Kids these days...
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Someone posted a very vague query on the C++ forum , and mentioned that he didn't know why his app doesn't work, and he has no clue about the failure modes. There was no relevant information in his post (no code either) that I could have used to guess any possible cause of the problem. I was pissed; I asked him use the debugger. And... his problem is solved. His reply: "Finally I got the clue ... Sometimes u even forget that u always have debugger to help you out. Thanks for help." What?! That's it? Solved?! :rolleyes: I think we should include a new point into the guidelines for asking a question: "Please remember that you have a debugger". :laugh:
“Follow your bliss.” – Joseph Campbell
Rajesh R Subramanian wrote:
I think we should include a new point into the guidelines for asking a question: "Please remember that you have a debugger brain cell".
FTFY
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Someone posted a very vague query on the C++ forum , and mentioned that he didn't know why his app doesn't work, and he has no clue about the failure modes. There was no relevant information in his post (no code either) that I could have used to guess any possible cause of the problem. I was pissed; I asked him use the debugger. And... his problem is solved. His reply: "Finally I got the clue ... Sometimes u even forget that u always have debugger to help you out. Thanks for help." What?! That's it? Solved?! :rolleyes: I think we should include a new point into the guidelines for asking a question: "Please remember that you have a debugger". :laugh:
“Follow your bliss.” – Joseph Campbell
Debugging seems to be a lost art. Somebody should write an article on effective debugging.
"WPF has many lovers. It's a veritable porn star!" - Josh Smith
As Braveheart once said, "You can take our freedom but you'll never take our Hobnobs!" - Martin Hughes.
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I had that as a sig several months ago, and never was a truer word spoken.
------------------------------------ In science, 'fact' can only mean 'confirmed to such a degree that it would be perverse to withhold provisional assent.' I suppose that apples might start to rise tomorrow, but the possibility does not merit equal time in physics classrooms. Stephen J Gould
Dalek Dave wrote:
I had that as a sig several months ago
I suspect that is probably where I got it from.
Simon
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Someone posted a very vague query on the C++ forum , and mentioned that he didn't know why his app doesn't work, and he has no clue about the failure modes. There was no relevant information in his post (no code either) that I could have used to guess any possible cause of the problem. I was pissed; I asked him use the debugger. And... his problem is solved. His reply: "Finally I got the clue ... Sometimes u even forget that u always have debugger to help you out. Thanks for help." What?! That's it? Solved?! :rolleyes: I think we should include a new point into the guidelines for asking a question: "Please remember that you have a debugger". :laugh:
“Follow your bliss.” – Joseph Campbell
Rajesh R Subramanian wrote:
I think we should include a new point into the guidelines
We could include lots of things in the guidelines, but it seems that too many people never read them. They just post their question/demand/incomprehensible message*, and expect an instant solution. *nothing to do with language skills, as many posters with very poor English seem to write a clear enough description of their problem. [rant]Even worse is the "plz hlp" text speak that so many people believe is normal usage.[/rant]
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Someone posted a very vague query on the C++ forum , and mentioned that he didn't know why his app doesn't work, and he has no clue about the failure modes. There was no relevant information in his post (no code either) that I could have used to guess any possible cause of the problem. I was pissed; I asked him use the debugger. And... his problem is solved. His reply: "Finally I got the clue ... Sometimes u even forget that u always have debugger to help you out. Thanks for help." What?! That's it? Solved?! :rolleyes: I think we should include a new point into the guidelines for asking a question: "Please remember that you have a debugger". :laugh:
“Follow your bliss.” – Joseph Campbell
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Howto use debuggers in school...they only teach programming. That is "on the job" training...
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Debugging seems to be a lost art. Somebody should write an article on effective debugging.
"WPF has many lovers. It's a veritable porn star!" - Josh Smith
As Braveheart once said, "You can take our freedom but you'll never take our Hobnobs!" - Martin Hughes.
F5 Fix Repeat
Ninja (the Nerd)
Confused? You will be... -
F5 Fix Repeat
Ninja (the Nerd)
Confused? You will be...Ninja-the-Nerd wrote:
F5 Fix Repeat
Not quite. F9 F5 Fix Repeat. There, I've effectively debugged your algorithm ;P
"WPF has many lovers. It's a veritable porn star!" - Josh Smith
As Braveheart once said, "You can take our freedom but you'll never take our Hobnobs!" - Martin Hughes.
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Ninja-the-Nerd wrote:
F5 Fix Repeat
Not quite. F9 F5 Fix Repeat. There, I've effectively debugged your algorithm ;P
"WPF has many lovers. It's a veritable porn star!" - Josh Smith
As Braveheart once said, "You can take our freedom but you'll never take our Hobnobs!" - Martin Hughes.
I use C# in vs08, F7 is my build key and F5 builds automatically anyway. What was that about platform-dependent algorithms?
Ninja (the Nerd)
Confused? You will be... -
Depends on the school. We got a few 'projects' which consisted of handing the entire class horrifically failed projects and the instructions 'Fix it'. You learned how to debug fairly quickly, or you failed.
Heh, I just imagined a class, where in the first half of course you debug such faulty projects, then the next half you actually do some programming... ...preparing debug material for next group :laugh:
-- "My software never has bugs. It just develops random features."
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Heh, I just imagined a class, where in the first half of course you debug such faulty projects, then the next half you actually do some programming... ...preparing debug material for next group :laugh:
-- "My software never has bugs. It just develops random features."
Switch the ordering. After the initial programing courses every CS or SE student at RIT was required to take Software Engineering 1. Then, Software Engineering 2 (required for SE, optional for CS) was fixing the worst Software Engineering 1 projects you could scrounge up. Given that the first course was one of the major points of attrition in both degrees, you could find some amazing crap in the pile. Just to honor a tradition formed in the later class, and a duck.
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I use C# in vs08, F7 is my build key and F5 builds automatically anyway. What was that about platform-dependent algorithms?
Ninja (the Nerd)
Confused? You will be...F9 is toggle breakpoint. Hence F9, F5, Fix.
"WPF has many lovers. It's a veritable porn star!" - Josh Smith
As Braveheart once said, "You can take our freedom but you'll never take our Hobnobs!" - Martin Hughes.
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Someone posted a very vague query on the C++ forum , and mentioned that he didn't know why his app doesn't work, and he has no clue about the failure modes. There was no relevant information in his post (no code either) that I could have used to guess any possible cause of the problem. I was pissed; I asked him use the debugger. And... his problem is solved. His reply: "Finally I got the clue ... Sometimes u even forget that u always have debugger to help you out. Thanks for help." What?! That's it? Solved?! :rolleyes: I think we should include a new point into the guidelines for asking a question: "Please remember that you have a debugger". :laugh:
“Follow your bliss.” – Joseph Campbell
Rajesh R Subramanian wrote:
I think we should include a new point into the guidelines for asking a question: "Please remember that you have a debugger".
Maybe his code wasn't buggy (e.g., It works but...), but just wasn't producing the correct answer.
"Old age is like a bank account. You withdraw later in life what you have deposited along the way." - Unknown
"Fireproof doesn't mean the fire will never come. It means when the fire comes that you will be able to withstand it." - Michael Simmons
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Someone posted a very vague query on the C++ forum , and mentioned that he didn't know why his app doesn't work, and he has no clue about the failure modes. There was no relevant information in his post (no code either) that I could have used to guess any possible cause of the problem. I was pissed; I asked him use the debugger. And... his problem is solved. His reply: "Finally I got the clue ... Sometimes u even forget that u always have debugger to help you out. Thanks for help." What?! That's it? Solved?! :rolleyes: I think we should include a new point into the guidelines for asking a question: "Please remember that you have a debugger". :laugh:
“Follow your bliss.” – Joseph Campbell
Trying to make this system idiot proof is like writing a FAQ for your dog that says instead of barking, he should ask nicely "May I bite this cyclist, please?"
Personally, I love the idea that Raymond spends his nights posting bad regexs to mailing lists under the pseudonym of Jane Smith. He'd be like a super hero, only more nerdy and less useful. [Trevel]
| FoldWithUs! | sighist | µLaunch - program launcher for server core and hyper-v server -
Depends on the school. We got a few 'projects' which consisted of handing the entire class horrifically failed projects and the instructions 'Fix it'. You learned how to debug fairly quickly, or you failed.
teaching howto debug and teaching howto use a debugger are completely different things. I graduated in 2002 with a bachelors and never once had an assignment that involved using a debugger. I had tons of assignments where I had to fix non-working programs or simply figure out why something wasn't working but never once did these require the use of an actual debugger. It made me a far better programmer since I don't have to rely on Visual Studio or gdb (or whatever else) to figure out what stupid thing I've told my program to do. Of course, I certainly use debuggers daily to my advantage now, but I was never "taught" how.
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Trying to make this system idiot proof is like writing a FAQ for your dog that says instead of barking, he should ask nicely "May I bite this cyclist, please?"
Personally, I love the idea that Raymond spends his nights posting bad regexs to mailing lists under the pseudonym of Jane Smith. He'd be like a super hero, only more nerdy and less useful. [Trevel]
| FoldWithUs! | sighist | µLaunch - program launcher for server core and hyper-v serverMy comment of adding another point to the guidelines is a humorous note. I know most of them don't read the guidelines anyways. :)
“Follow your bliss.” – Joseph Campbell
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Howto use debuggers in school...they only teach programming. That is "on the job" training...
I was taught in HS quite thoroughly with the turbo pascal debugger. In college I had few pointers with the VC6 debugger from the lab assistant in my CS102 class. For my 1st unix C class the TA advised us that printf > gdb.
3x12=36 2x12=24 1x12=12 0x12=18
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My comment of adding another point to the guidelines is a humorous note. I know most of them don't read the guidelines anyways. :)
“Follow your bliss.” – Joseph Campbell
My critique on your comment of adding another point to the guidelines is a humorous note. I know most of them dogs won't read the FAQ anyways ;)
Personally, I love the idea that Raymond spends his nights posting bad regexs to mailing lists under the pseudonym of Jane Smith. He'd be like a super hero, only more nerdy and less useful. [Trevel]
| FoldWithUs! | sighist | µLaunch - program launcher for server core and hyper-v server -
Rajesh R Subramanian wrote:
I think we should include a new point into the guidelines for asking a question: "Please remember that you have a debugger".
Maybe his code wasn't buggy (e.g., It works but...), but just wasn't producing the correct answer.
"Old age is like a bank account. You withdraw later in life what you have deposited along the way." - Unknown
"Fireproof doesn't mean the fire will never come. It means when the fire comes that you will be able to withstand it." - Michael Simmons
OK, then there's this possibility that he's into Lotus Notes "development" team. :)
“Follow your bliss.” – Joseph Campbell
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teaching howto debug and teaching howto use a debugger are completely different things. I graduated in 2002 with a bachelors and never once had an assignment that involved using a debugger. I had tons of assignments where I had to fix non-working programs or simply figure out why something wasn't working but never once did these require the use of an actual debugger. It made me a far better programmer since I don't have to rely on Visual Studio or gdb (or whatever else) to figure out what stupid thing I've told my program to do. Of course, I certainly use debuggers daily to my advantage now, but I was never "taught" how.
The other day, they very clearly explained a problem to me. A day or two later they asked how it was going, and I explained I was halfway through examining all the source cocde. They thought I was crazy. Oh well...
