years... :-D
Christopher Duncan www.PracticalUSA.com Author of The Career Programmer and Unite the Tribes Copywriting Services
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Yeah, I'm with you. And the thought of going back on the road has occured to me more than once the past few years... :-D
Christopher Duncan www.PracticalUSA.com Author of The Career Programmer and Unite the Tribes Copywriting Services
I don't want to go on the road... I just want the Barnes & Nobles AROUND THE CORNER from my apartment to actually stock my book in-store. So I need to become famous. Which means I need to write more... I'm 180+ pages into the sequel to Guardians of Xen... But can't write more than a couple pages a day when I'm burned out from 9 hours at the office.
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in? Developer, Author (Guardians of Xen)
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Rama Krishna Vavilala wrote:
That's just one of the business model around free called "freemium". There are several such business models around free.
Yeah, and I've spent the past year on some web dev projects trying to exploit them. I gotta say, I have a lot of respect for those who can make a living that way, because it's a much, much harder path than simply seling a product or service outright. Only a tiny, tiny percentage of commercial web sites out there are making money, and that's not the same percentage as the number of web devs who would like that to be their reality.
Rama Krishna Vavilala wrote:
Sure, that's might be a classic definition. But in this Internet world you have to think slightly out of the box.
Sorry, Rama, but you're waaaay too smart for me to let you get away with something this lame. :) Those who don't make more money than they spend can't pay the bills. Profit is profit, on the Internet or anywhere else. Nice try, though. :-D
Christopher Duncan www.PracticalUSA.com Author of The Career Programmer and Unite the Tribes Copywriting Services
Christopher Duncan wrote:
who don't make more money than they spend can't pay the bills
I am not saying that you don't make money. All I am saying is that properly know where you are making money and what exactly are you trying to sell. I gave away my music on MySpace for free (I encounter a loss because obviously I can not make up for the costs). But because people listened to my music and liked, they come to my concert in large numbers. So even though, I don't make any money with giving away the music for free, I more than recovered my money from concert. Now if the concert did not make any money than I agree I will be at a net loss.
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I don't want to go on the road... I just want the Barnes & Nobles AROUND THE CORNER from my apartment to actually stock my book in-store. So I need to become famous. Which means I need to write more... I'm 180+ pages into the sequel to Guardians of Xen... But can't write more than a couple pages a day when I'm burned out from 9 hours at the office.
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in? Developer, Author (Guardians of Xen)
Yeah, brick and mortar presence is the holy grail, to be sure. I got some B&N love with Career Programmer, but not so much with Tribes. Of course, becoming famous is more an aspect of PR than of writing. More time writing is what you get to do after you're famous. :-D
Christopher Duncan www.PracticalUSA.com Author of The Career Programmer and Unite the Tribes Copywriting Services
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Christopher Duncan wrote:
who don't make more money than they spend can't pay the bills
I am not saying that you don't make money. All I am saying is that properly know where you are making money and what exactly are you trying to sell. I gave away my music on MySpace for free (I encounter a loss because obviously I can not make up for the costs). But because people listened to my music and liked, they come to my concert in large numbers. So even though, I don't make any money with giving away the music for free, I more than recovered my money from concert. Now if the concert did not make any money than I agree I will be at a net loss.
I agree completely, this is a good example of using what's called a "loss leader" in the retail world in order to generate more substantial sales. Of course, I don't know if this is a hypothetical example or you really did spend time playing as a recording artist playing concerts. You do have to factor into the mix the cost of making those recordings that you give away on MySpace. It's not at all unusual for studio and production costs to hit hundreds of thousands of dollars to produce a CD, so you'd have to cover that nut before you're in the black. So, just an example, or are you actually part of the brotherhood? :-D
Christopher Duncan www.PracticalUSA.com Author of The Career Programmer and Unite the Tribes Copywriting Services
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I agree completely, this is a good example of using what's called a "loss leader" in the retail world in order to generate more substantial sales. Of course, I don't know if this is a hypothetical example or you really did spend time playing as a recording artist playing concerts. You do have to factor into the mix the cost of making those recordings that you give away on MySpace. It's not at all unusual for studio and production costs to hit hundreds of thousands of dollars to produce a CD, so you'd have to cover that nut before you're in the black. So, just an example, or are you actually part of the brotherhood? :-D
Christopher Duncan www.PracticalUSA.com Author of The Career Programmer and Unite the Tribes Copywriting Services
Christopher Duncan wrote:
just an example
No, I am just someone who is trying to investigate business models:).
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Christopher Duncan wrote:
just an example
No, I am just someone who is trying to investigate business models:).
Personally, I think you're a guy trying to instigate. :-D Dang! And here I was hoping I could score some backstage passes... By the way, if you ever do get this business model stuff worked out, I know what your next bestselling book is!
Christopher Duncan www.PracticalUSA.com Author of The Career Programmer and Unite the Tribes Copywriting Services
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Yeah, brick and mortar presence is the holy grail, to be sure. I got some B&N love with Career Programmer, but not so much with Tribes. Of course, becoming famous is more an aspect of PR than of writing. More time writing is what you get to do after you're famous. :-D
Christopher Duncan www.PracticalUSA.com Author of The Career Programmer and Unite the Tribes Copywriting Services
Well, I'm writing a trilogy (Shh!)... So I figure once I'm ready to publish the second book, I'll start the marketing machine (Which, in essence, is just me)... Maybe I'll have better luck when I have a proven track record.
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in? Developer, Author (Guardians of Xen)
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Well, I'm writing a trilogy (Shh!)... So I figure once I'm ready to publish the second book, I'll start the marketing machine (Which, in essence, is just me)... Maybe I'll have better luck when I have a proven track record.
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in? Developer, Author (Guardians of Xen)
You live in the center of the universe, so I'm thinking PR opportunities abound for you. While I'm not sure how much of my experience in the non fiction world will translate effectively to fiction, if you want to shoot me an email from the CP email link, we can kick some things back & forth offline. Always happy to help another creative creature if I'm able.
Christopher Duncan www.PracticalUSA.com Author of The Career Programmer and Unite the Tribes Copywriting Services
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You live in the center of the universe, so I'm thinking PR opportunities abound for you. While I'm not sure how much of my experience in the non fiction world will translate effectively to fiction, if you want to shoot me an email from the CP email link, we can kick some things back & forth offline. Always happy to help another creative creature if I'm able.
Christopher Duncan www.PracticalUSA.com Author of The Career Programmer and Unite the Tribes Copywriting Services
I've got some ideas from a ton of web research... The main hurdle is overcoming my introverted personality and actually getting out there and talking to people.
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in? Developer, Author (Guardians of Xen)
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I've got some ideas from a ton of web research... The main hurdle is overcoming my introverted personality and actually getting out there and talking to people.
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in? Developer, Author (Guardians of Xen)
Two words: Booth Babes. :-D
Christopher Duncan www.PracticalUSA.com Author of The Career Programmer and Unite the Tribes Copywriting Services
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You've lost nothing, but the car companies have lost a potential sale. Remember, they put a lot of money into developing the cars... If they can't sell as many, because people are replicating, they can't afford to spend as much on R&D. Either that, or the price of cars will have to go up. It may not harm YOU, if your car is copied, but if this happens on a massive scale, it impacts the industry itself.
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in? Developer, Author (Guardians of Xen)
And since these replicators are on a massive scale, it stands to reason that the car companies are also using them. Which means that their production costs drop by something comparable to the cost of having people replicate their cars themselves. Which means the car companies have to make fewer sales to get the same net profit. Of course, they'll always want MORE profit than they are getting, it's human nature as well as the nature of business - but unless the do-it-yourself replicators are significantly larger in number than the original sales run, the car companies will still have the same cost analysis for doing R&D as they did before. As long as they can expect to pull in more money from the sales run than it cost them to develop and replicate their cars, they'll continue to pour in the money. And there will always be that group of people that will want the latinum-embedded sticker as proof that they got their car from the actual manufacturer.
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If we could replicate the car for free. Someone would make it for free. You really think no one would jump at the chance to make the only car everybody drives? "Where's the motivation if you can't make a profit?" Um, fame? Maybe the fact that everybody is driving the "RagnrocknRoll" Model A. Or maybe the fact that I made the car and I have the best possible knowledge of how it works and so when it breaks down, I can charge more than other folks to fix it? Or any of the dozens of related service industries I can build around my free car. But you folks are right, there aren't any working models of people just handing out their product for free and still making money. Not like Red Hat makes a ton off of training people to use and maintain their OS, or anything like that. Heck, it's not like Radio Head made any money off of their "pay whatever you want" album. And Reznor was a complete fool to do the same. I'm not saying steal everything. I am saying being in the outmoded way of thinking that it must come with an up front cost and there is no way to make a profit if you don't charge is not seeing how things are changing.
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That's just stupid. The fact is that the analogy is flawed because you CAN steal a book or a CD without taking the original, but the person stealing it, gets it full benefit without paying for it. That's why some people are retarded enough to not see that they are stealing.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
No, I think it was an excellent point that illustrated the difference between digital media and something tangible and shows why Christopher’s original analogy was flawed.
Christian Graus wrote:
That's why some people are retarded enough to not see that they are stealing.
If whether or not you are stealing something is not obvious, then I think some thinking has to be done.
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Personally, I think you're a guy trying to instigate. :-D Dang! And here I was hoping I could score some backstage passes... By the way, if you ever do get this business model stuff worked out, I know what your next bestselling book is!
Christopher Duncan www.PracticalUSA.com Author of The Career Programmer and Unite the Tribes Copywriting Services
Trust me, if the business model works I will never have to write a book again. ;)
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No, I think it was an excellent point that illustrated the difference between digital media and something tangible and shows why Christopher’s original analogy was flawed.
Christian Graus wrote:
That's why some people are retarded enough to not see that they are stealing.
If whether or not you are stealing something is not obvious, then I think some thinking has to be done.
Rama Krishna Vavilala wrote:
shows why Christopher’s original analogy was flawed
Exactly.
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Well said, Chris. I'm going much the same route with mine. I chose a publisher that doesn't wrap any DRM into the digital copies of my book... Just a plain old PDF. It might be a little easier for authors than it is for musicians, as readers tend to be of a different demographic than the consumers of popular music... At least for the most part. Oddly, though, I've had a number of people buy my printed book, but only two digital sales... No love for the Kindle/E-Reader/whatever, apparently.
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in? Developer, Author (Guardians of Xen)
Ian Shlasko wrote:
Just a plain old PDF
The PDF of ISO 8601:2004 I bought from the ISO has a watermark -- I could send it around or post it online, but they'd know where it came from. And possibly send the Swiss Army after me. :~
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Trust me, if the business model works I will never have to write a book again. ;)
Just don't forget us little people when you're rich and famous. Or at least rich. :)
Christopher Duncan www.PracticalUSA.com Author of The Career Programmer and Unite the Tribes Copywriting Services
